Template:Did you know nominations/2014 retreat from Western Bahr el Ghazal
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:34, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
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2014 retreat from Western Bahr el Ghazal edit
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that deserters of the Sudan People's Liberation Army embarked on a long march of about 400 kilometres (250 mi) to escape their former comrades?(Source for the Long March in general: here; source for the distance covered during the march: here)
- Reviewed: Siege of Almería
Created by Applodion (talk). Self-nominated at 08:04, 15 August 2018 (UTC).
Article is new and long enough, well-sourced and interesting to read. Hook is solid. My only real issue is with the "Long March" name. While the deserters did in fact go on a "long march", few if any of the sources seem to use this as the official name of the event. - HappyWaldo (talk) 05:12, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
- @HappyWaldo: The problem is, the sources give the event no other name other than "march" or "long march". There was simply no alternative, so I took a title one of the most reliable sources gave in a heading. We could of course decapitalize the hook to "(...) embarked on a long march". Applodion (talk) 08:12, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
- @HappyWaldo: Hello! Just wanted to ask if my solution is acceptable. Applodion (talk) 07:39, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
- I do like your proposal but perhaps we should seek the opinion of other editors who are more knowledgeable when it comes to naming conventions. "Long March" is a great name but I am just concerned it is not the job of Wikipedia to name things in this way. - HappyWaldo (talk) 10:57, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
- @HappyWaldo: Hello! Just wanted to ask if my solution is acceptable. Applodion (talk) 07:39, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
- @HappyWaldo: The problem is, the sources give the event no other name other than "march" or "long march". There was simply no alternative, so I took a title one of the most reliable sources gave in a heading. We could of course decapitalize the hook to "(...) embarked on a long march". Applodion (talk) 08:12, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
Doing... Hello Applodion and HappyWaldo. I will review this nomination, but let's get through the naming first. Are you guys considering changing the title of the article? If so, I'm thinking something in the lines of "2014 Western and Northern Bahr el Ghazal displacement" might be good. That seems to be a common naming convention for events of this nature that don't necessarily have an official name. Thoughts? MX (✉ • ✎) 03:43, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- That works for me. - HappyWaldo (talk) 03:57, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- Honestly, "displacement" does not really fit this event; it encompasses a massacre, a mutiny, an armed campaign, a refugee crisis and a general phase of chaos. As said before, "long march" at least appears in a single reliable source. Applodion (talk) 10:12, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- I would think "campaign" or "clashes" would be somewhat better, but these also don't really fit. Perhaps simply "conflict" would be best? Applodion (talk) 10:23, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- Any of the following naming conventions and words would work. I used ideas from Category:Conflicts in 2014 and other conflict years. Words like "campaign", "clashes", "offensive", and "conflict" are applicable:
- "Western and Northern Bahr el Ghazal ____ (2014)"
- "2014 Western and Northern Bahr el Ghazal ____"
- Applodion, I'll give you the honors of choosing what you think is best. MX (✉ • ✎) 15:02, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- MX: I have thought about it, and might it be possible to rename the article "2014 retreat from Western Bahr el Ghazal"? I ask this because there were clashes and conflicts in Western and Northern Bahr el Ghazal simultaneous to the march of the deserters, namely a minor insurgency by a Fertit militia and a larger uprising near the Sudanese border by Dau Aturjong. "2014 retreat from Western Bahr el Ghazal" seems to be the most fitting and non-confusing title, but also neutral in its wording. Applodion (talk) 16:28, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- I would think "campaign" or "clashes" would be somewhat better, but these also don't really fit. Perhaps simply "conflict" would be best? Applodion (talk) 10:23, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- Honestly, "displacement" does not really fit this event; it encompasses a massacre, a mutiny, an armed campaign, a refugee crisis and a general phase of chaos. As said before, "long march" at least appears in a single reliable source. Applodion (talk) 10:12, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- That works for me. - HappyWaldo (talk) 03:57, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Applodion: Article is new/long enough, neutral, stable, uses reliable sources, images in fair use, it is readable, has no copyright violations, QPQ done. I have a question about the source that cites the hook. Where does it say they travelled 400 kilometres (250 mi) in distance? Was this number found in another source that was perhaps missed? In addiiton, I added a "Citation needed" tag that needs to be addressed. Regards, MX (✉ • ✎) 17:28, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- MX The number comes from the map, by tracing the route and comparing it to the scale. I have added the references. Applodion (talk) 17:59, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- Seems like the distance is higher than stated. Google pulls 472 kilometres (293 mi) between Mapel and Abu Matariq (not to mention journey in the map takes bigger curves, which means it may pass the 400s-mark), unless I'm using the wrong cities to measure. Would there be a source that explicitly states the distance covered? MX (✉ • ✎) 18:49, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- No, you are right, though they crossed the border at "Hadida" and only stopped at Abu Matariq later on. I wrote "about" 400 kilometres (250 mi), as I didn't had a clear statement from any source. I searched, but there don't seem to be any that mention the actual distance covered. We can change it to "over 400 kilometres (250 mi)", however, as it is indeed correct that they probably covered more than just 400 kilometres (250 mi). Applodion (talk) 20:42, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- Seems like the distance is higher than stated. Google pulls 472 kilometres (293 mi) between Mapel and Abu Matariq (not to mention journey in the map takes bigger curves, which means it may pass the 400s-mark), unless I'm using the wrong cities to measure. Would there be a source that explicitly states the distance covered? MX (✉ • ✎) 18:49, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- MX The number comes from the map, by tracing the route and comparing it to the scale. I have added the references. Applodion (talk) 17:59, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
- ALT1... that deserters of the Sudan People's Liberation Army embarked on a long march to another country to escape their former comrades? (Source for the long march: here)
