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Template:Did you know nominations/Anyone here been raped and speaks English?

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Z1720 (talk) 15:12, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

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Anyone here been raped and speaks English?

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Created by Ashwin147 (talk). Self-nominated at 20:47, 6 August 2022 (UTC).

  • I don't think either of these hooks will be acceptable. The first hook is an opinion, and those need to be attributed to someone. Also, hooks are not supposed to offend or be provocative. The second hook won't make any sense to people unfamiliar with the topic, including me. No copyvio issues and the article appears long enough, but I advise you to stop suggesting hooks like the first one. —VersaceSpace 🌃 23:09, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
    • Thank you, VersaceSpace (talk · contribs). For the first hook there are three separate citations in the article which calls it variously, "hilarious", "raucously funny" and "the funniest book on war reporting since Evelyn Waugh's Scoop". There were also other links online which supported this but have not been included in the article. As for the provocation and offense bit - this is the title of the book and part of the reason why it has become so memorable and a template for conversations on journalistic ethics is precisely its dark humour and shocking nature. Does a statement of cited facts violate a specific Wikipedia/DYK policy? As for the ALT hook, isn't the idea of a hook exactly to get folks to read up on topics that they may not be familiar with if, or rather especially because, the hook is intriguing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashwin147 (talk • contribs) 07:27, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
Just to chime in here, I don't think ALT1 is intriguing. I agree with VersaceSpace that without additional context, the hook is meaningless. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:46, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
@Ashwin147: again, even if it's cited, the book being "hilarious" is an opinion which needs to be attributed, and ALT0 as written is not acceptable. A DYK topic ban was recently upheld for an editor who made provocative hooks like this one, so again, I'd advise you to stop pushing for this. —VersaceSpace 🌃 17:42, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
ALT1a: ... that sales declined after Anyone here been raped and speaks English? was renamed by its American publisher, so the original title was restored in subsequent editions?    MANdARAX  XAЯAbИAM  17:52, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
@Mandarax: that's a much better hook, but I'll wait to see if Ashwin has any objections. —VersaceSpace 🌃 18:00, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
@Mandarax and VersaceSpace: Given the whole concerns about provocativeness, I'm wondering if it's even necessary to mention the book by name. If anything, not mentioning the book's name might even give more attention to the article since curious readers would have to read the article to find out the title. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:15, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
@Narutolovehinata: sorry but this doesn't really make sense to me. The hooky part of this hook was always going to center around the title. Having to read the article to find out the title wouldn't draw readers. —VersaceSpace 🌃 01:34, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reping @Narutolovehinata5: —VersaceSpace 🌃 01:35, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
I agree. Using the title is really necessary for a hooky hook, and it's not unduly provocative.  MANdARAX  XAЯAbИAM  04:58, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
  • Fair enough. Given that consensus is leaning against the original hook and ALT1, I guess it's time to strike them out? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:19, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
    • ALT1a is better. Maybe we can go with that? Ashwin147 (talk) 09:41, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
  • Per the discussion above the top two hooks are now struck. A full review is still needed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:33, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
    Interesting article, on lots of sources, no copyvio obvious. ALT1a works for me but I suggest to turn it around:
    ALT1b: ... that Anyone here been raped and speaks English? was renamed by its American publisher, but sales declined and the original title was restored in subsequent editions?
    --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:42, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
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