Talk:The Altar

Requested move 14 September 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) GeoffreyT2000 (talk, contribs) 00:21, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

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• The Altar → The Altar (album)
• The Altar (rock) → The Altar (Antarctica)

– The Altar (constellation) one of the 48 constellations in the ancient Greek world, and still one of the 88 modern constellations defined by the International Astronomical Union, is at the Latin name Ara (constellation) here on en.wp, but with "The Altar" + "constellation" 16,000 results in Google Books the constellation is more notable in WP:RS than the newly released album by American singer Jillian Banks. (note that The Altar (Michael Vescera album) is only a redirect to a discography). The Antarctic rock needs moving because of The Altar (Ecuador). In ictu oculi (talk) 18:38, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

• Note that this was actually at The Altar (album) previously: 14:58, 3 August 2016‎ @Amakuru: (talk | contribs)‎ . . (39 bytes) (+39)‎ . . (Amakuru moved page The Altar (album) to The Altar: requested at WP:G6 as uncontroversial) not sure where The Altar was redirecting before the album appeared? The constellation maybe?? In ictu oculi (talk) 18:41, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

  @In ictu oculi: before 3 August, the article The Altar (rock) was housed at just plain The Altar, with the album at The Altar (album), then there was a swap of primary topic between those two.  — Amakuru (talk) 06:59, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose. The constellation is referred to by its Latin name on Wikipedia, so I don't think there'd be a need a redirect when there's another topic with the actual title 'The Altar'. TheKaphox (talk) 14:47, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

@TheKaphox: hi, but how the Wikipedia article is titled is a result of what we do, we'd be chasing our own tail. According to WP:DAB the question is; is there one absolute topic for "The Altar" in books? In ictu oculi (talk) 18:35, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose per above. A hatnote/DAB works well enough, since the WP:COMMONNAME of the constellation is not "The Altar". Nohomersryan (talk) 23:55, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose: agree with above comments. It's unlikely that somebody would be looking up the constellation Ara by searching on "The Altar". Praemonitus (talk) 00:00, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

WP:Commonname only determines the common name, not disambiguation. These opposes are all contrary to Wikipedia disambiguation guidelines at WP:DISAMBIGUATION:

A topic is primary for a term, with respect to usage, if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term. A topic is primary for a term, with respect to long-term significance, if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term.

There is no evidence in books that the album is "much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term." and no evidence that the album has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than the English name of one of the 48 constellations. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:19, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

• Comment - A hat note will serve exactly the same purpose as moving the article to "The Altar (album)" or "The Altar (Bannks album)". --Jax 0677 (talk) 14:05, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
• Support The Altar → The Altar (album). Redirect The Altar to Altar (disambiguation). Leave the rock where it is; the Ecuadorian one is a volcano. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:43, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. Even if we accept that the constellation Ara is sometimes called "The Altar", it receives a fraction of the page views of the album.[1] Even if every person reading the Ara article got there after searching for "The Altar", they're only a fraction of readers intending the album. And while the constellation does have greater long term significance, it's chiefly known as "Ara".--Cúchullain ^t/c 21:31, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.