Talk:William Darwin Fox

Untitled

There is confusion evident as to relationships in this article and I have corrected the Ann(e) Darwin line. (Her death certificate records her name as Ann, and I have handwritten notes by two of her daughters recording the spelling without the 'e' and her signature signing as Ann Fox)

Regarding the relationships in the Darwin - Galton - Fox tree, I will put up a webpage url in a few days with the right tree displayed. The Darwin name pool ran out of names in the mid to late 18th century - to the extent that there are a couple of Erasmus and William Alvey names belonging to different branches. In short, Robert DARWIN and Elizabeth HILL had the following children:-

(1)Robert Waring (unmarried)

(2)William Alvey married Jane BROWN, issue William Brown, Elizabeth Hill (d.3m), Ann, John Hill (d.8m), John Alvey (d.6m).

(3)John (Reverend, unmarried).

(4)Erasmus married(1) Mary HOWARD, issue Charles & Robert Waring

.................married(2) Elizabeth CHANDOS-POLE (née COLLIER - see notes below), issue Violetta & Francis Sacheveral

Next generation...

(5)William Brown married Elizabeth de St. CROIX, issue still-born, William Waring (d.13y), Robert Alvey (d.21y), Elizabeth (d.15y), Jane Eleanor (d.14y), Charlotte & Sarah.

(6)Ann married Samuel FOX, issue Mary Ann, Elizabeth Ann, Emma, William Darwin, Frances Jane & Julia

Note: Not all the issue are shown above. This will be corrected when I add the link to url.

Refs: Burkes Pedigrees 1888, Darwin Pedigrees - R.B. Freeman 1984, William Alvey Darwin (notes) c.1800, Darwin, Fox, Bristowe, Crompton collections Derbyshire Records Office, Nottinghamshire Archives & personal research.

Kiwi Kousin 10:21, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Erm, I'm not sure I entirely understand what you've said, and reusing the names it is confusing, but anyway, do you know the names of his sixteen children? I only have the names of seven of them, though how may died in infancy is another matter. Dunc|☺ 10:00, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Yep, I have names for 17 of WDF's children. My records show there were 18 births, therefore I suspect one was stillborn. Harriet had 6 and Ellen had 12 children.

Quick list of names, format - name(s),(married name),birth - death dates:

To Harriet Fletcher - stillborn girl, 1834, Eliza Ann (Sanders),1836 - 1874; Harriet Emma (Overton), 1837 - ; Agnes Jane, 1839 - ; Julia Mary Anne (Woods), 1840 - ; Samuel William Darwin, 1841 - ;

To Ellen Sophia Woodd - Charles Woodd, 1847 - ; Frances Maria (Pearce) 1848 -, Robert Gerard, 1849 - ; Louisa Mary, 1850 - 1853; Ellen Elizabeth (Baron Dickinson Webster - 1st cousins once removed), 1852 - ; Theodora, 1853 - 1878; Gertrude Mary (Bosanquet), 1854 - ; Frederick William, 1855 - ; Edith Darwin, 1857 - ; Erasmus Pullien, 1858 - ; Reginald Henry, 1860 - ; Gilbert Basil, 1864 - .

What didn't you understand from my previous comments? Kiwi Kousin 07:03, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Very interesting info, and nicely presented. But to clarify, the second wife of Erasmus was Elizabeth née Collier, (said to be) the illegitimate daugther of Charles Colyear, the second Earl of Portmore, and the widow of Col. Edward Satcheverel Pole. By her first husband she was an ancestor of Joan Yarde-Buller, first wife of the Aga Khan, and of Elizabeth Chandos-Pole, the wife of the 7th Baron Bayron of Rochdale (1st cousin of the poet.). - Nunh-huh 08:39, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Regarding Elizabeth Colyear - I've studied the information on her illegitimacy, and suspect what you have said is the probable truth. I tend to think that there is a likelihood that it was Charles Colyears son William Charles (the 3rd Earl Portmore) who knew more about that. As for the "Chandos" - various references have the name hyphenated, while others show it as an additional christian name. Whites Directory 1857 for Appletree Derby shows the name unhyphenated whereas R.B.Freeman includes the hyphen. Whites Directory makes reference to the "Chandos", so worth a look. Kiwi Kousin 10:20, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I think that "Chandos" and "Chandos Pole" and "Chandos-Pole" were used inconsistently, so I'm not too worried about the specifics as long as the relationships are right. I just was pointing out that it was Elizabeth's married rather than maiden name. (I think her husband was usually called Colonel Pole', for what it's worth.) Thanks for posting the good info on WDF's 18 children! - Nunh-huh 22:29, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

My fault for not including her birth name originally. As for the number of children; WDF's eldest sister Mary Ann (Bristowe) had 3 and died of gynaecological complications, and all his other sisters kept clear of the child-bearing business. Only one other married, and she waited until past that stage. WDF certainly made up for his siblings reluctance in that area! Kiwi Kousin 23:15, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Baron (christian name) Dickinson Webster who married Ellen Elizabeth Fox⁽¹⁾ was the son of Fox's niece - Anna Maria Bristowe, the daughter of Fox's eldest sister Mary Ann who married Samuel Ellis Bristowe in 1821. Their common ancestors were Samuel Fox and Ann Darwin, which made them 1st cousins once removed. In addition, both Mary Ann Fox and Samuel Ellis Bristowe shared the same great grandparents - Samuel Bristowe and Mary Savage, and this made them 2nd cousins.

-Kiwi Kousin 08:21, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Genealogy aside, WDF had a far greater claim to fame - he was an amateur palaeontologist and spent most of is time when at Myrtle Cottage, Brixton (Brighstone) on the Isle of Wight discovering dinosaurs. He was recognised by the scientific community and has three species of dinosaurs named after him. With that in mind, he will probably be remembered as long as there are dinosaur bones to be found. - Kiwi Kousin 08:46, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Why was WDF on Isle of Wight? Well, his parents had a holiday home at Ryde, and that is where he met his first wife Harriet Fletcher whom he married at Ryde on 11 March 1834. Poor health was a later reason as to why he kept going back there, and eventually his extramural activities got the better of him and he resided at Brading permanently from 1873. - Kiwi Kousin 04:12, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Merge from

It has been suggested that William Fox (palaeontologist) be merged into this article or section. (Discuss)

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The links from Hypsilophodon, Charles Darwin and Erasmus Darwin articles all point here. Seems the William Fox (palaeontologist) article hadn't picked up on the "Darwin" aspect of his name. - Kiwi Kousin 04:12, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Removed outside links - Kiwi Kousin 13:48, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

— There seems to be some confusion over the Rev Wiiliam Fox of Brighstone, who was the paleontologist, and the Rev William Darwin Fox who retired to Broadlands in 1873. It was Rev Wiliiam Fox of Brighstone who discovered the dinosaurs. See http://www.wightonline.co.uk/dino/pages/dinosaur_article_2.html The director of the Sandown Musem will confirm this.

The diaries of W D Fox are kept as a microfiche in the University Library, Cambridge.

The importance of of the letters to W D Fox from Charles Darwin were not stated in the previous version.

The importance of W D Fox in providing information for Darwin's evolutionary ideas was not stated in the previous version.

Alark 17:23, 26 June 2007 (UTC)alark

Thanks for clearing the paleontology business up - it didn't sit too well with me, as I could find no reference to any of it in the ULC letters or others held in Canada, nor in other family documentation I hold. Kiwi Kousin 20:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

William Darwin Fox/William Fox

I'm still not 100% sure that we are dealing with two people here and not one. I have recreated the William Fox (palaeontologist) article as it seems probable that there were two synonymic contemporaries, but if anyone can shed some light one way or the other I'd be relieved.

My evidence in favour of two men:

• There are certainly two close but differing sets of dates for birth and death, and locations for birth, both appearing in more than one location.
• William Fox is only ever referred to as a curate, even late in his life, whereas William Darwin Fox definitely gained the living of Delamere in 1838 where he worked until 1873; after which time he retired to Brading. Whilst it's possible that he was Rector of Delamere and lived in Brixton, it's much less likely that he worked as a curate in Brixton at the same time as holding the mainland living.
• William Fox (Curate) is listed in the parish of St Mary's Brighstone as carrying out Baptisms from 2 Feb 1861 continuously till 7 Apr 1867[1]

Contrary evidence:

• Fox, W.D. 1862. When and how was the Isle of Wight separated from the mainland? Geologist, 5, 452. This notable letter is generally ascribed to William Darwin Fox. However, it is signed W.Fox, Brixton[2]. William Darwin Fox was not known to live at Brixton, whereas the clergyman described as William Fox certainly did, and was very interested in geology. This could mean that there was only one William Fox, not two; or it raises the possibility that this well-known and widely-cited letter was written not by William Darwin Fox but by another - in which case the confusion has been going on for a great many years and probably can never be sorted out.
• If there were two men it would mean that two clergymen of a similar age, with the same name, both with an interest in natural history, worked and lived on the Isle of Wight at around the same time. That's a lot of coincidences.

Naturenet | Talk 21:41, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Since writing the above, an authoritative article has been published which clearly differentiates between the two men. It is on paper only, but I refer you to The Proceedings of the Isle of Wight Natural History and Archaeological Society, Vol 24, p.20 "The Isle of Wight and WDF's Sons" by Bingham and Crombie in which the authors write: "William Darwin Fox is frequently confused with William Fox... William Darwin Fox had a degree and became a rector, whereas William Fox had no degree, remained a curate and was single. It seems inconceivable that they never met but there is no evidence for this." Naturenet | Talk 10:04, 20 July 2010 (UTC)