- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: rejected by BlueMoonset (talk) 16:22, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
The article is not eligible for DYK, as it has appeared half a dozen times on the main page as a bolded full listing at On this day, most recently on January 29, 2017.
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Liliuokalani edit
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Queen Liliuokalani
- ... that when Queen Liliuokalani (pictured) died on November 11, 1917, her body was not moved from her home until after dark, in keeping with Hawaiian tradition of transporting deceased royalty?
"The body will be taken to Kawaiahao Church tonight about midnight ... It is a custom of Hawaiians not to move the bodies of their royal dead from one place to another except at night."1 Body of Queen Will Be Moved At Midnight: In State Tomorrow
- Reviewed: Train Track Park (Jerusalem)
- Comment: We are hoping to have this run on November 11, the centennial anniversary of her death. KAVEBEAR and Mark Miller might want to offer ALT hooks.
Improved to Good Article status by Mark Miller (talk), KAVEBEAR (talk), and Maile66 (talk). Nominated by Maile66 (talk) at 23:31, 8 October 2017 (UTC).
Substantial GA on plenty of good sources, no copyvio obvious. - The image is licensed, but I'd expect the other on to show better in small size. - I am not happy with the hook, sorry. Yes, we commemorate her anniversary of death, but couldn't we say something about what made her great (compose, represent for the Golden Jubilee, - pick somthing, also to match the image better). - Article: I don't think we need "American" twice in 2 sentences beginning "Religious beliefs". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:25, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
- You need to be more specific. What "other"? The infobox image? I put a different one in there after this DYK nomination was created. This article is currently at FAC, so feel free to contribute there - we could probably use your input. Well, I'm happy with the hook, because the Hawaiian tradition of not moving deceased royals except at night is somewhat unique. You know ... people might click on it. I actually did a separate article on her death and funeral, because I thought everything around it was so unique. However, I would like @KAVEBEAR and Mark Miller: and even you, Gerda, to offer some ALTs. I think we're all open to different ideas on a hook . — Maile (talk) 17:33, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
- KAVEBEAR corrected the second "American" you mention above. — Maile (talk) 17:51, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you, both. I mean this image. If I word a hook, I can't approve it ;) - If you three agree that the hook is perfect, I will approve it, of course, even if I think it would be a good one for the extra article ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:25, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
- KAVEBEAR corrected the second "American" you mention above. — Maile (talk) 17:51, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
- You need to be more specific. What "other"? The infobox image? I put a different one in there after this DYK nomination was created. This article is currently at FAC, so feel free to contribute there - we could probably use your input. Well, I'm happy with the hook, because the Hawaiian tradition of not moving deceased royals except at night is somewhat unique. You know ... people might click on it. I actually did a separate article on her death and funeral, because I thought everything around it was so unique. However, I would like @KAVEBEAR and Mark Miller: and even you, Gerda, to offer some ALTs. I think we're all open to different ideas on a hook . — Maile (talk) 17:33, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
- ALT1
...that when Queen Liliuokalani died on at her home, Washington Place (that now serves as the Hawaii State Governor's Mansion), that her body was not moved until night, in keeping with Hawaiian tradition?--Mark Miller (talk) 00:30, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
- .
I'd also like to second the suggestion by Gerda Arendt for the reasons given as well as that the young image might be better for a DYK involving her birth or early life and the older image is from her brother's coronation.::--Mark Miller (talk) 00:35, 10 October 2017 (UTC)- The image is from her 1898 residence in DC not her brother's coronation. (Source: John Roy Musick (1898). Hawaii, Our New Possessions. Funk & Wagnalls. p. 348.)--KAVEBEAR (talk) 00:50, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
- Demonstrate that please or your comment is opinion. Seriously.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:48, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- The image is from her 1898 residence in DC not her brother's coronation. (Source: John Roy Musick (1898). Hawaii, Our New Possessions. Funk & Wagnalls. p. 348.)--KAVEBEAR (talk) 00:50, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
Image has been swapped, so that issue is resolved. Per DYK rules on the image: Wikipedia:DYKIMG "3. It must already be in the article". — Maile (talk) 12:21, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
- Striking ALT1, since it uses a parenthetical comments, something not allowed with DYK hooks (except for the "(pictured)" in lead hooks; see WP:DYKSG#C9). BlueMoonset (talk) 04:14, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- OK, since there was no attempt to save that, I will make no attempt to save this. I am against this entire DYK and am prepared to request further comment from projects. Using DYK as an attempt to change long standing images is just wrong. I really think that it should have been mentioned when the image was suggested what would happen. Since I have too much good faith in Gerda. I have to conclude that this article is not ready for DYK or FA.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:47, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Maile66 Mark Miller Stop. I do not think Maile is "Using DYK as an attempt to change long standing images". Maile has indicate they are willing to go by the majority and also have the DYK image be a non-infobox image. Can you agree on a compromise to continuing using the old image, add the DYK image by Prince to the body and use it for this DYK instead?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 12:56, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- OK, since there was no attempt to save that, I will make no attempt to save this. I am against this entire DYK and am prepared to request further comment from projects. Using DYK as an attempt to change long standing images is just wrong. I really think that it should have been mentioned when the image was suggested what would happen. Since I have too much good faith in Gerda. I have to conclude that this article is not ready for DYK or FA.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:47, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Striking ALT1, since it uses a parenthetical comments, something not allowed with DYK hooks (except for the "(pictured)" in lead hooks; see WP:DYKSG#C9). BlueMoonset (talk) 04:14, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Starting over. I said I didn't think the youthful image was suitable to match the original hook. That didn't imply anything for the article. It could have stayed the lead image there, with the other somewhere later where it fits the context, or it could have stayed even for DYK, with a hook to match. The placement of pics in the article should be discussed on the article talk. This DYK nomination is not ready to be approved today, but we still have a month to find something we can agree on. The article is ready. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:22, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- ALT2 ... that Queen Liliuokalani (pictured) instructed Bina Mossman's Glee Club in Hawaiian language enunciation when they rehearsed in her royal Washington Place residence? We held many of our early rehearsals at Washington Place, Queen Liliuokalani's home on Beretania Street, which became the Governor's Mansion sometime after her death. The Queen helped us with the correct enunciation of Hawaiian words.1 How's this one @Gerda Arendt and KAVEBEAR:? — Maile (talk) 00:59, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
- I like that one, what do others think? - This is your chance to make more things known about her on a highly visited page ;) - For the Main page: please link Hawaiian, - and do reader know glee club? (I didn't) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:21, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
- ALT3 ... that when Queen Liliuokalani (pictured) designated a portion of her estate to benefit Hawaii's orphaned and destitute children, Prince Jonah Kūhiō Kalanianaʻole filed a lawsuit challenging her competence?...trustees would use the rest of the trust's income to benefit orphan and indigent children, with preference given to Hawaiians of pure or part aboriginal blood. The bitter legal disputes that surrounded the queen's personal estate began in 1910 ... Those closest to her, including Kuhio, would even call into question the queen's competence. 1
- @Gerda Arendt: Here's another one. — Maile (talk) 21:56, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
- I like that also, it's more substantial in a way, but while the other said Hawaiian, this will need a hint. You could pipe the nephew to his rather long name, to win space for that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:13, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
- I took out the nephew part, because it's complicated. He was the adopted son of Kalakaua's wife Kapiolani, but Kapiolani was genetically his aunt. — Maile (talk) 22:19, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
- Understand, but how about Hawaii? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:23, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
- Not sure what you were getting at about "Hawaiian", but editing it guessing on what you meant. Aren't we having fun here? — Maile (talk) 22:34, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
We do ;) - For now, we have three approved hooks, but I will keep watching. My choice would be ALT3. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:57, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
- Not sure what you were getting at about "Hawaiian", but editing it guessing on what you meant. Aren't we having fun here? — Maile (talk) 22:34, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
- Understand, but how about Hawaii? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:23, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
- I took out the nephew part, because it's complicated. He was the adopted son of Kalakaua's wife Kapiolani, but Kapiolani was genetically his aunt. — Maile (talk) 22:19, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
- I like that also, it's more substantial in a way, but while the other said Hawaiian, this will need a hint. You could pipe the nephew to his rather long name, to win space for that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:13, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
- I like this one as well (there is so much about Hawaiian Queens that I do not know!). Quick question regarding eligibility: it looks like something from this article has appeared on the main page five times in bold linked text for two different anniversary dates (see Jan. 17, 2007 & 2010, as well as Jan. 29, 2011, 2014, & 2017). I am guessing that it meets the DYK "New" criterion by virtue of 1g, recent Good Article status, but wasn't able to tell from a quick look at the revision history when it achieved that. Was it recent? Anyone know? KDS4444 (talk) 04:25, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
Unfortunately, KDS4444, the article is not eligible, as you have pointed out, since it has appeared multiple times at On this day, the most recent on January 29 of this year. As it says at WP:DYK, Articles that have featured (bold link) previously on DYK, or in a blurb on the main page's In the news, or On this day sections are ineligible.
This means newly expanded articles and newly listed Good Articles cannot run as DYKs if they've previously appeared as a main/bold link at OTD or ITN. Sorry for the bad news, Mark Miller, KAVEBEAR, Maile66, and Gerda Arendt. I think, though, that it will probably run again on OTD in two or three years, based on past experience. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:57, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
- I am so shocked that I almost typed "below this line". As if someone told me that an article about the reformation can't appear because its FA and OTD. (Regarding the image, I heard that already.) Maile, you said you have an article about the burial? Bring that here, and let me know, to review. My experience tells me, that any link in the DYK section receives attention, bold or not. - What happened to WP:IAR, btw?
- After a bit of recovery: the suggestion was bad, because that article is "not new enough" by now. But there are many red links which you can create, - one of them will be worthy of DYK, no? And then let the readers wonder why her doctor is bold and she is not. Teh rules. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:12, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
- Well, now ... @Gerda Arendt and KAVEBEAR: Death and state funeral of Liliuokalani was created February 4, 2017. And I don't see it making its way through the clogged GAC in time. Thanks for your efforts, however. — Maile (talk) 11:20, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
- That's what I said "after a bit of recovery", no? - But you could create a new article about her doctor, - or one of the other red links. Or ask for mercy (IAR) in an unusual situation. I hate asking for mercy ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:00, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
- Well, now ... @Gerda Arendt and KAVEBEAR: Death and state funeral of Liliuokalani was created February 4, 2017. And I don't see it making its way through the clogged GAC in time. Thanks for your efforts, however. — Maile (talk) 11:20, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Here's another one. — Maile (talk) 21:56, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
- @BlueMoonset, Gerda Arendt, and KAVEBEAR: Joseph O. Carter was created October 7, 2017. That's 21 days instead of 7. I'm not the kind of editor who whips up an article in a few days. BlueMoonset, what is your opinion on the Carter article getting IAR? — Maile (talk) 12:14, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
- I thought I saw a red link, but well, was to upset perhaps. There are five red links in the article, such as Eveline Townsend Wilson, and you can create more, such a piece of music she composed, a place where she lived ... - "A few days" is still two weeks! I wrote an article yesterday, and it's more or less approved. Come on. Or ask for IAR about showing HER. I'd support it, for a centenary. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:33, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
- The red links you see are red for a reason. We've been searching for more than a year trying to find enough resources to work those up to articles. So far, not enough sourcing to get them up to the bare minimum of 1500 characters of readable prose. We have more than one list where we're in constant search of resources to create articles related to Liliuokalani. — Maile (talk) 14:14, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
- KAVEBEAR You are the one who requested this be put up for DYK. It would be good if you had at least some comment here before the template is closed out. — Maile (talk) 20:04, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
- Made Template:Did you know nominations/William Cotton Hobdy. See if there is anything that can be hookier and still related to the queen.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:02, 28 October 2017 (UTC)