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Template:Did you know nominations/Lithuania women's national basketball team

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Victuallers (talk) 17:16, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

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Lithuania women's national basketball team edit

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The LFLS, Moterų Sporto Mėgėjų Ratelis (MSMR) and Aušra gymnasium representatives in 1923. These women were the first basketball players in Lithuania.

5x expanded by Pofka (talk). Self nominated at 13:44, 8 March 2015 (UTC).

  • The expansion started on February 28, so I moved this nomination accordingly. The nomination is eight days apart and one day over the seven-day limit. Nevertheless, I hope this nomination is approved by someone else. George Ho (talk) 20:49, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
  • I don't see in the article where is says that the first Lithuanian basketball players were women. I also don't see where it says the first official game was by men. Am I missing something? Please provide the relevant quotes. Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 08:34, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Firstly I provided two articles by nominating it. It is written in the Lithuania men's national basketball team article, "Interwar period (1920–1940)" section. These players (pictured) are the ones who played that game. -- Pofka (talk) 08:42, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • DYK rules require that the hook be cited in the article being nominated.—Bagumba (talk) 09:06, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Added the same line from the men's article into the women's one. -- Pofka (talk) 09:59, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
  • @Pofka and George Ho: Whatever happened with this one? If it can be ready in time, it would be a good one for Women's History Month. I see that the hook is now included in the nominated article, but the cited source is not online. The text still needs a little editing IMO. I've made a few trivial edits (like adding "the" where needed), but there are still issues. For example, what does "The first basketball repercussions reached Lithuania" mean, exactly? Maybe "Basketball first came to Lithuania"?
Also, this sentence is not clear: Despite the fact that women started playing basketball in Lithuania, the first official game was played by men. Do you mean that women started playing basketball in Lithuania before men did? Or does it mean that both women and men had been playing basketball in Lithuania for some time before the first official game was played by men? --Rosekelleher (talk) 17:55, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Also, the article does not support the hook that these first players were professional. Additionally, not sure if a hook about the women's article should end with the women being upstaged by men. Having a picture of men for the hook does not seem appropriate either.—Bagumba (talk) 19:00, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Is this an online version of the Krepšinio kelias į Lietuvą source? Not sure if it is a WP:COPYVIO or not and suitable for linking in the article. It looks like this book is the source of some of the pictures in the article.—Bagumba (talk) 19:00, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
  • It seems there are a lot of questions... Okey, let's try to sort it out.
  • @Rosekelleher:The source of this information is online. "The first basketball repercussions reached Lithuania" was translated word-to-word from the Lithuanian language. It is clear in our language. The meaning of it really is the same as you said: "Basketball first came to Lithuania", but I think it sounds too primitively this way.
Exactly. Women started playing before men, but the first official game was played by men. You can play something in your yard, but it doesn't make it official game. The reason of this is that it wasn't the Naismith's basketball, but the German (Dutch) variant with smaller ball, etc (nowadays women's variant of basketball) and at first it doesn't seemed appropriate for men. It seems somebody messed up the hook I wrote. These women were NOT professionals at that time because they were not playing the official games. Originally, I wrote "first basketball PLAYERS were women", not "first PROFESSIONAL PLAYERS". This needs to be restored as it was previously.
  • @Bagumba:That's because somebody messed up the hook. If they didn't played the OFFICIAL games, they were not professionals. These women just heard about basketball from somewhere and started playing it together in amateur level. Then men saw that it really is a decent game and started playing it later as well. Men played first official game and they were the first professional basketball players in Lithuania. But the Lithuanian basketball origin is from women because they played it in the amateur level before men. Women being first basketball players in country doesn't seem upstaged for me, even if it is in amateur level because they still played basketball before men in our country. This photo might be used instead. These were the first women playing basketball in Lithuania. I used men photo instead supporting the "...but the first official game was played by men" part. Probably it really should be replaced.
I have been using this for my edits. It is a small free demo version provided in the official publisher website. Knyguklubas.lt is a online library version of Alma littera. Check out the numeration of the pages in it (begins with the 14th page and so on). Many of them are omitted because it is a demo version. Yet it is still very useful because some rare information is perfectly described.
-- Pofka (talk) 08:36, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
  • I have removed the word "professional" from the hook—the person who added it clearly didn't understand the article, which doesn't even use the word "professional"—but the article needs a thorough copyedit before it can be approved for the main page. (The phrase mentioned earlier, "The first basketball repercussions reached Lithuania", is one of those that needs fixing.) I suggest you put in a request at the Guild of Copyeditors. According to DYKcheck, the article qualifies as a 5x expansion and was nominated on time. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:57, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
  • @BlueMoonset: Replaced word "repercussions" with "reverberations". Google Translate often is a dull thing. Only now I found out that this word is used to express a negative effect. "Reverberations" seems neutral, though describing the exact same thing (just not negatively). What else seems problematic to you? -- Pofka (talk) 07:49, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Pofka, I have copyedited the first two paragraphs of the History section (and fixed a photo caption) as an example of what I was hoping a thorough copyedit such as the guild does would provide. There are missing words and other grammatical issues, along with phrases that I thought could be improved (such as the one I initially mentioned). Also, Google Translation should be used with care: not only may the words it chooses be far from ideal, but using a direct translation of original passages is not allowed under Wikipedia rules unless it's quoted. The other big problem with the article as it now stands is that it needs far more inline source citations. At the moment, only three of the paragraphs have any references at all. The DYK rule of thumb is one citation per paragraph, but for the hook, the inline citation needs to be at the end of each sentence with a hook fact in it. So to support the hook for this nomination, there needs to be an inline source citation at the end of the sentence that begins "Despite the fact that women started playing basketball in Lithuania before men did". Finally, the picture that is included in this nomination is not eligible because it does not appear in the nominated article; perhaps a photo of the women the article is about? BlueMoonset (talk) 11:46, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Pofka would you consider adding sources to every single paragraph under History? OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 09:32, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

  • @BlueMoonset: @OccultZone:  Done. References were added into the history section and I have also replaced picture in this hook. These women are from the same period. -- Pofka (talk) 13:06, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Mind that I had asked you to put references to every paragraph. It includes other paragraphs as well, currently there are no references for "The best Lithuanian players...", "At the third World...", "In EuroBasket 2007, the...", "In 2007, a sculpture.." OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 13:46, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
@OccultZone:  Done. It seems I just missed a few lines. Though, there is no reference for "The best Lithuanian players..." because it is written just by simply calculating their achievements. -- Pofka (talk) 14:29, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
Would you consider removing that paragraph for now? Remember that DYK is a milestone, and there is a need of quality, every claim should be backed with a reliable source. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 14:56, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
@OccultZone:  Done. I took this line from the Lithuanian Wikipedia and just found out that it was based on the Lithuanian Sport Encyclopedia article about basketball. Added reference to this LSE article. -- Pofka (talk) 15:36, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for prompt measures. I will be back to you in a few hours. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 15:39, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

I would pass . OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 07:01, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

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