Talk:Youxia

Future expansion

I plan on expanding this page in the future. I recently had to move this from the Knight-errant page. (Ghostexorcist 21:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC))

Oppose merge

My belief is that the Knight-errant, or "Youxia" page, is unique and self-sustaining. To convert to a mere "Xia" page will make it ambiguous, as the pingyin-term is more popularly used to describe the earliest, if not mythical, dynasty of Chinese history.(Got Milked 21:56, 18 April 2008)

Did you even read the Xia page? It comments that Xia were people with martial arts abilities, with no social class, and wandered the land protecting people. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 15:58, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I've read it, but did you read what I presented? Let me try again: Yes, there is a "Xia Dynasty" page, and there is also a "Xia" disambiguation page, and as I've mentioned; the term Youxia is a good disambiguation from that popularly named dynasty, and also a disambiguation of other related Xia-named terminology describing:

Xia (Sixteen Kingdoms) (407-431)

Xia regime (618-623) during the transition from the Sui Dynasty to the Tang Dynasty.

Xi Xia (Western Xia), 1038 – 1227, state in ancient China of the Tanguts.

Xia class submarine, a Chinese ballistic missile submarine.

Xia, a place in the fictional Bionicle universe

You're a Wiki-contributor who particulary focuses a fascination on two things: Jewish, and Chinese; and that shouldn't affect the validity of a Youxia page, nor should it reflect upon how Arabs, Palestinians, and Persians view the validity of the state of Israel. Got Milked 23:50, 28 April 2008

Huh? I don't understand how me being interested in Jewish history has anything to do with this particular article and the proposed merge. Anyway, you misunderstand the specifics of the merge. I want to transfer the material from "Xia" to here. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 10:23, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Exactly! I stated that "Youxia/Chinese knight-errant" page be disambiguated from the more popularly used Xia terminology in describing the earliest of dynasties relating to Chinese history, and you stated "that Xia were people with martial arts abilities, with no social class, and wandered the land protecting people"; and I wondered to myself; "what does that have to do with the price of green tea in Zaire?". ANYWAYS, I just wanted to see that the page on "Youxia/Chinese knight-errant" will still be it's own exclusive page on Wikipedia, disambiguated from other popular uses of "Xia", as this is directed at English-speaking scholars and those interested in learning, and puts the Chinese knight-errant "Youxia" concept into direct perspective relating to more familiar themes in western-based texts. --User:Got Milked (talk) 05:38, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Merge complete. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 07:25, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Unmerged material

A large portion of the material from Xia is unusable because it lacks citations. However, I am place it here on the talk page so I can find citations and add it to the page at a later date:

--- The xiá (俠) is a Chinese concept that refers to a righteous person who excels in Chinese martial arts and who uses their armed expertise to protect the innocent and right social unfairness or injustice (鋤強扶弱). Such a person is said to possess "martial virtue" (wǔ dé 武德), and usually regarded as a people's champion. The conduct of Xia is not a synonym for Righteousness (正義) as in righting a wrong it may involve breaking the law hence in absolute term Xia adherents do not answer to the laws but to a set of self-imposed morality of right and wrong. Yet it is important to know that Xia is not the chinese term for philosophy zhe xue (哲學) is.

The xiá concept is the basis for the Wuxia genre of Chinese literature and cinema, and is fundamental to the understanding of the genre. Liang Yusheng, a founder of the post-war "new school" wuxia literature, once asserted: "I'd rather write a wuxia story with no force or martial arts than one devoid of the spirit of xiá (宁可无武，不可无侠)".

Cultural correlations

Xiá could be roughly compared to "chivalry" or 'heroes/heroines", and similar in part to (and often translated as) the Western concept of knights and knighthood, but owing to differences in cultural contexts, there are both major and minor differences:

• The feudal overtones of Charlemagne's or William the Conqueror's enfeoffed cavalry made up of nobles by birth are wholly missing from the Chinese concept. Unlike a knight, the xiá ("chivalrous man") need not serve a lord or hold any military power; neither are they required to be from an aristocratic class. In comparison, the main identification of a xiá is a code of conduct and an ideology of honor and social justice dedicated to serving the good of the people. The philosophy's expectations of good character in teacher-student relationships is a fundamental feature of traditional Chinese martial arts training. Another difference from western knights is that considerable numbers of these xiá are women.

A well-known description comes from the historian Sima Qian's Records of the Grand Historian:

“ He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. ”

History

The concept of xiá goes back to the Zhou dynasty, especially the Spring and Autumn period. Referring to a class of warriors (the shi 士) whose social position is sandwiched between the commoners and the royalties, the xiá (sometimes known as xia ke 俠客 or xia shi 俠士) is originally the military counterpart (wu shi 武士) of the more scholarly shi (仕), who eventually developed into Confucian scholars. Both are highly prized by feudal princes and warlords, one becoming intellectual advisors who contribute to the governing of the state, and the other ending up as guest residents of their masters living by the blade. In ancient China, these warriors' preference to use force to resolve a conflict sometimes made them unpopular and inseparable from the common ruffians in the eyes of bureaucrats. The legalist Han Feizi, for example, listed the xiá among the five vermins of society.

The concept of xiá however underwent many transformations through the centuries. By the end of the Qing dynasty it has come to represent an ideal hero who wielded power by force, but could withhold it if necessary, and more importantly, possesses a sense of moral justice. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 07:25, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Japanese equivalent

Wouldn't the Japanese equivalent be a "Ronin" rather than just any "Samurai"? Zargulon (talk) 19:01, 26 August 2011 (UTC)