Talk:Telugu Chodas

• Please replace the name 'Chola' (சோள) that means the name of an eatable grain, with 'Chozha' (சோழ) which means the name of a king and/or his dynasty.Helppublic (talk) 10:08, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Strange Conclusion

The article mentions that Telugu Chodas were Sudras. It also mentions the the present day Kapus & Telagas of Andhra Pradesh are their descendents. There is no evidence for this statement. Besides, the article on Kapu Caste mentions that Kapus were Aryan Kshatriyas who migrated from Ayodhya.

The current day Kapu Caste is a very broad category of various groups which have assimilated come together and mixed.Its not a Raju or a Reddy(ridiculous claim ofcource) caste which claims descent from one single ruling family or as a matter of fact the Kammas who are quite small in number.

The Kapus are traced to these immigrants as well who were of Aryan descent(if this theory is true) as an early strand.. Just the wat the Bunts and Marathas are linked to this immigration. Personally i dont believe in this theory called Aryan i would prefer to call them the Indo-Iranian tribes who migrated from Central Asia... and mixed with the local and Native tribes of the Deccan. The Kapus are not related to the Buddhist Trading Groups.Their Genealogy doesnt seems to state that... These Buddhist Trading groups are more closely linked to the Kammas.

Its the opinion of some Historians and by the way this immigration was some 1500 years prior to the time when Telugu Chodas showed up on the scene aroud 8th century A.D. And you can do some googling and some visits to the university libraries before you post basic questions like these... Prior to this period there was heavy influence of Buddhism and Jainism in the initial Andhra Kingdoms and there is also an opinion some of the ruling clans degenerated into Shudras because of their of Practice of switching religions and rejecting Bramhanic Traditions...

Discussion

There was nothing like "Konidena Chodas" in Andhra history. It is a well-known fact that Konidena was the capital of Telugu Chodas for some time. My appeal is not to create false history. This part was deleted. Similarly, the chronology of Cholas which had no relevance to Telugu Chodas was also deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.197.227.228 (talk • contribs)

Your deletres have been reverted. What are your sources for claiming that there were no Konidena Chodas? This article is adequately cited. The history of Telugu Chodas was closely related to that of the Cholas and the Eastern Chalukyas - Parthi 21:48, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Reply

No citation was given. The reference book by Durgaprasad did not mention any separate branch of Chodas such as 'Konidena chodas'. Similarly, no history book mentioned such a distinction. Chodas were no doubt related to Cholas. The chronology of Cholas already figures in "Cholas". What is needed in this section is chronology of Telugu Chodas.

Baseless Claim

Kapu or Telaga people are not Chola descendents. Kapus belong to Buddhist Kaampu tribe that migrated from East India (Bihar region) around first century CE. Chola/Choda people were of recent arrivals and had Tamil comnnections. Marital intermixing could not be ruled out. Kumarrao 12:12, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Kumar Rao... Firsty of alla you deleted content which was quoting reference books.Donot repeat this again... If you have a counter claim post it and dont post your half knolwedge posts here.You are the same one who claimed Madurai Nayaks as kamma changing their Surname to pemmasani... I know how good you are at History and changing it to suit your needs...

Coming back to you comment here it was not a Buddhist kampu tribe and it did not come during the first century dear... It came here even before the Satavahanas rose to power in the Deccan and if you want to come any close to that date... Please check when the first Satavahana ruler ruled... Recent Arrivals and has Tamil connections??/ Deat the Telugu Chodas are the first ones to use Telugu in their inscriptions and No one ever said that this was a migrant community that came and ruled Andhra... Every historian said that they are local Agragarian Communities.

And one mroe thing dear the first Telugu Chodas appeared in the 8th century and there was no Kamma caste during this time .Dont worryyy Also check Colin Mckenzie's Manuscripts if you want to have any idea on real History.. which was not Twisted and influenced by Money

Reply

I think 'Panel 1' has made the above input. 'Panel 1' must engage in meanigful discussion avoiding uncivil language and making allegations and innuendos. He/she also should sign up whenever input is made. Read Wiki Instructions. It seems 'panel 1' assumes that I a belong to kamma community just because I contributed inputs to 'Kamma (caste)' article. I am a historian interested in medieval Telugu history. It does not behoove well upon 'Panel 1' to be carried away by caste affiliations while discussing history. I never made changes to Madurai Nayaks withour revealing my identity. Panel 1 must be grateful to me for citing correct references about the Balija identity of Nagama Nayaka. I made necessary changes in 'Kamma (caste)' and 'Madurai Nayaks' subsequent to which 'Panel 1' has used my info wherever needed. Regarding cholas: Whatever I mentioned exists in the articles on 'Kapu(caste)' and 'Telugu Cholas' itself. Read these articles carefully. Decide yourself if you want to claim Aryan "Kaampu' ancestry or Dravidian 'Chola' connections'. I shall not touch these articles henceforth.Kumarrao 10:51, 19 March 2007 (UTC)thou

Dear KumarRao

Although i donot wish to continue this Discussion any further. Your posts about Balija and my posts about Balija in my pages check the Dates we will know who copied whose sources and did i cite any of your sources ??? You dint cite any source by the way.

Interesting Choice you have made you only raise questions on other community articles like Reddy and Kapu but choose to contribute only for Kamma Caste articles. It would be really great to see you contribute for the other two communities as well.....Good luck... Regarding the Aryan and Dravidian quesiton about yours read my posts again you would understand what it means

Reply

Dear Panel 1, See my contributions which range from Andhra Pradesh, Satavahanas, Alexander, Sindhudesh, Bhattiprolu, the battle of Raichur upto corrections/deletions in Kamma (caste). The articles on Reddy & Kapu are so confusing that it would take ages to set them in right perspective. You must do this job as your contributions soley deal with Kapu-related sub-groups. My only appeal is to do your job dispassionately. Whatever you have done so far falls short of Wiki standards. The insinuation about me copying others' inputs is left to the conscience of the person making the allegation. Wiki "History' record stands by my side.Kumarrao 12:26, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Reproduction

I reproduce below the input I made in Talk page of Kapu (caste). Panel 1 should be more broad-minded, rid himself of prejudices and built-in jealousies. Contributions to Wiki are read by people all over the world. One has to make inputs dispassionately and with proper references and historical records. Speculations and imginations are to be avoided. You can certainly discuss your thoughts on Talk pages. As far as history is concerned, no ruler or kingdom has covered himself/itself with glory. We know how 'great' kingdoms are raged to dust overnight. We are in the 21st century, not in Medieval India to perpetuate caste-based prejudices. We should learn from the history how not to repeat the mistakes of the past. This applies all the more relevantly to Indian/Telugu history.

Nagama Nayak and his son Viswanatha Nayak were Balija merchants. The father was the royal mace-bearer and the son was betel-bearer in Vijayanagar court. Both impressed the king with their loyalty and obedience. This information is available in two well-known historical books on Vijayanagar. Every Telugu should be proud of these Nayaks. The contributions of Tirumala Nayak, descendent of Viswanatha, are simply magnificent.Kumarrao 12:52, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Telugu Cholas

Telugu Cholas, especially Velanati Chodas, who belonged to Durjaya vamsa gave rise to a section of Kamma and to Telaga communities. Choda/Chode surnames are prevalent in both the communities. Kumarrao 13:18, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I have not seen Choda Surnames in Kamma Community even if they have the Surnames the Choda Surname, the combination of Choda Surname and Kasyapa Gothram does not exist in Kammas. Moreover there were no inscriptions that mentioned the existence of Kamma Caste during the Chalukyan period till about 1200 A.D. The first mention of kamma is seen with Gangeya Sahini and Ambeya Sahini... The Ancestors of the current Neni Surnames of Kammas.

The Chodas Gothram was Kasyapa. This is found only in Kapu and Raju Communities not in Kamma and Reddy communities. And whats the proof of Kamma community links with Durjaya Family ???

Descendents

Dear 67.174.222.38 ,

Please log in with proper User name, make edits and participate in discussion. You confessed that you did not know that Choda and Chode surnames did not exist among Kammas. You may broaden your knowledge. Existence of Kammas and Kammanadu and relevant inscriptions are available from the time of Ikshvakus. See Kamma (caste) and Kammanadu for details and citations. New gothrams were given by Badabanala Bhatta to Kammas and Velamas in 10th century. See many inscriptions of Kamma Nayaks with Durjaya Vamsa and Vallutla Gothra. If you widen your horizon you understand better about others. Kumarrao 08:54, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

TELUGU CHOLAS WERE BALIJAS(TELAGAS/KAPUS)

According to Paula Richman in "Questioning Ramayana:A South Asian Tradition" a ruler named "Varada Raju" belonging to Balija caste claimed descent from Karikala Chola.As per Etukuri BalaRama Murthi in "Andhrula Samkshiptha Charithra"Telugu Cholas gradually came to be called as Kapus/Telagas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.97.66.114 (talk) 16:14, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Descendents

I again removed the info relate to Chola descendents. Chola lineage cuts across agrarian castes of Andhra. After their decline, the Chola/Choda got merged into various social groups including Telaga, but not exclusively. Kumarrao (talk) 10:53, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Dear 65.24.52.9, I do respect the views of the Telugu historian, Etukuru B. Murty. Durjaya clan to which Telugu Chodas belong is prevalent in many agrarian castes of Andhra. Hence, exclusive descent to Kapus is ruled out. Henceforth, please provide your Username, sign with four tildes and follw Wiki guidelines.Kumarrao (talk) 13:39, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Do not mix

Do not mix castes with historical inscriptions. There is no evidence of what caste they are. mlpkr (talk) 05:19, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

It is unfortunate that some anonymous users have been repeatedly editing the article linking caste denomination without proper evidences. Etukuru Murty is not a reliable source. Particular page in his book may be cited wherein he provided proof.Kumarrao (talk) 06:00, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Repeated edits with caste connotation without proper proof are deleted.Kumarrao (talk) 13:08, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

It is ridiculous to see several users ( both Kapu and other castes ) make competing claims about how their caste is associated with Chodas ( or other empirse ). What everyone should bear in mind is that , almost all medieval empires ( with the exception of Rajputs empires or some muslim empires ) have obscure origins. As an example, even today no one knows who the ancient Tamil Chola's were, though guesses can only be made. If we go by the claims by various caste groups, Chodas's can be Kapus or Raju's or Velamas or Kamma's or REddy's ( all at the same time -is that possible ). What one needs to keep in mind is that caste groups change names and new ones emerge, it is very rare for the same caste to remain with the same name for many centuries. There were a loose group of agrarian castes in Andhra, that may have contributed to many empires in the form of soldiers or governors and these agrarian groups have slowly emerged as Kapu's , Telega's, REddy's, Balija's and even Raju's , based on their influence , power and their occupations.

While it may be easy to claim connection to an empire without any inscriptions or citations , this eagerness is only going to show a caste's inferiority complex, for only that can lead to all these outlandish claims!.

Telugu Cholas are not just Velanati cholas

Dear Wiki_KuthiVaiyans,

Please discuss here for further clarification on the topic. Let me clarify the history of Telugu Cholas. Telugu cholas existed from 6th centuary to 13th centuary in and around Andhra region. Telugu cholas do not just confine to Velanati cholas who were feudatories of Chalukya chola kuluthonga chola. Post Gonka I , during raja rajendra of telugu cholas they again came under the vassal of chalukyas of kalyani. Even prior to velanati cholas from vengi, there were cholas in renadu,pottapi and also nellore in later phase around 10th century. During 6th centuary neither of chola dynasty exsited in Tamilnadu and it got only revived by vijayalaya in 9th century. Kalamalla inscription of renati cholas dated back to 575 AD depicts the fact that renati cholas were independent and later turned chieftains to Eastern chalukyas. So I have corrected the content. http://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bitstream/10603/94000/9/09_chapter%205.pdf is a snippet for your reference. Happy to provide more sources if required. Please let me know if any objection. By LovSLif (talk) 06:51, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

@LovSLif: what do you mean? no source directly states that kinda of claims, as per WP:NOTSYNTH and WP:ORIGINAL, you can't add those unsourced content, your edits are reverted. Thank You. --Wiki KuthiVaiyans (talk) 06:59, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

@Wiki_KuthiVaiyans I Have already added source which clearly proves that renadu and pottapi cholas existed before velanti cholas. http://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bitstream/10603/94000/9/09_chapter%205.pdf here you go. Also https://cbkwgl.wordpress.com/2016/03/12/telugu-inscriptions-the-start/ and there are numerous books stating the same. You should get the facts that velanati cholas are only part of telugu cholas so you cannot put forward that to whole chola group of telugu cholas. Basic fact is telugu cholas of 6th century were independent and there was no such dynasty in tamilnadu until vijayalaya. Let me know if you want ref from NCERT By LovSLif (talk) 07:07, 4 February 2019 (UTC) More facts about Renati cholas of 6th century. During that period only chalukyan and pallavas existed until 9th centuary. https://books.google.com.sg/books?isbn=8126018038 Amaresh Datta - 1987 - ‎Indic literature By LovSLif (talk) 07:11, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

@LovSLif: Follow "Wikipedia articles must not contain original research" WP:ORIGINAL and provide reliable sources WP:RS and the references you have provided doesn't follow WP:RS and they are WP:RSSELF really a wordpress site and unknown author pdf which doesn't state what you claim?, provide WP:RS and make your changes. --Wiki KuthiVaiyans (talk) 07:16, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

@Wiki_KuthiVaiyans, I have already cited valid source. The sources cited in velanati cholas in its article , yes do not meet WP:RS So better we edit and retain only relevant content in all chola articles including velanati and others By LovSLif (talk) 07:22, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

This article is the digital equivalent of an arsewipe

When citations do not exist, please desist from making fallacious claims. The overall tone and language of the article has gotta be improved. Destroyer27 (talk) 18:16, 11 June 2019 (UTC)