- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:39, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
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Maria Grapini
Maria Grapini
... that a review of Maria Grapini's (pictured) book reveals that portions were copied from Wikipedia?https://recorder.ro/maria-grapini-a-scris-un-roman-de-dragoste-cu-pasaje-copiate-de-pe-wikipedia/ALT1:... that mediaSource: http://www.mediafax.ro/life-inedit/grapinizer-aplicatia-online-care-va-corecteaza-textele-dupa-modelul-maria-grapini-14632223 (""Grapinizer.com "corectează" textele după modelul Maria Grapini. [...] Grapini [...] a fost criticată de mai multe ori în presă pentru greşelile gramaticale din postările pe care le-a scris pe reţeaua de socializare.")attentioncriticism of Maria Grapini's (pictured) spelling mistakes inspiredan appa website?
- Comment: Now let's see, the entire article, which I have translated from its native rowiki, has only an unsourced DOB and birthplace and some of the words and grammar were lost in translation but other than that it's completely sourced.
Created by FoxyGrampa75 (talk). Self-nominated at 12:52, 20 July 2019 (UTC).
- This is just a drive-by comment, but while both hooks are interesting, I can't help but feel that both might fall afoul of BLP. Would like to hear second opinions about this matter, though. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:33, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5, I think personally, the original hook might violate BLP. ALT1 would be better, though, because it says that the media attention from her spelling mistakes was the inspiration for an app, not necessarily saying anything negative about her. epicgenius (talk) 00:09, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5 Epicgenius I think the spelling-mistakes hook is indeed the better choice. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 01:29, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
Full review needed now that hook discussion has concluded. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:10, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
Article is new enough, long enough, adequately sourced, with the facts for both hook facts being cited inline. I am assuming good faith for the Romanian-language sources. Nominator has no prior DYK credits so a QPQ is not required at this time. Consensus in this discussion appears to favor ALT1, but just to make sure that BLP concerns won't be raised at some point, I'll be asking BlueMoonset for their thoughts on this matter. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 08:18, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
Narutolovehinata5, I'm not the best person to ask where the line is for potential BLP issues in hooks, especially as regards ALT1 (the original hook was clearly a problem, so I've struck it). I do not see that ALT1's assertion of the media attention is supported by the source that mentions the Grapinizer, which merely describes how the app works when I look at it using Google Translate, so the sourcing needs work if ALT1 is okay to use from a BLP standpoint. However, the article itself needs a good copyedit before it's ready to be featured on the main page; there are a number of places where I don't understand what happened or where clearly the wrong word has been used. Perhaps a request should be made at the Guild of Copy Editors request page. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:23, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- @BlueMoonset: The source (when translated) says "criticized several times in the press", but it didn't look neutral enough, so I used "media attention". I'll try to make some adjustments and another alt-hook. And yes, I took it to WP:GOCER. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 15:34, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- @BlueMoonset and Narutolovehinata5: Copywriting done. Anything else? FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 20:24, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- Technically, ALT1 is not yet suitable because the reference that verifies it does not appear at the exact sentence mentioning the fact, but rather at the one that comes after. Per the rules, a footnote or footnotes should be provided in all sentences where facts are mentioned, even if this is not normally required outside of DYK. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 09:12, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: I have added the footnote to the fact. Now what? FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 18:40, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
- If the reference has been added, then ALT1 should technically now be suitable; however, due to BLP concerns I'm only willing to approve it if other editors are satisfied with it (i.e. don't think it's unduly negative). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:11, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
- Technically, ALT1 is not yet suitable because the reference that verifies it does not appear at the exact sentence mentioning the fact, but rather at the one that comes after. Per the rules, a footnote or footnotes should be provided in all sentences where facts are mentioned, even if this is not normally required outside of DYK. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 09:12, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
- Requesting a second opinion on ALT1's suitability and opinions on whether or not it is BLP-compliant. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 04:33, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
- I have just changed "grammatical mistakes" in the article to "spelling and punctuation mistakes", which is what the source says the app inserts into text. I do have concerns about ALT1, though - the source does seem to be making fun of her. The translated article starts "Grapinizer, the online application that "corrects" your texts according to the Maria Grapini model. The online application, called Grapinizer, gives users the opportunity to enter a correct grammatical text in a box in Romanian, and then, using the "Grapinize" option, to see what the text looks like in the grapinized version. ... Thus, the online application adds pointless commas, changes the order of the letters in words, and removes the space after punctuation." And it does say she "has been criticized several times in the press for the grammatical errors in the posts she wrote on the social network" (a fost criticată de mai multe ori în presă pentru greşelile gramaticale din postările pe care le-a scris pe reţeaua de socializare.) That's not just attention. Without examples, and without knowing Romanian, it's hard to be sure, but difficulty with spelling can be a symptom of dyslexia. If there are aspects of her writing that show "grammatical errors" other than punctuation and spelling, as a linguist, I would tend to think of dialect differences rather than "errors" - but either way, the attention seems to be negative, and not something to focus on. Personally, I don't think it's appropriate as a hook - I would compare it to using Trump's covfefe, Pauline Hanson's "please explain?" or George W Bush's "nucular" as hooks. They're mentioned in articles, but as far as I know, have not been put on the main page. RebeccaGreen (talk) 10:58, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
- Not reviewing, but a quick comment from a Romanian speaker. As much as dislike Mrs Grapini's politics, the hook is in poor taste and infringes on the BLP requirement (the article could probably be toned down as well). The issue, however, is not dialectal variation, and it's anyone's guess if it is dyslexia; Mrs Grapini makes systematic errors in spelling between words that sound the same in the same variety of Romanian, but are not spelled the same, or fails to inflect the words based on universal rules (uses verbs in the singular for the plural, which is an absolute shibboleth in Romanian); her punctuation is off to where it shows she doesn't quite grasp the inherent grammatical structure (like marking subordinate clauses with a comma, but without adding another comma as they end -- not that big a deal in English, but the sort of rule which, in Romanian, would see children getting a failing grade on their papers). She also uses â instead of î in compound words, etc. etc. She produces a phraseology that barely makes sense in any language: Neâncrederea, lipsa de informaţii, manipularea, lipsa de multe ori de cultură au domnit ani mulţi şi asta a făcut ca furia, şi dorinţa de blamare globală fără analiză cu discernământ să se dezvolte; "Lack of trust, lack of information, manipulation, lack of many times culture have ruled for many years and this is what has made anger, and the wish to blame globally without analysis with discernment to develop" (my translation). Dahn (talk) 07:59, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
- @FoxyGrampa75: As several editors think that the ALT1 hook is not BLP-compliant, I have struck that hook too. Would you like to suggest another? And perhaps also work on the article a bit, as per Dahn's comment just above that "the article could probably be toned down as well"? RebeccaGreen (talk) 20:18, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
- @RebeccaGreen: I'll try to do that and/or look for sources for one tomorrow. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 03:18, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
- Not reviewing, but a quick comment from a Romanian speaker. As much as dislike Mrs Grapini's politics, the hook is in poor taste and infringes on the BLP requirement (the article could probably be toned down as well). The issue, however, is not dialectal variation, and it's anyone's guess if it is dyslexia; Mrs Grapini makes systematic errors in spelling between words that sound the same in the same variety of Romanian, but are not spelled the same, or fails to inflect the words based on universal rules (uses verbs in the singular for the plural, which is an absolute shibboleth in Romanian); her punctuation is off to where it shows she doesn't quite grasp the inherent grammatical structure (like marking subordinate clauses with a comma, but without adding another comma as they end -- not that big a deal in English, but the sort of rule which, in Romanian, would see children getting a failing grade on their papers). She also uses â instead of î in compound words, etc. etc. She produces a phraseology that barely makes sense in any language: Neâncrederea, lipsa de informaţii, manipularea, lipsa de multe ori de cultură au domnit ani mulţi şi asta a făcut ca furia, şi dorinţa de blamare globală fără analiză cu discernământ să se dezvolte; "Lack of trust, lack of information, manipulation, lack of many times culture have ruled for many years and this is what has made anger, and the wish to blame globally without analysis with discernment to develop" (my translation). Dahn (talk) 07:59, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
- I have just changed "grammatical mistakes" in the article to "spelling and punctuation mistakes", which is what the source says the app inserts into text. I do have concerns about ALT1, though - the source does seem to be making fun of her. The translated article starts "Grapinizer, the online application that "corrects" your texts according to the Maria Grapini model. The online application, called Grapinizer, gives users the opportunity to enter a correct grammatical text in a box in Romanian, and then, using the "Grapinize" option, to see what the text looks like in the grapinized version. ... Thus, the online application adds pointless commas, changes the order of the letters in words, and removes the space after punctuation." And it does say she "has been criticized several times in the press for the grammatical errors in the posts she wrote on the social network" (a fost criticată de mai multe ori în presă pentru greşelile gramaticale din postările pe care le-a scris pe reţeaua de socializare.) That's not just attention. Without examples, and without knowing Romanian, it's hard to be sure, but difficulty with spelling can be a symptom of dyslexia. If there are aspects of her writing that show "grammatical errors" other than punctuation and spelling, as a linguist, I would tend to think of dialect differences rather than "errors" - but either way, the attention seems to be negative, and not something to focus on. Personally, I don't think it's appropriate as a hook - I would compare it to using Trump's covfefe, Pauline Hanson's "please explain?" or George W Bush's "nucular" as hooks. They're mentioned in articles, but as far as I know, have not been put on the main page. RebeccaGreen (talk) 10:58, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
- @RebeccaGreen: Good news. I think this one [1] (in Romanian) may be a good source for a good hook. I'd check now, but I gotta go get some sleep. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 03:43, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
- @FoxyGrampa75: Just wondering if you want to work on this article and suggest another hook, or let the DYK lapse? As noted above, several editors have some concerns about BLP issues and NPOV in the article, as well as in the previous hooks, which would need to be addressed before the article can appear on the main page. Cheers, RebeccaGreen (talk) 00:14, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
- @RebeccaGreen: Thanks. I've realized that the subject might be a little too problematic, so I've decided to withdraw this one. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 00:37, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
No worries, as I've seen other editors say, not all articles are suitable for DYK, for various reasons. Cheers, RebeccaGreen (talk) 00:48, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
