Talk:The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises

IT would be nice if the article said when and where the "The Virtuoso Pianist In 60 Exercises" was first published. I came here hoping to find out...

The sample audio is /way/ faster than the Hanon exercises. The exercises go from 60 to 108 BPM. The talent of the performer is impressive, but far too excessive for the purpose of demonstrating Hanon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.5.22.7 (talk) 04:57, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Quotation from Ruth Gerald

I have removed the quotation from Ruth Gerald. It's in the introduction to the Associated Board manual of scales and arpeggios. I've just looked at that extract, and find there's no mention of Hanon's Virtuoso Pianist in it. She's just talking about scales. I know that her remarks could be applied to Hanon, but if she didn't mention Hanon herself, I think we need to leave it out or find a source which makes the connection, and quote that source. I don't feel we should make the connection ourselves. Rigaudon (talk) 15:22, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Quotation from Hao Huang

The Hao Huang quote appears to have been modified from the referenced page[1]. Specifically, the well known pedagogue is Dorothy DeLay, not Dorothy Taubman. As Dorothy DeLay was a violin teacher, not a piano teacher, I'm not sure if the quote on the source website was incorrect and has been fixed here. If anyone can confirm one name or the other I'd appreciate it. RichardJFoster (talk) 12:30, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I turned the link into an actual reference. She doesn't seem to be talking about Hanon though. Eman235/talk 04:55, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Hanon Style Methods for other Instruments

Others have published similar texts for other instruments, eg Piano Accordion, etc. It is left as an exercise for the keen student to discover and discuss them.

Criticisms from dubious sources

Far too much emphasis has been placed in this article on criticisms of Hanon exercises which do not accurately reflect the views of mainstream music education community. There is not a single professional music association, music education or examination board anywhere in the world who regard technical exercises such as these as harmful.

Hanon exercises are designed to build up strength, agility and control in the fingers. They are always used in conjunction with other exercises (eg. scales, arpeggios, etc.) and were never meant to replace practicing pieces of music as some of the detractors are suggesting. Therefore the claims they make students “unmusical” are nonsense.

It is OK to mention criticisms but not if they are fringe viewpoints held by a tiny minority. For example, you wouldn’t write an article on the planet Earth and devote half the article to the views of the Flat Earth Society. If there is some evidence to suggest “practicing of exercises can damage a pianist”, then supply references to peer reviewed, published articles by qualified researchers who explain their methods and present their data – do not refer to someone’s blog which is not a reliable or trustworthy source of information and certainly not fit for an encyclopaedia article.

Also, it would probably be helpful to include the preface from the book where Hanon explains the purpose of the book, why he developed the exercises and what they aim to achieve.

I also don't agree with the application of too many 'unnecessary criticisms' of its teaching & learning in this introduction article. Current pedagogic evidences from piano classrooms suggested us: if students weren't full-time and professional learning in piano subject (only as from part-time interests), the inputs of 'The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises' would be in short time improving their abilities of techniques and flexing their hands, rather than wasting too long time to sweat out. Oppositely, it can associate students in saving time and energy, for other formal works-analysis. I think it was much depending on piano teachers' operations for their students that we didn't need too serious training, but a 'rough' one, just - 'solving practical problems' appeared in other composers' textures of their own works - to get through; and, we really don't need to improve each piece to Virtuoso pianist's level. In other words, It's a problem of teachers' pedagogic methodology (We should know where and when we should use which piece of those 60 to serve what types of problems), and we shouldn't always attribute it to composer-Hanon's musical origin. Jason M. C., Han (talk) 15:05, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Currently, an edition of Hanon's Last Exercise - 60th from classroom-realization, has been submitted by me and kept in the main page. If you heard it, you will find the abilities of 'Basic Exercising Pointes' in a very short-time training have been kept there; meanwhile, the Fluency, Flexibility, Parts-analysis (4 parts), Musical imaginations- daily hardship training (in minor or some rough clouds) to sunshine senses of achievement (major lights), Emotions, Musicality and Creativity from nature, have all been kept there, with the helps of pedalling's creative sound-effect-atmosphere, though some small 'unhappy details' left. Based on above, we cannot say: Hanon's 'The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises' was originally designed without musicality, logics and imagination, but only focusing on physicality & basic techniques-training.

However, in 2018-2019, the classroom-based practices suggested me another complicated problem which I would like to talk and to make clearer: 1. This problem wasn't really about the requirements in 'Hanon's Book' - <The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises>, but some standards of piano-examinations & piano-assessments abstracted out from it, for evaluating students' general level; in other examination-sections, their performances of other composers' works, such as Etudes', Bach's, Mozart's, Beethoven's, Debussy's, Chopin's, folk solo-fashions such as Jazz & Blues...; and their daily endeavors with teachers' associations merged-in. 2. Those evaluating standards, abstracted out from all single exercising points in 'Hanon's book', for piano educational assessment (Background: many piano-examinations have summarized key points from this book, as their 'Basic Exercises' requirements), shouldn't only one-sided focus on students' physicality, agility, fluency and some 'good hand-sharps building & showing' in their performance. 3. Operations from those standards, if realized by examiners, usually leaded to their ignorance (or some teachers' final assessments) of students' other shinning points, such as Musical understanding, Musical knowledge, Musical Sounds-dealing ways, Musical imagination, Emotional expression, Logical analysis, Musicality, Creativity... from nature, and also, the hardship of their daily classroom-training behind. 4. If oppositely, the extreme emphasis of 'Basic Exercise Abilities' mentioned in Hanon's, would become 'The only one' in piano examination (as tools) to fall down some excellent students, to make some strong pressures to students' performing well-being situations, and evenly to 'kill' some students' Piano (Music) Geniuses, Interests, Exploring enthusiasm, Musical freedom of self-expression, Imagination & Creativity of music, and Curious nature in further development. It can evenly & dangerously make students to be Piano-Machines without thinking (We knew 'Basic Exercise Abilities' abstracted from 'Hanon's Book', especially the independent five-fingering, were necessary in piano; but, it's not piano's absolutism, and students from born usually have other natures and creativities which should be found and encouraged out)

All in all, against "the idea of technical exercises as panacea", Hao Huang's warning was quite right. Students also have 'other dreams' from nature, which are beyond and associated by 'Hanon's Book'. Those 'dreams' should also be focused on, cultivated up and evaluated out; and further, 'Basic Exercise abilities', required from Hanon's book shouldn't be 'The Only One' standard to assess all students and all students' abilities. Especially, 'Basic Exercise Abilities' required from Hanon's Book, particularly when focusing on middle-higher levels, shouldn't be an only excuse to fall down some students, their freedom of self-expressions in other composer's fashions and their creativity, but a constructive encouragement to their daily senses of exercises and achievements. Jason M. C., Han (talk) 03:36, 1 February 2019 (UTC)