Template:Did you know nominations/Kelly M. Quintanilla
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:42, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
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Kelly M. Quintanilla edit
- ... that Kelly M. Quintanilla, the first female president of Texas A&M University–Corpus Christi, is a first-generation college student? Source: "she is the first female president of the university [...] In 1989, she became the first person in her family to attend university, graduating from the University of Pittsburgh as a first-generation college student." (source)
- ALT1 ... that Kelly M. Quintanilla, the first female president of Texas A&M University–Corpus Christi, is the first person in her family to attend university? Source: "she is the first female president of the university [...] In 1989, she became the first person in her family to attend university, graduating from the University of Pittsburgh as a first-generation college student." (source)
- Reviewed: This is my second DYK nom; however, Template:Did you know nominations/Seána Kerslake
Created by Originalmess (talk). Self-nominated at 04:24, 8 July 2018 (UTC).
@Originalmess: Full review to follow, but a new hook may need to be proposed here, since many people (such as myself) probably don't know what "first-generation college student" means. Perhaps we can just focus on her being the first female president of Texas A&M Corpus Christi? That by itself is pretty hooky if you ask me. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:44, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, I created an alt hook to clarify. Thanks, originalmesshow u doin that busta rhyme? 15:39, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
- Unfortunately I don't think ALT1 is really that interesting either: remember that in the United States, as most people don't go to college, statistically being the first in the family to go to college is not really that unusual. Even within the United States and elsewhere, it's probably not uncommon. With that said, the suggestion, again, is to simply focus on her being the first female president of that university. That by itself seems attention-grabbing, more than her being the first in her family to go to college. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 20:51, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
- Hmmm I think the context makes it more interesting - it brings contrast. The combination is what makes it unusual; academia is hard to break into, especially for first-generation students who are 14% more likely not to graduate at all compared to traditional students. First-generation college students in the United States also are less likely to obtain postgrad degrees (as stated in the article) which are usually required for academia and administrative positions. This is relatively common knowledge in the US, so I apologize if it's not global enough, but I'm surprised it's not similar in other countries! Although our tuition rates are ... unique. Tl;dr First generation students often don't feel comfortable at universities; now she's running one. originalmesshow u doin that busta rhyme? 05:22, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
- Still. It may be interesting to U.S. readers (who, to be fair, make up a significant portion of Wikipedia's readership), but it's less so for people from other countries, particularly developing ones. Remember that the U.S. is not the world, and what is common or rare in the U.S. may not be so elsewhere. As such, I'm afraid I have to reject ALT0. Please suggest other hooks here. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:47, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
- How is this:
ALT2: ... that Kelly M. Quintanilla, the first person in her family to attend university, became the first female president of Texas A&M University–Corpus Christi? - for more chronology. I agree with the nominator that it's a greater achievement than coming from a family where academic training was the rule, - US or not. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:10, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry, but I still don't think it should be part of the hook. It's not really uncommon, particularly for developing countries. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 07:19, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Afaik, it's no requirement for the hook to be uncommon. For me, it adds background about the person, which I welcome. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:40, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Let's face it, being the first in the family to go to college, while a good thing and very much welcome, is not hooky in the context of DYK. But being the first female in a position is. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:59, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- As if anybody didn't agree? Why not say both? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:11, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- Readers outside of America don't really care if you're the first to go to college in the family, because either not going to college is the norm, or going to college is the norm. Even if it later leads to you to eventually leading a university. I'd presume it's commonplace in places where higher education is less common. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:20, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- You said that before, and I understood. Why not cater to the others as well? If the hook was too long, I'd understand, but it isn't. - When I review, I see many hooks which I'd word differently, but if the author has good reasons, I approve. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:23, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- Readers outside of America don't really care if you're the first to go to college in the family, because either not going to college is the norm, or going to college is the norm. Even if it later leads to you to eventually leading a university. I'd presume it's commonplace in places where higher education is less common. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:20, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- As if anybody didn't agree? Why not say both? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:11, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- Let's face it, being the first in the family to go to college, while a good thing and very much welcome, is not hooky in the context of DYK. But being the first female in a position is. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:59, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- Afaik, it's no requirement for the hook to be uncommon. For me, it adds background about the person, which I welcome. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:40, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry, but I still don't think it should be part of the hook. It's not really uncommon, particularly for developing countries. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 07:19, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Still. It may be interesting to U.S. readers (who, to be fair, make up a significant portion of Wikipedia's readership), but it's less so for people from other countries, particularly developing ones. Remember that the U.S. is not the world, and what is common or rare in the U.S. may not be so elsewhere. As such, I'm afraid I have to reject ALT0. Please suggest other hooks here. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:47, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
- Hmmm I think the context makes it more interesting - it brings contrast. The combination is what makes it unusual; academia is hard to break into, especially for first-generation students who are 14% more likely not to graduate at all compared to traditional students. First-generation college students in the United States also are less likely to obtain postgrad degrees (as stated in the article) which are usually required for academia and administrative positions. This is relatively common knowledge in the US, so I apologize if it's not global enough, but I'm surprised it's not similar in other countries! Although our tuition rates are ... unique. Tl;dr First generation students often don't feel comfortable at universities; now she's running one. originalmesshow u doin that busta rhyme? 05:22, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
- Unfortunately I don't think ALT1 is really that interesting either: remember that in the United States, as most people don't go to college, statistically being the first in the family to go to college is not really that unusual. Even within the United States and elsewhere, it's probably not uncommon. With that said, the suggestion, again, is to simply focus on her being the first female president of that university. That by itself seems attention-grabbing, more than her being the first in her family to go to college. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 20:51, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
It seems we've hit an impasse on the hook wording, so I'll leave the review of that to another reviewer. As for the technical requirements, all of them are met (newness, length, sourcing, paraphrasing). Although the nominator provided a QPQ, this is only their second nomination so it was optional. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:29, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- ALT2 is interesting, cited, and reflected in the article. Pass. It's certainly interesting that she's a first-generation college student, because research has shown that first-gen students face many obstacles in academia, certainly in the US and I suspect elsewhere. Catrìona (talk) 14:54, 29 July 2018 (UTC)