Talk:The lamps are going out
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Famous Last Words?
editTo be attributable to Grey this seems a deeply pessimistic original quotation for him - he was then only 52 years old and lived to see not only the end of the First World War but to live on as late as 1933 (ironically he died months after Hitler took power in Germany). It would be interesting to discuss if by "the lights" he was referring to peace in Europe or the political order that obtained in 1914.Cloptonson (talk) 19:59, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Authenticity
editI know that Samuel Hynes's book says that Grey may not have said this, but we have a quote from Grey himself, claiming the quote, and a quote from a second gentleman who claims to have heard it from Grey directly. What is the basis, then, for arguing that the quote was never spoken? I don't see why need to include that assertion in the article. Sacxpert (talk) 22:50, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
- My thoughts exactly. Going to edit. AdventurousMe (talk) 05:56, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
- Neither "claimed" by Grey nor just "attributed" to him, but something in between. I'll give it another try. --Vsop.de (talk) 16:04, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
I have amended the opening paragraph, which, to be frank, I thought was a bit cumbersome. However, I apologise that I had not consulted this page and so was unaware of the above comments. I'll leave the text as it is for now, but appreciate it may provoke some further discussion! (Personally I think "attributed" is the right word, but ...) IXIA (talk) 17:01, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
- The linguistic advantage of was a remark attributed to Sir Edward Grey as having been spoken over Grey may have remarked escapes me. Also it was not only a remark but very much still is. Since Grey himself first published it by quoting Spender's recollection I still cannot find "attributed" appropriate. The inspiration for part of the British commemoration of the centenary of the Allusions-paragraph should not be made into a focus for commemorations in the introduction; it shouldn't even be mentioned there. --Vsop.de (talk) 03:31, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
"May have remarked" doesn't sound quite right, but, judging by your rather assertive tone, it's not worth arguing the toss! Enjoy! IXIA (talk) 08:28, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Popular Perception or Lone Voice?
editThe article states "The statement has earned wide attention as an expression of popular perception of the First World War and its geopolitical and cultural consequences." But historians suggest that, contrary to this statement, the war was eagerly sought, the popular perception was that the troops would be "home before the leaves fall," i.e., and that Grey was one of the few at the time who saw things differently. See, e.g., Ian Senior's "Home Before the Leaves Fall, A New History of the German Invasion of 1914" (Osprey, 2012). In fact, the German invasion of France and Belgium in August 1914 came close to defeating the French armies, capturing Paris and ending the First World War before the autumn leaves had fallen. It was only when the German armies failed to score the knock-out blow they had planned that it became apparent that the war would drag on for years. The statement in the article needs to be supported by convincing sources or completely revised. 97.91.254.54 (talk) 12:52, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
- I changed "attention as an expression of popular perception" to "attention as a correct perception" on 6 September 2014. --Vsop.de (talk) 21:39, 29 March 2015 (UTC)