Talk:Wannsee Conference/GA1

Latest comment: 10 years ago by Diannaa in topic GA Review

GA Review edit

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Brigade Piron (talk · contribs) 09:28, 12 August 2013 (UTC) Hello, I'm happy to review this if you don't object? It's obviously been written and researched very diligently, well done! I'll read it through and bring up the template.---Brigade Piron (talk) 09:28, 12 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

Rate Attribute Review Comment
1. Well-written:
  1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.
  • Just one small point, could the Holocaust menu be moved a bit further down to de-clutter the lead? Say, to the "Background" section?
  • "Mischlings" in italics, please.
  1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
  • There's quite a bit of repeated linking in the article. Remember that it's best to only have the first mention linked! It can be removed quite easily if you ask someone using AWB.
Lead

I have a few reservations about the lead:

  • Could the first paragraph of the lead be rephrased to be more concise? The casual reader will only read the first chunk and I do not see that it expresses "what" the conference did and why it is important to this history of the Holocaust. This is well-covered by the last paragraph of the lead, but it would be good to have it up-front.
  • The second paragraph, to my mind, is a bit over-detailed for the lead and is not directly relevant to the conference. I suggest that it could be removed, or at least condensed and merged with the below sentence.
Background
  • Could you please include literal translations of German words/phrases used (i.e. Sonderfahndungsbuch Polen, Einsatzgruppen etc.) in brackets after their first mention to clarify what they are? It is already done in the same section, but not at the first mention. Could you also de-link articles already mentioned above (i.e. Einsatzgruppen)?
Attendees
  • "or partially occupied and quiescent, in the case of France" - Link to Vichy France please
  • Capital "J" on judenfrei
  • "English translation:" Unnecessary, please delete.
Proceedings
  • "evacuating Jews to the east" - " " over evacuated please.
  • "German historian Peter Longerich notes that vague orders couched in terminology that had a specific meaning for members of the regime were common, especially when people were being ordered to carry out criminal activities." Please explain clearly what this relates to in the text. It's clear if you read the whole section, but not if reading up to it. You might consider moving it to after the quotation and having it as a stand-alone paragraph?
    • Not a good article point (so please feel free to ignore), but for A-class, I'd say that this statement is so important that it would require a second reference from a different source.
  • "He outlined categories of people who would be exempted. Jews over 65 years old, and Jewish World War I veterans who had been severely wounded or who had won the Iron Cross, might be sent to Theresienstadt concentration camp." I'm not sure that makes sense? "Exempted" from what?
  • Link to Congnac
Last sections
  • "He said at his trial: "How shall I put it — certain over-plain talk and jargon expressions had to be rendered into office language by me"." Link to Adolf Eichmann#Trial please.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
  2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
  2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).

There're a couple of direct quotes and other phrases that need referencing:

  • " In a letter dated 2 July 1941 Heydrich communicated to his SS and Police Leaders that the Einsatzgruppen were to execute Comintern officials, ranking members of the Communist Party, extremist and radical Communist Party members, people's commissars, and Jews in party and government posts." - ref please.
  • "On 29 November, Heydrich sent invitations for a ministerial conference to be held on 9 December at the offices of Interpol at 16 Am Kleinen Wannsee." Reference (and italics on "Am Kleinen") needed please.
  • "Heydrich went on to say that in the course of the "practical execution of the final solution", Europe would be "combed through from west to east" but that Germany, Austria, and the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia would have priority "due to the housing problem and additional social and political necessities". - reference please
  • ""Mischlings of the second degree" (persons with one Jewish grandparent) would be treated as Germans unless they were married to Jews or Mischlings of the first degree, had a "racially especially undesirable appearance that marks him outwardly as a Jew", or had a "political record that shows that he feels and behaves like a Jew"." Reference please.
  • "The museum also hosts permanent exhibits of texts and photographs that document events of the Holocaust and its planning." Ditto.
  2c. it contains no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage:
  3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
  3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
  • "In the dining room where the conference was held, photographs and biographies of the participants hang on the wall." This doesn't add anything and seems to be a bit over-detailed. Also runs the risk of becoming outdated if display is changed.
  4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
  • "Eight of the participants held doctorates, and none would be taken unaware: the process of dissemination information about the fate of the Jews was already well underway by the time the meeting was held.[35]" I don't think this actually adds anything. Their doctorates are probably to minor to merit a mention and the rest seems quite partial. If you want to keep it, at least remove the section "and none would be taken unaware:"
  • "Very soon, 600,000 Jews of Hungary (and parts of Czechoslovakia, Romania, and Yugoslavia occupied by Hungary) were sent to their deaths by Eichmann and the willingly collaborating Hungarian authorities.[52]" Please rephrase the last bit to something like "...with the collaboration of Hungarian authorities" to avoid POV.
  • "The Wannsee Conference lasted only about ninety minutes, and for most of its participants it was one meeting among many in a busy week." Please remove last section - value judgement?
  • "Despondent, Wulf committed suicide in 1974" Because of the argument about the museum? Otherwise please remove.
  5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
  6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.
  6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
  7. Overall assessment.

I'm very happy to pass this, congratulations! Good working with you!

Comments edit

Hi Brigade Piron. I have dealt with the points presented so far. Here are comments on work completed so far:

  • 1a: I have replaced the sidebar template with a navbox down below.
  • 1b: Items are now linked once in the lead and once in the body, or in some instances once in the table and once in the body, as allowed per WP:OVERLINK.
  • 4: Yes, he did commit suicide over this, as well as the failure of the German authorities to pursue convictions for Nazi war criminals. I will add a bit. -- Diannaa (talk)
  • 1b: I will look for more information on this point next time I have Kershaw at home (it's over at the library right now). This sort of thing is difficult to locate in a book by using the index, so it will take a bit of searching to find another supporting citation. Thanks for taking on this review. -- Diannaa (talk) 13:12, 13 August 2013 (UTC)Reply