Talk:Trainz/Archive 1

Archive 1

advertisng??

who's been writing in all this advertising? It's got to go.

Trainz is just a "wordprocessor" to build imaginative and creative worlds There is not that much in the box, could it then be said that a text file is an advert for Microsoft

I meant opinionated comments in the article in the article -- read Wikipedia:point of view -- so for example, something I deleted earlier said "Trainz Railroad Simulator 2004 (known as TRS among users) is an:

incredibly immersivegame for creating, driving on, and operating a railroad"

Incredibly immersive is Point of View -- not everyone will think the game is 'incredibly immersive' tommylommykins 09:39, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

I can't believe the guy who said this is advertising. GCFreak2 aka Callum027 07:50, January 1, 2007 (UTC)

Surveyor section

1) removed This module of the game is appreciated for its simplicity. as it is not NPOV

2) added Here, the user can shape and 'paint' the landscape, lay tracks, and place buildings, scenery and trains., a description of what Surveyor actually is.

3) removed Items included with the boxed game are not the only items available for use in the game; Auran offers a download station (or DLS) which hosts over 10000 custom built objects, including decor elements as well as drivable trains. as advertising. Mention of third party content is added below.

4) general grammar and tidy up.

Driver section

1) added a reference to explain the link between Surveyor and Driver (bearing in mind that this is descriptive of all versions of Trainz).

2) general grammar and tidy up.

Scenarios section

1) removed Scenarios are being replaced by the more popular session concept which requires less scripting and can be created in 'Surveyor' rather than having to be fully scripted from a third party application. because

a) it's disputable. Scenarios still exist in the game (as a discrete module, and it is the module which is being described here).

b) it's confusing, and I don't imagine it conveys much meaning to anyone not already familiar with TRS.

Additional features section

1)removed the header, as most of that described were not 'Additional features' of the game.

2)removed the paintshed section - with hindsight, I guess a description of paintshed should be readded, and I will do so. added a new para on Paintshed.

As a matter of accuracy I had mentioned that Paintshed was a full software at one time, that ought to figure in the main article (as a seperate article for Paintshed would be unappropriate). Captain scarlet 14:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

3)removed Trainz Discussion Forum, as pretty much all games have a discussion forum and it's not a notable feature. A link to the forums is at the bottom of the article.

4)removed Language Beta Translation Group - there were translations which were created, but subsequently not used? What relevence has that to anything? If anything, it sounds like a subtle POV - a complaint from a member of the LBTG that their work was not used, perhaps?

5)removed Content Creation Group, for similar reasons as the LBTG. It's confusing to someone who doesn't already know what it is, for one thing. also, an additional reference to third party content has been added, see below.

6) removed Trainz on the Road - certainly an interesting phenomenon but it doesn't really say much about Trainz itself. Auran rewarded demonstrators with premium access to its DLS facilities. sounds a bit funny. Advertising?

This was an attempt at showing the involvement of the game's editor at a personnal level. Captain scarlet 14:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

History section

Generally tidied up and made more readable.

Other changes

removed the little box graphics - they don't mean anything to anyone who doesn't know what they already are, they don't add anything to the article, they look untidy and they are inconsistent (there is no icon for scenarios, for example).

No icon for scenario was added as there is none. Captain scarlet 14:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

added Trainz also has a large content creation community, who use modelling software such as Gmax to create additional scenery and rolling stock models for use in the game. The more recent versions of Trainz include a lot of third-party content, and registered owners of the game can download (and upload) third party content via the Trainz website. as a NPOV description of the third party community. Captain scarlet has incorporated this para into his latest edits so I guess it's acceptable.

---

What do you think of the current version? I have incorporated sections from both "versions", including the information on the LBTG and CCG (under what I think is a more suitable heading of "Community Involvement"). FiggyBee 14:39, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

All good ! Thanks. Captain scarlet 14:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Linux and Mac availability

In the infobox, supported platforms are Windows, Linux and Mac. However, in the text body, it says that Linux and Mac are experimental/yet to be released. If this is the case, should the infobox really include these? Hertzsprung 16:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Bugs discussion

Wouldn't it be appropriate to mention some of the most major and persistent bugs of the game somewhere?

Just as a sole example (I don't want to edit the main page before asking here) the "driver AI" still doesn't work, even after all these versions, patches and service packs; meaning that the pathfinding makes severe errors, the drivers ignore signals and direction markers, and that blocked trains will "lose their patience" and end up dead-locking each other or become coupled to each other (effectively destroying one driver and his orders) 213.112.249.111 17:30, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't know how other articles about software manage it, but such information seems appropriate to me as a form of "criticisms" section. The only issue I'd have is that it should be presented in a neutral manner. I've run into the path problems you mentioned when using one of the prepackaged scenarios; yeah, it gets annoying, but this is still one of the very few programs where I've purchased every upgrade that has been released. Slambo (Speak) 18:14, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Slambo. Btw, I agree with your assessment - this would not be nearly as frustrating if the software wasn't so excellent otherwise... ;-/ 213.112.249.111 15:43, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

External links discussion

Should the external links include the major non-profit usergroups/fansites for Trainz, such as Trainz Pro Routes and the Razorback Railway? I put in a link to Virtual Railroader's Train Sim Webfinder http://www.virtualrailroader.com/HTML_Version/WebFinder.htm (a huge list of links to trainsim sites for all the major programs) but it got zapped for being regarded as advertising.Unsigned comment was added by John259, 10:14, 17 November 2006 GMT

Fansites do not constitute what is deemed appropriate as external links. this is an encyclopedia, not an advertising service, external link exist only to provide sources to an article. Reference notes are added to source particular statements. Whether websites are non-for-profit or commercial websites, fansites are not appropriate for inclusion. The only non-official and personnal website link left is kept as it is a source of impartial and verifiable information for the article's substance. Content or download download websites do not. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 11:06, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Notes about the forum up/down status

I've removed the comments in the External links section about the official forum's up/down status. This information isn't really encyclopedic. Yes, there have been problems with Auran's forum upgrade, but WP:NOT a status monitor for other websites. Slambo (Speak) 18:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Trainz Driver Edition

Captain Scarlet: Trainz Driver Edition is NOT just a regional edition. As the review that I linked to clearly explains, TDE is a special cut-down version sold in the USA at a low price and is totally different to the regional editions. It is therefore my opinion that the following entry should be restored please:

• Trainz Driver Edition (TDE) is a cut-down version of TRS2006 sold in the USA. A full review is available on V-Scaler. John259 17:17, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

If it is sold in one country only, it is a regional version, the spanish version, translated into spanish and sold in spain only (different publishers for Latin America) also make it a regional version... It's in the name: TDE is a special cut-down version sold in the USA. And when you sourc,e don't use some guy's website [1], that's advertising, try looking for the publisher's. Basically, there is no need to elaborate on a particular local version or the list, currently incomplete, would become a directory, which Wikipedia is not. Also if I put Trainz 2007 IS sold here, there and there it's because it's been checked, don't go changing it to may be if I made a point to add it, you did ask for a fact check!. Further more, the sim isn't sold solely in the Francophone region of the countries but IN the countries, it also not a local version but a step above previous versions. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 19:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Captain - Thanks for making the changes, what you now have seems a very reasonable compromise to me.John259 20:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it does indeed. cheers, Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 21:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

ALL WRONG!

I fixed two completely incorrect things here: scenarios are availible in Ultimate Trainz Collection and up! TRS2006 does have scenarios accessable from the Driver module. I know because I have TRS2006 myself. And, TRS2004 had "scenario-like" sessions, not just TRS2006 and Trainz Driver Edition. Moojgoo 23:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)Moojgoo

Merging Trainz Railroad Simulator 2006

Hi,

I don't think there's much in the TRS 2006 article that isn't also in this one, so I'm suggesting it be merged in. As each version of Trainz is little more than an update of it's predecessor, I think having seperate articles for each incarnation would be overkill, as most of the info about gameplay, etc, would be duplicated. Far better to have it all in one place, so the article can discuss the differences rather than repeat the similarites.

BTW, this is similar to, say, the article on Railroad Tycoon, which covers the whole series (and I'd say RRT -> RRT3 is a much bigger jump than Trainz CE -> TRS2006). FiggyBee 04:29, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 08:14, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Good idea. I suggest retaining TRS2006 but purely as a redirect to Trainz. John259.

Support the merge--GCFreak2 03:57, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Big Big BIG Support Well, what are we waiting for? Fragmented articles puts to much junk on Wikipedia! [|Retro00064 | (talk/contribs) |] 04:53, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Alright, there doesn't seem to be much talk about this, and the TRS2006 article is absolute duplicate worthless junk anyway, so I'm merging it now, same as I did with the TS2009 article. [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 18:44, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Scenarios deprecated (replaced by sessions)?

I don't see much emphasis on scenarios in the current release of Trainz 2006; only a handful are included, and there is no documentation telling you how to create your own. Far more emphasis is placed on sessions.

Would it be correct to state that Auran want route creators to concentrate on sessions, and that scenario support is only included for backwards compatibility with earlier versions of Trainz? 217.155.20.163 22:21, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes I think that is basically correct. Be aware that this has been a highly controversial subject in the Trainz community, as has TRS2006 generally. It is possible to create activities which run as scenarios in TRS2004 and as driver sessions which appear to be as close as possible to scenarios in TRS2006. The Razorback Railway does this. In addition, Trainz Pro Routes have a version of their Scenario Creation System (SCS) program for TRS2006. I'm not sure whether any of this information should go in the article, probably not.John259 06:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Mac Trainz

May I ask, who said this?

"A version for Mac OS X is in the testing phase as of April 2006. Auran recently told one of the Trainz community members that development on the Mac version has been suspended and will not be released."

The truth to that fact is that no one is allowed to comment on that sort of thing as all of us on the beta team are under a strict NDA, which needs to be ahered to at all times.

Therefore, the statement is nor correct or incorrect and I recommend it is removed until AURAN confirm whichever case it is.

WessexElectricNut 18:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Look at the article history... Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 06:05, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Trainz 2007 box.jpg

Image:Trainz 2007 box.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Trainz CCG icon.gif

Image:Trainz CCG icon.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:40, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Trainz FCT icon.gif

Image:Trainz FCT icon.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:40, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Trainz LBTG icon.gif

Image:Trainz LBTG icon.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Trainz TotR icon.gif

Image:Trainz TotR icon.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

What's with the redirects?

What's with the redirects to this article? I mean, like TRS2004, TRS2006, Trainz Railroad Simulator 2006? It's absolutely ridiculous! I can see evidence that some time ago the Trainz articles were fragmented. Ouch! (well, that's already taken care of.) But now there's redirects left over and redundant links in articles, say, Auran. Why not delete all these redundant redirects then go and clean up those articles that link here! [|Retro00064 | (talk/contribs) |] 04:50, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

afd

please see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Trains#RailDriver_contested_prod if you have some interest in this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carrolljon (talk • contribs) 22:51, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Why the Infobox image shouldn't be deleted

Captain Scarlet's image used in the infobox on this article does have source information. the image page says it's author's name is Gregory. Captain Scarlet's name is Gregory, as proved by the above disscusion, please look in Talk:Trainz#Plural of Scenario at the comments, you will see where User:FiggyBee calls him "Greg", and Captain Scarlet says not to call users by their real name. I don't even like using his real name here but it's the proof needed to save the image. If you need more proof, ask Captain Scarlet himself on his talk page (don't expect him to get back right away, his last contrib was on April 1). [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 05:04, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

• In addition to the above, here is the missing source website at the WayBack Machine. Note the link that says "Gregsworld". Since Captain Scarlet's name is Greg then that must have been his website and so that's all the proof you need to see this image has a source and shouldn't be deleted. [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 05:13, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Is this user actually related to the game's developer, Auran, or is he just the person who took the screenshot? Merely taking a screenshot of a commercial product does not give someone rights to that image; if the image has truly been released as free-use, then proof should be provided from Auran, whom are the copyright holders of the product. For now, as this is potentially a non-free image, the image should not be used on any articles for the sake of risking infringement from the copyright holder. If the image hasn't been released as free-use, then a fair-use rationale should be provided to justify its use on Wikipedia. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 14:46, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Captain Scarlet is a Trainz community member, but is not affiliated with Auran. The image page should therefore use {{Non-free software screenshot}} as the license and also provide a fair-use rationale, which I can add pretty easily. [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 02:41, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, good; that should suffice. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 15:16, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

All  Done. [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 10:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Trains WikiProject?

This user is a participant in the Trains WikiProject.

I know this is essentially a video game, but I was wondering if this could be included in the Trains WikiProject? Seeing how a lot of people who play the various Trainz Railroad Simulator and the Microsoft Trains Simulator are either railroad employees and/or Railfans, I thought it might serve as, if nothing else, an interesting reference within the project. Thoughts? Comments? Snide remarks? Erzahler (talk) 20:20, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Complete Replan

I have seen this article a number of times, and in my opinion it is quite confusing and in need of a remake. Does anybody have a problem with me changing the order of the topics, along with a few other things? Looking at Microsoft Flight Simulator X, it has a neat layout and order. Maybe we should make new sections for the new versions, and a section for the older ones. Hardware and community is less important than versions in my opinion. Any more views on this? Mjosefsson (talk) 12:20, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

IMHO go for it, it does indeed need a damn good sort out. At the same time all that stupid nonsense about the plural of scenario not being scenarios needs to be deleted from this page. That's just my 2c worth though, what do other people think? John259 (talk) 12:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I've deleted the scenarii rubbish from this page John259 (talk) 18:34, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Ugh, what a mess! Last time I edited this article a good amount, from what I remember, I had helped clean it up nicely. But now it has turned into a huge mess. Advertising (aka 'Overview' section), lots of grammatical errors, versions all mixed up in places. It's just overwhelming! Please, if your going to edit this page, then please look up Wikipedia's policies and read them thoroughly before changing anything on this article. For example, don't go saying how great the game is, as that's advertising. Try to maintain a neutral point of view with everything you put into the article. [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 01:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I've had a good go at adding citations, but where is the criticism section? As per WP:NPOV all sides of the reception should be taken into account. --Marianian^(talk) 21:59, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

You are right that there should be more NPOV, but I think its hard to make a specific section on it. I instead think that we quite simply have more complete when writing, highlighting stuff like 'the version was released a month later than planned' and so on. Mjosefsson (talk) 08:56, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Recent Vandalism

Please note that pretty much all of the edits done by the users on the 92.* submask since 2 June 2010 are incorrect and are using a subtle form of vandalism whereby they make small incremental changes hoping that noone notices that they're introducing lies and distortions. Pretty much all of these edits need to be reverted back to Plastikspork's edit. 87.194.151.6 (talk) 19:14, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup/rewrite of the article

I think that this article has needed cleanup for some time now, but I have finally gotten around to working on it. Here is a link to the diff, and below are some details on what I have done:

• Cleaned up the introduction from the mess that it was before, and also cleaned up the infobox, including changing the infobox from {{Infobox VG}} to {{Infobox video game series}}. See the diff. I still need to upload some Trainz box art to use in the infobox in place of the screenshot; I will move the screenshot to the article somewhere, perhaps the new "Overview" section.
• Nuked the "Overview" section, as it was really pretty much nothing more than a personal essay that read like an advertisement (not to mention the poor grammar), and made the "Concept" section the new "Overview" section, which is really a better name to summarize what the section contains, in my opinion. I also removed the "In-game modules" section heading from much of the text of this section. Maybe I should do likewise for the "External modules" section heading, or maybe I should add back the "In-game modules" section; that is something to think about. The content of these sections was also cleaned up.
• "Version History" section: Titles of the sub-sections of this section have been made italic where appropriate, and section contents have been cleaned up.
  • What was mentioned in the "Regional versions" section is now mentioned in better places in the article: The mention of TS2010 being released as Trainz Railroader 2010: Engineers Edition is now in the section for TS2010, where it belongs, and the information on Trainz Driver has been put in a new sub-section of the section for TRS2006.
  • The information on the add-on packs for TS2009 has been put in a sub-section of the section for TS2009. This information has been cleaned up some, including changing the descriptions for a couple of the add-on packs that mostly sounded like advertising and were worded as if they had been made by the makers of the add-on routes (and they may very well had been).
  • The sections for Trainz Community Edition and Trainz Retail Edition have been made sub-sections of the Trainz section. I do not think that I did much cleanup (if any) on the contents of these, so that still needs to be done.
  • The section for Trainz Railroad Simulator 2007 has been made a sub-section of the section for TRS2006.
• The external link for the Trainz official website has been changed from http://www.auran.com/trainz/ (which is from the days before TRS2004) to what appears to be the current website, http://www.trainzportal.com/.

The article still needs work, and references need to be added and removed as needed also (the article seems to be sparse on sources), but I believe that this cleanup that I have done is a big improvement over the previous messy version. After the work I did on this, etc., I think that a break is due from working on it right now. :-)

Kind regards,

[|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 02:51, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

advertisng??

who's been writing in all this advertising? It's got to go.

Trainz is just a "wordprocessor" to build imaginative and creative worlds There is not that much in the box, could it then be said that a text file is an advert for Microsoft

I meant opinionated comments in the article in the article -- read Wikipedia:point of view -- so for example, something I deleted earlier said "Trainz Railroad Simulator 2004 (known as TRS among users) is an:

incredibly immersivegame for creating, driving on, and operating a railroad"

Incredibly immersive is Point of View -- not everyone will think the game is 'incredibly immersive' tommylommykins 09:39, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

I can't believe the guy who said this is advertising. GCFreak2 aka Callum027 07:50, January 1, 2007 (UTC)

Surveyor section

1) removed This module of the game is appreciated for its simplicity. as it is not NPOV

2) added Here, the user can shape and 'paint' the landscape, lay tracks, and place buildings, scenery and trains., a description of what Surveyor actually is.

3) removed Items included with the boxed game are not the only items available for use in the game; Auran offers a download station (or DLS) which hosts over 10000 custom built objects, including decor elements as well as drivable trains. as advertising. Mention of third party content is added below.

4) general grammar and tidy up.

Driver section

1) added a reference to explain the link between Surveyor and Driver (bearing in mind that this is descriptive of all versions of Trainz).

2) general grammar and tidy up.

Scenarios section

1) removed Scenarios are being replaced by the more popular session concept which requires less scripting and can be created in 'Surveyor' rather than having to be fully scripted from a third party application. because

a) it's disputable. Scenarios still exist in the game (as a discrete module, and it is the module which is being described here).

b) it's confusing, and I don't imagine it conveys much meaning to anyone not already familiar with TRS.

Additional features section

1)removed the header, as most of that described were not 'Additional features' of the game.

2)removed the paintshed section - with hindsight, I guess a description of paintshed should be readded, and I will do so. added a new para on Paintshed.

As a matter of accuracy I had mentioned that Paintshed was a full software at one time, that ought to figure in the main article (as a seperate article for Paintshed would be unappropriate). Captain scarlet 14:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

3)removed Trainz Discussion Forum, as pretty much all games have a discussion forum and it's not a notable feature. A link to the forums is at the bottom of the article.

4)removed Language Beta Translation Group - there were translations which were created, but subsequently not used? What relevence has that to anything? If anything, it sounds like a subtle POV - a complaint from a member of the LBTG that their work was not used, perhaps?

5)removed Content Creation Group, for similar reasons as the LBTG. It's confusing to someone who doesn't already know what it is, for one thing. also, an additional reference to third party content has been added, see below.

6) removed Trainz on the Road - certainly an interesting phenomenon but it doesn't really say much about Trainz itself. Auran rewarded demonstrators with premium access to its DLS facilities. sounds a bit funny. Advertising?

This was an attempt at showing the involvement of the game's editor at a personnal level. Captain scarlet 14:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

History section

Generally tidied up and made more readable.

Other changes

removed the little box graphics - they don't mean anything to anyone who doesn't know what they already are, they don't add anything to the article, they look untidy and they are inconsistent (there is no icon for scenarios, for example).

No icon for scenario was added as there is none. Captain scarlet 14:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

added Trainz also has a large content creation community, who use modelling software such as Gmax to create additional scenery and rolling stock models for use in the game. The more recent versions of Trainz include a lot of third-party content, and registered owners of the game can download (and upload) third party content via the Trainz website. as a NPOV description of the third party community. Captain scarlet has incorporated this para into his latest edits so I guess it's acceptable.

---

What do you think of the current version? I have incorporated sections from both "versions", including the information on the LBTG and CCG (under what I think is a more suitable heading of "Community Involvement"). FiggyBee 14:39, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

All good ! Thanks. Captain scarlet 14:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Linux and Mac availability

In the infobox, supported platforms are Windows, Linux and Mac. However, in the text body, it says that Linux and Mac are experimental/yet to be released. If this is the case, should the infobox really include these? Hertzsprung 16:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Bugs discussion

Wouldn't it be appropriate to mention some of the most major and persistent bugs of the game somewhere?

Just as a sole example (I don't want to edit the main page before asking here) the "driver AI" still doesn't work, even after all these versions, patches and service packs; meaning that the pathfinding makes severe errors, the drivers ignore signals and direction markers, and that blocked trains will "lose their patience" and end up dead-locking each other or become coupled to each other (effectively destroying one driver and his orders) 213.112.249.111 17:30, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't know how other articles about software manage it, but such information seems appropriate to me as a form of "criticisms" section. The only issue I'd have is that it should be presented in a neutral manner. I've run into the path problems you mentioned when using one of the prepackaged scenarios; yeah, it gets annoying, but this is still one of the very few programs where I've purchased every upgrade that has been released. Slambo (Speak) 18:14, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Slambo. Btw, I agree with your assessment - this would not be nearly as frustrating if the software wasn't so excellent otherwise... ;-/ 213.112.249.111 15:43, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

External links discussion

Should the external links include the major non-profit usergroups/fansites for Trainz, such as Trainz Pro Routes and the Razorback Railway? I put in a link to Virtual Railroader's Train Sim Webfinder http://www.virtualrailroader.com/HTML_Version/WebFinder.htm (a huge list of links to trainsim sites for all the major programs) but it got zapped for being regarded as advertising.Unsigned comment was added by John259, 10:14, 17 November 2006 GMT

Fansites do not constitute what is deemed appropriate as external links. this is an encyclopedia, not an advertising service, external link exist only to provide sources to an article. Reference notes are added to source particular statements. Whether websites are non-for-profit or commercial websites, fansites are not appropriate for inclusion. The only non-official and personnal website link left is kept as it is a source of impartial and verifiable information for the article's substance. Content or download download websites do not. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 11:06, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Notes about the forum up/down status

I've removed the comments in the External links section about the official forum's up/down status. This information isn't really encyclopedic. Yes, there have been problems with Auran's forum upgrade, but WP:NOT a status monitor for other websites. Slambo (Speak) 18:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Trainz Driver Edition

Captain Scarlet: Trainz Driver Edition is NOT just a regional edition. As the review that I linked to clearly explains, TDE is a special cut-down version sold in the USA at a low price and is totally different to the regional editions. It is therefore my opinion that the following entry should be restored please:

• Trainz Driver Edition (TDE) is a cut-down version of TRS2006 sold in the USA. A full review is available on V-Scaler. John259 17:17, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

If it is sold in one country only, it is a regional version, the spanish version, translated into spanish and sold in spain only (different publishers for Latin America) also make it a regional version... It's in the name: TDE is a special cut-down version sold in the USA. And when you sourc,e don't use some guy's website [2], that's advertising, try looking for the publisher's. Basically, there is no need to elaborate on a particular local version or the list, currently incomplete, would become a directory, which Wikipedia is not. Also if I put Trainz 2007 IS sold here, there and there it's because it's been checked, don't go changing it to may be if I made a point to add it, you did ask for a fact check!. Further more, the sim isn't sold solely in the Francophone region of the countries but IN the countries, it also not a local version but a step above previous versions. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 19:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Captain - Thanks for making the changes, what you now have seems a very reasonable compromise to me.John259 20:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it does indeed. cheers, Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 21:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

ALL WRONG!

I fixed two completely incorrect things here: scenarios are availible in Ultimate Trainz Collection and up! TRS2006 does have scenarios accessable from the Driver module. I know because I have TRS2006 myself. And, TRS2004 had "scenario-like" sessions, not just TRS2006 and Trainz Driver Edition. Moojgoo 23:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)Moojgoo

Merging Trainz Railroad Simulator 2006

Hi,

I don't think there's much in the TRS 2006 article that isn't also in this one, so I'm suggesting it be merged in. As each version of Trainz is little more than an update of it's predecessor, I think having seperate articles for each incarnation would be overkill, as most of the info about gameplay, etc, would be duplicated. Far better to have it all in one place, so the article can discuss the differences rather than repeat the similarites.

BTW, this is similar to, say, the article on Railroad Tycoon, which covers the whole series (and I'd say RRT -> RRT3 is a much bigger jump than Trainz CE -> TRS2006). FiggyBee 04:29, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 08:14, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Good idea. I suggest retaining TRS2006 but purely as a redirect to Trainz. John259.

Support the merge--GCFreak2 03:57, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Big Big BIG Support Well, what are we waiting for? Fragmented articles puts to much junk on Wikipedia! [|Retro00064 | (talk/contribs) |] 04:53, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Alright, there doesn't seem to be much talk about this, and the TRS2006 article is absolute duplicate worthless junk anyway, so I'm merging it now, same as I did with the TS2009 article. [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 18:44, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Scenarios deprecated (replaced by sessions)?

I don't see much emphasis on scenarios in the current release of Trainz 2006; only a handful are included, and there is no documentation telling you how to create your own. Far more emphasis is placed on sessions.

Would it be correct to state that Auran want route creators to concentrate on sessions, and that scenario support is only included for backwards compatibility with earlier versions of Trainz? 217.155.20.163 22:21, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes I think that is basically correct. Be aware that this has been a highly controversial subject in the Trainz community, as has TRS2006 generally. It is possible to create activities which run as scenarios in TRS2004 and as driver sessions which appear to be as close as possible to scenarios in TRS2006. The Razorback Railway does this. In addition, Trainz Pro Routes have a version of their Scenario Creation System (SCS) program for TRS2006. I'm not sure whether any of this information should go in the article, probably not.John259 06:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Mac Trainz

May I ask, who said this?

"A version for Mac OS X is in the testing phase as of April 2006. Auran recently told one of the Trainz community members that development on the Mac version has been suspended and will not be released."

The truth to that fact is that no one is allowed to comment on that sort of thing as all of us on the beta team are under a strict NDA, which needs to be ahered to at all times.

Therefore, the statement is nor correct or incorrect and I recommend it is removed until AURAN confirm whichever case it is.

WessexElectricNut 18:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Look at the article history... Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 06:05, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Trainz 2007 box.jpg

Image:Trainz 2007 box.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Trainz CCG icon.gif

Image:Trainz CCG icon.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:40, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Trainz FCT icon.gif

Image:Trainz FCT icon.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:40, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Trainz LBTG icon.gif

Image:Trainz LBTG icon.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Trainz TotR icon.gif

Image:Trainz TotR icon.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

What's with the redirects?

What's with the redirects to this article? I mean, like TRS2004, TRS2006, Trainz Railroad Simulator 2006? It's absolutely ridiculous! I can see evidence that some time ago the Trainz articles were fragmented. Ouch! (well, that's already taken care of.) But now there's redirects left over and redundant links in articles, say, Auran. Why not delete all these redundant redirects then go and clean up those articles that link here! [|Retro00064 | (talk/contribs) |] 04:50, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

afd

please see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Trains#RailDriver_contested_prod if you have some interest in this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carrolljon (talk • contribs) 22:51, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Why the Infobox image shouldn't be deleted

Captain Scarlet's image used in the infobox on this article does have source information. the image page says it's author's name is Gregory. Captain Scarlet's name is Gregory, as proved by the above disscusion, please look in Talk:Trainz#Plural of Scenario at the comments, you will see where User:FiggyBee calls him "Greg", and Captain Scarlet says not to call users by their real name. I don't even like using his real name here but it's the proof needed to save the image. If you need more proof, ask Captain Scarlet himself on his talk page (don't expect him to get back right away, his last contrib was on April 1). [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 05:04, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

• In addition to the above, here is the missing source website at the WayBack Machine. Note the link that says "Gregsworld". Since Captain Scarlet's name is Greg then that must have been his website and so that's all the proof you need to see this image has a source and shouldn't be deleted. [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 05:13, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Is this user actually related to the game's developer, Auran, or is he just the person who took the screenshot? Merely taking a screenshot of a commercial product does not give someone rights to that image; if the image has truly been released as free-use, then proof should be provided from Auran, whom are the copyright holders of the product. For now, as this is potentially a non-free image, the image should not be used on any articles for the sake of risking infringement from the copyright holder. If the image hasn't been released as free-use, then a fair-use rationale should be provided to justify its use on Wikipedia. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 14:46, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Captain Scarlet is a Trainz community member, but is not affiliated with Auran. The image page should therefore use {{Non-free software screenshot}} as the license and also provide a fair-use rationale, which I can add pretty easily. [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 02:41, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, good; that should suffice. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 15:16, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

All  Done. [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 10:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Trains WikiProject?

This user is a participant in the Trains WikiProject.

I know this is essentially a video game, but I was wondering if this could be included in the Trains WikiProject? Seeing how a lot of people who play the various Trainz Railroad Simulator and the Microsoft Trains Simulator are either railroad employees and/or Railfans, I thought it might serve as, if nothing else, an interesting reference within the project. Thoughts? Comments? Snide remarks? Erzahler (talk) 20:20, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Complete Replan

I have seen this article a number of times, and in my opinion it is quite confusing and in need of a remake. Does anybody have a problem with me changing the order of the topics, along with a few other things? Looking at Microsoft Flight Simulator X, it has a neat layout and order. Maybe we should make new sections for the new versions, and a section for the older ones. Hardware and community is less important than versions in my opinion. Any more views on this? Mjosefsson (talk) 12:20, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

IMHO go for it, it does indeed need a damn good sort out. At the same time all that stupid nonsense about the plural of scenario not being scenarios needs to be deleted from this page. That's just my 2c worth though, what do other people think? John259 (talk) 12:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I've deleted the scenarii rubbish from this page John259 (talk) 18:34, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Ugh, what a mess! Last time I edited this article a good amount, from what I remember, I had helped clean it up nicely. But now it has turned into a huge mess. Advertising (aka 'Overview' section), lots of grammatical errors, versions all mixed up in places. It's just overwhelming! Please, if your going to edit this page, then please look up Wikipedia's policies and read them thoroughly before changing anything on this article. For example, don't go saying how great the game is, as that's advertising. Try to maintain a neutral point of view with everything you put into the article. [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 01:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I've had a good go at adding citations, but where is the criticism section? As per WP:NPOV all sides of the reception should be taken into account. --Marianian^(talk) 21:59, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

You are right that there should be more NPOV, but I think its hard to make a specific section on it. I instead think that we quite simply have more complete when writing, highlighting stuff like 'the version was released a month later than planned' and so on. Mjosefsson (talk) 08:56, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Recent Vandalism

Please note that pretty much all of the edits done by the users on the 92.* submask since 2 June 2010 are incorrect and are using a subtle form of vandalism whereby they make small incremental changes hoping that noone notices that they're introducing lies and distortions. Pretty much all of these edits need to be reverted back to Plastikspork's edit. 87.194.151.6 (talk) 19:14, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup/rewrite of the article

I think that this article has needed cleanup for some time now, but I have finally gotten around to working on it. Here is a link to the diff, and below are some details on what I have done:

• Cleaned up the introduction from the mess that it was before, and also cleaned up the infobox, including changing the infobox from {{Infobox VG}} to {{Infobox video game series}}. See the diff. I still need to upload some Trainz box art to use in the infobox in place of the screenshot; I will move the screenshot to the article somewhere, perhaps the new "Overview" section.
• Nuked the "Overview" section, as it was really pretty much nothing more than a personal essay that read like an advertisement (not to mention the poor grammar), and made the "Concept" section the new "Overview" section, which is really a better name to summarize what the section contains, in my opinion. I also removed the "In-game modules" section heading from much of the text of this section. Maybe I should do likewise for the "External modules" section heading, or maybe I should add back the "In-game modules" section; that is something to think about. The content of these sections was also cleaned up.
• "Version History" section: Titles of the sub-sections of this section have been made italic where appropriate, and section contents have been cleaned up.
  • What was mentioned in the "Regional versions" section is now mentioned in better places in the article: The mention of TS2010 being released as Trainz Railroader 2010: Engineers Edition is now in the section for TS2010, where it belongs, and the information on Trainz Driver has been put in a new sub-section of the section for TRS2006.
  • The information on the add-on packs for TS2009 has been put in a sub-section of the section for TS2009. This information has been cleaned up some, including changing the descriptions for a couple of the add-on packs that mostly sounded like advertising and were worded as if they had been made by the makers of the add-on routes (and they may very well had been).
  • The sections for Trainz Community Edition and Trainz Retail Edition have been made sub-sections of the Trainz section. I do not think that I did much cleanup (if any) on the contents of these, so that still needs to be done.
  • The section for Trainz Railroad Simulator 2007 has been made a sub-section of the section for TRS2006.
• The external link for the Trainz official website has been changed from http://www.auran.com/trainz/ (which is from the days before TRS2004) to what appears to be the current website, http://www.trainzportal.com/.

The article still needs work, and references need to be added and removed as needed also (the article seems to be sparse on sources), but I believe that this cleanup that I have done is a big improvement over the previous messy version. After the work I did on this, etc., I think that a break is due from working on it right now. :-)

Kind regards,

[|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 02:51, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Support droped

Free downloads are not longer allowed on 2006 and 1009 versions. The download center is not paid only. This should be noted that download support will now only be for a few years after the produt is released. And that authors can no longer rely on the download center to distribute modified items. Sattmaster (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:27, 11 August 2011 (UTC).

Mentioning that "authors can no longer rely on the download center [Download Station] to distribute modified items" sounds not like a neutral point of view, but rather like a personal opinion that I bet a number of Trainz community members would argue against. Kind regards, {|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|} 21:24, 11 August 2011 (UTC).

It's certainly a false belief, support is software support for relatively current software. But elimination of tens of thousands of items from the DLS embedded in DLS routes (3600+ May 27th for TS'09, not counting 10 and 12 techs) isn't going to happen. // FrankB 00:47, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

issue

I believe this is written like an advertisement:

Alright it is gone now IluvSD40s (talk) 04:56, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Trainz Packages

These are stand-alone programs and can also be added to Trainz Simulator 2009. This means that you will not be required to have Trainz Simulator 2009 to use this product, although if you do, it will give you the added bonus of accessing the content in surveyor.

• Trainz Simulator: Classic Cabon City is the newest and most powerful featured add-on for Trainz Classics ever. The wide range of details spread out around a 10qkm area is based upon our new Trainz technology introduced with TC3 and TS2009. Classic Cabon City will redefine the cityscape routes for Trainz and will hit the top list as a "must have" item for rail and Trainz enthusiasts.

• Trainz Simulator: Settle and Carlisle, one of the most famous and scenic British main lines at the time of the transition from steam to diesel power. With 10 different types of locomotives and dozens of rolling stock items at your disposal you decide what train to drive. Sessions featuring Anglo-Scottish expresses, local stopping trains, fast freights, heavy mineral, slow pickup goods or trip workings offer a rich variety of services for your enjoyment. The 87 mile route from Skipton to Carlisle over the wild and remote Pennine moors will test your driving skills and ability to keep to schedule. Prototypical topography, track plans, gradients, stations, signal boxes and signal placement, viaducts and tunnels will complete your experience. With 'Trainz Simulator: Settle and Carlisle' you will almost believe that you are there.

• Trainz Simulator: Murchison 2 is a merging of the original Narrow Gauge Murchison logging layout with an extensive Standard Gauge rail network. By incorporating landscape based on actual New Zealand electronic map data with specially developed Nature Series sets (animated waterfalls, river splines, textures, cliff splines, rail ledge splines, rock splines), Murchison 2 takes Trainz to a new level of realism. The result is a photorealistic colonial layout, set in the steam/diesel transition era, that users can submerge themselves in for a complete interactive rail experience.

IluvSD40s (talk) 05:42, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I just deleted it. In my opinion its not even worth saving. Any objections? In my opion its relatively unimportant to prioritize that until the rest of the article is at average quality. Mjosefsson (talk) 20:42, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Small update. I think i was a little over ambitious, but I also noticed that the text has been copied straight of the website. Mjosefsson (talk) 09:00, 8 March 2010 (UTC)