- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:46, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
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Drift whale edit
... that the Drift whale means "wind-fall" in Icelandic?Source: "The meaning of the word “drift-whale” in Icelandic, “hvalreki,” has the same meaning as “wind-fall” – an unexpected good incurred at no cost." Icelandic whaling is a relic of a past some (but ever fewer) Icelanders cannot let go of at Sigrún Davíðsdóttir's Icelog- ALT1:
... that anthropologists classified Drift whales as a gathered resource, rather than a product of hunting?Source: Yurok Marriages
- ALT1:
Created by Carbon Caryatid (talk) and 7&6=thirteen (talk). Nominated by 7&6=thirteen (talk) at 17:35, 13 May 2018 (UTC). 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:35, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
This interesting article is long enough and new enough. The article is neutral and I detected no copyright issues. Although either of the suggested hooks could be used, I do not care for them much. What about a hook relating to a drift whale bursting, or one about the botulism that affected the Bering Sea fishing villagers who consumed parts of a drift whale? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:09, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
- Although I created the article, I had nothing to do with the DYK, so I'm not necessarily attached to either of the original proposals. I do object to Cwmhiraeth's alternatives, though, as unduly sensationalist. I would prefer the DYK hook to reflect the tone of the article, which is generalist and scholarly, I think. If I am wrong, and the purpose of the hook is solely to attract eyeballs and clicks, then we can follow the journalist's mantra, "If it bleeds, it leads", and tempt the reader with explosions and near-death experiences. However, I'd rather use a hook that speaks to the main thrust of the article, which at the moment (I still have material I'm working on) is anthropological and historic. So yes, with tweaks:
- ALT3:
... that anthropologists classify drift whales as a gathered resource, rather than a product of hunting, because the gifts of meat and blubber come without risk?Source: Yurok Marriages
- Or for something completely different:
- ALT4:
...that the skills learned from processing drift whales on the beach may have led to hunting live ones on the ocean?Source: Whale Hunting and the Makah Tribe: A Need Assessment
- Carbon Caryatid (talk) 12:14, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
I don't want to force you into a sensationalist hook if you would prefer something else, so I am giving a tick to all four hooks. However, I can't say I am impressed by the "gathered resource" hooks, because collecting or using something washed up by the sea is so obviously a gathered resource, like collecting seaweed for fertiliser or driftwood for fuel. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:42, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, I came by to promote ALT4, but it needs an inline cite in the article. Otherwise it looks like an OR statement, supported by two facts. (Personally, I think you have so many facts in the article that you could do better with the hook.) Yoninah (talk) 22:21, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
- I have re-read the sources and added (inelegantly) the reference from one example sentence to the paragraph's lead sentence, which was then adapted to become ALT4. Thank you for saying that the article has a lot of facts; that's always good to hear. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 15:36, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
- Carbon Caryatid (talk) 12:14, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
Yoninah, I am going to unstrike the original and alternate hook, as they are suported by cited sources and (I thought) perfectly fine. They were approved hooks,. I struck thenm only to plate the original reviewer, and that was my error. Can we go with one of those? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:04, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
- Well, the original reviewer nixed ALT1, and ALT0 is really not hooky without saying more about what a drift whale is. I could suggest other hooks, but not today as I'm really tired. Yoninah (talk) 19:58, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
- Here are some new alts with images:
Flensing a whale at Neah Bay, Washington, 1910
- ALT5: ... that the Icelandic word for "drift whale" translates as "windfall", since the washed-up carcass provides meat, blubber, fat, and other benefits to the finders (pictured)?
- ALT6:
... that the carcasses of humpback (pictured), fin, sperm, right, and pilot whales are most likely to drift ashore rather than remain at sea?Yoninah (talk) 19:04, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
- Approving ALT5 which is interesting and cited inline. The image that goes with it is also interesting. Not approving ALT6 because the whales mentioned there are examples given for one particular locality, New England. Good to go. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 17:34, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
- Hello, I came to promote this, but ALT5 is a bit confusing: the hook says that the Icelandic word for drift whales translates to "wind-fall" because of what's mentioned in the hook fact, but the article itself does not make this direct connection; if anything, the article says that the reason for the "wind-fall" etymology is due to the good fortune involved and not the part about meat. Perhaps either the article or the hook should be rephrased? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:56, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:56, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
- I am guessing you missed this, which was already in the article: }The bounty and good fortune inherent in this find are recognised in etymology: "The meaning of the word 'drift-whale' in Icelandic, 'hvalreki,' has the same meaning as 'wind-fall' – an unexpected good incurred at no cost", according to Sigrún Davíðsdóttir, London correspondent of the Icelandic national broadcaster RÚV." Davíðsdóttir, Sigrún. "Icelandic whaling is a relic of a past some (but ever fewer) Icelanders cannot let go of at Sigrún Davíðsdóttir's Icelog". uti.is. Retrieved 11 May 2018. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:54, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
- Yes I saw that part. What I meant was that the hook directly links the term "wind-fall" to carcass meat, but the paragraph in the article (which you quoted) instead focuses on the concept of the wind-fall itself; while the discussion of carcass meat is in the article, it's in a different paragraph, and the article does not make explicit links there. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:01, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
- Yoninah was kind enough to propose this hook, which has been reviewed by Cwmhiraeth Narutolovehinata5, I apologize for being dense, but I don't understand what it is that you want, and honestly don't see the problem you do with the hook. That's a 10-1. I would love to help, but we are at a stalemate. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:00, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
- I can't understand the problem either. A dead whale drifts onto a beach - what a windfall for the local people, who can make good use of the meat, blubber, fat and other products! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 17:33, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5 If I understand what you are trying to convey, it's that the hook fact(s) should all neatly be in one place in the article, and cited therein. But that's not what the rules say:
Cited hook – The fact(s) mentioned in the hook must be cited in the article. Facts should have an inline citation. The hook should include a definite fact that is mentioned in the article and interesting to a broad audience. Each fact in the hook must be supported in the article by at least one inline citation to a reliable source, appearing no later than the end of the sentence(s) offering that fact. Citations at the end of the paragraph are not sufficient.
If everything is in the article, even in different places, as long as it's appropriatly cited at the end of each sentence, it should be OK. I'm green ticking this again, because the article has those requisites in place. — Maile (talk) 00:12, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
- I can't understand the problem either. A dead whale drifts onto a beach - what a windfall for the local people, who can make good use of the meat, blubber, fat and other products! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 17:33, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
- Yoninah was kind enough to propose this hook, which has been reviewed by Cwmhiraeth Narutolovehinata5, I apologize for being dense, but I don't understand what it is that you want, and honestly don't see the problem you do with the hook. That's a 10-1. I would love to help, but we are at a stalemate. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:00, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
- Yes I saw that part. What I meant was that the hook directly links the term "wind-fall" to carcass meat, but the paragraph in the article (which you quoted) instead focuses on the concept of the wind-fall itself; while the discussion of carcass meat is in the article, it's in a different paragraph, and the article does not make explicit links there. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:01, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
- I am guessing you missed this, which was already in the article: }The bounty and good fortune inherent in this find are recognised in etymology: "The meaning of the word 'drift-whale' in Icelandic, 'hvalreki,' has the same meaning as 'wind-fall' – an unexpected good incurred at no cost", according to Sigrún Davíðsdóttir, London correspondent of the Icelandic national broadcaster RÚV." Davíðsdóttir, Sigrún. "Icelandic whaling is a relic of a past some (but ever fewer) Icelanders cannot let go of at Sigrún Davíðsdóttir's Icelog". uti.is. Retrieved 11 May 2018. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:54, 10 June 2018 (UTC)