Talk:Tangerine Dream/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Removed text

I removed the following from 'History':

(he is widely acclaimed as one of the masters — if not the master — of the Big Moog;however, those who have heard Froese's solo release "Epsilon in Malaysian Pale" would give the Master's title to him.)

I thought it added little, and was becoming a bit of a fannish argument with no references.Naturenet 08:20, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Froese has never been acclaimed as the master of the Moog, and certainly not in reference to Epsilon. However, if you substitute Mellotron for Moog...

Album pages

I've created what can hopefully serve as a good template for other Tangerine Dream album pages: Ricochet (album). Anybody want to help work on some? Kaldari 23:41, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I went ahead and did Electronic Meditation. (I wasn't really sure what to do with the re-release cover art.) I like the template; nice work! I'll probably just do a few here and there, chronologically from the beginning. If I'm feeling really motivated (and have the time), I may try to start articles for some of my favorites that are missing (Stratosfear, Tangram (album), etc.). Thanks for the template! —HorsePunchKid→龜 02:18, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I've enhanced the Ricochet page "template", please have a look and consider improving/pondering it before doing all other albums with the old code.

Discography organization

I'm not sure I completely follow the logic of the new discography organization. It seems inconsistent. For example, is Soundmill Navigator a live album or a concert composition album (like Ricochet)? If it's a concert composition album, shouldn't it be listed under the year it was arranged (2000) rather than the year of the source material recording (1976)? This is the logic behind listing Green Desert at 1986, right? If, however, it's a live album, it would make sense to list it at 1976, but under the Live section rather than under studio and concert albums. Kaldari 19:20, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

I really think it should be changed back to being organized by release date, as those dates are far less ambiguous. Kaldari 20:12, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

-

Hi. I knew the change wasn't very clear by itself, that's why I had attempted to explain/document it in the hidden comment at the beginning of the Discography section (diff). Obviously they were neither self-evident nor explained enough, and we don't have a consensus. So here are the full rationals of my (now deleted) changes, for what would have been a better, encyclopedic organization of a discography (instead of a mere wikilist of released records). It's long because it'll remain for the record and for future editors.

First, the larger context. Especially for such a vast discography, we want to accurately separate and qualify the core, original material that's the band's actual oeuvre (original compositions, whether in studio or in concert) from the secondary, derivative material (live rehashes, remixes, compilations, box sets). Which, for TD's live records, means distinguishing between:

• So-called "concert albums" (entirely made up of original compositions, created in concerts, such as Ricochet, or mostly, such as Encore) -- the core stuff you can't find elsewhere in a previous studio album, so we plug it with the original studio albums, in order to get the main discography of original material.
• So-called "live recordings" (entirely or mostly made up of secondary, derivative material, that is live re-playing of older tracks already available in the core discog, lives such as Rockface or Sohoman) -- the stuff you already have elsewhere in a previous studio or concert album, so we segregate it in a secondary, "Live recordings" section.

(BTW, this was already the old discography's modus operandi before my changes, as explained in its intro line; I had just renamed the "Albums" section into "Studio and concert albums" to make the summary more clear.)

Now, inside of this "Studio and concert albums" section, we had two smaller problems to manage, for which I thought the useful and encyclopedic approach was to try and keep the discography reasonably consistent with respect to the bigger picture of the actual music/epochs/lineups/progression, rather than the flat commercial and contingent schedule of releases dates.

First problem was:

• Where and how to list albums which have been re-issued with new names, w/o significant content changes, such as Quichotte (1980) which became Pergamon (1986), and Livemiles (1988) become Live Miles (1996). For those, I had thought more practical and more accurate to:
  • List them only once, of course
  • Keep them at their old, original issue date (which more importantly is also or almost their recording date, the epoch of how their music sounds) thus keeping the discography's progression consistent and cohesive.
  • But to pragmatically list first their new, definitive name, because that's what they are now (you won't find a Quichotte CD), and to only namecheck their original name (for the record, and also for googling).

Hence entries with all the information such as:

(1980) Pergamon - concert (1986 title, formerly Quichotte)

Second problem was:

• Where and how to list albums which have been issued much later than their original composition/recording date (albums released one year after recording are common and not concerned), such as Soundmill or Green Desert. Furtheremore, we had a real difference between those two albums, and here's what's encyclopedic in trying to accurately separate them:
  • Soundmill Navigator is a full 1976 original composition, recorded in concert. It's been released only in 2000, after tapes cleanup and minor, unsignificant musical changes (of the same kind of those applied to Ricochet etc.) , and it indeed sounds like a vintage Baumann Epoch TD album. That's why I thought accurate and encyclopedic to list it at 1976 (and among original albums, just like Ricochet etc. were), of course with full information about its actual nature and status:

    (1976) Soundmill Navigator - concert (released 2000)

  • Green Desert, on the other hand, and for what we know, was a loose set of uncompleted studio works done by Froese and Franke in 1973 during Baumann's vacations. It's only in 1984 that Froese took back the raw material and finished it for a 1986 release, significantly altering the music and its sounds, thus arguably generating a 1986 TD album rather than releasing a 1973 record, and it does indeed sound like 1980s TD soundtracks. That's why (even though it's debattable) I thought accurate and encyclopedic to list it at 1986, of course with full information about its actual nature and status:

    (1986) Green Desert (1986 reworks of 1973 tapes sans Baumann)

Doing so doesn't conceal any information, and thus isn't revisionist. It is only used for better placement of each entry in the whole list, so as to generate a more coherent and cohesive list. Another way to word the divide is to note that Soundmill sounded already like this in 1976, whereas Green Desert never would have sounded like this if finished and released in 1973.

...Last but not least, about *your* later changes:

I have to make it very clear that IMO you completely ruined the discography by removing classic original TD albums such as Ricochet, Poland, Logos, etc. from the main discography (where they already were before my changes anyway), for the reasons exposed above.

Furthermore, your reorganization seems fake and inconsistent because Inferno too is a live concert (of original compositions, just like Ricochet etc.) -- you simply deleted the concert mention (diff) in order to keep it in the Studio section, which, I have to say, I find intellectually dishonest.

Also, it's IMO a largely unencyclopedic way of writing a discography. What is encyclopedic is gathering and making use of actual and factual informations about records in order to document and qualify entries and generate an ordered set of consistent, cohesive sections. A discography isn't a mere publishing history, it's also a partial reorganization of informations after the facts to paint a whole picture, in part custom-tailored to a band and its specifics (such as, here, the creation of large original compositions rehearsed and recorded during live concerts).

Sorry, but your merely using the releases date, and merely putting all lives together (indiscriminately conflating original live compositions and live rehashes of older tracks) isn't encyclopedic (a computer and a records database could generate a list with your criteria). It results less in a discography than in a releases list. Also, it is less useful as an article for the normal reader (who doesn't know the TD discog by heart and wants to separate the original material and its epochs, from the rest).

Blindly using releases dates and segregating all lives isn't "less ambiguous", it's "less ambitious".

Bottom line, I think that:

• All original material should be back together, studio and original concerts
• If you maintain a basic studio/live discrimination, Inferno would have to go to Lives too [1]
• Soundmill should be positionned at 1976 because it essentially remains a 1976 record [2]
• Whether Green Desert should be positionned at 1973 or 1986 certainly is more subjective and debattable, it just seems clear to me it essentially fits more among the 1980s releases [3]

And I wonder: Did you listen to Soundmill Navigator and Green Desert?

62.147.39.4 14:26, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Ostensibly, I agree with everything you're saying. The problem is that your discography is original research, which is not allowed in Wikipedia. If you can show me a bibliographic source for your discography arrangement, I'll be happy to go along with it. I completely agree that having it arranged by release date is unambitious, but unfortunately its not Wikipedia's place to try to invent the definitive source-material-analysis TD discography. I also think your unique definition of "live" is going to be confusing to readers. We should go with the classifications already in use elsewhere on the internet. Even if we did go with your organization, how is Soundmill Navigator different than say the Bootlegs Boxsets? Shouldn't Bootlegs Boxset vol.1 be listed under 1974-1976 by your logic?

And yes, I have listened to Soundmill Navigator, Green Desert, and virtually every bootleg and rerelease from the 70s. I have not however listened to Inferno, and I was under the impression that it was a regular studio album, but on that I could very well be mistaken, as I know very little about TD releases after the 70s.

Since you seem to be quite knowledgable about many of these albums, I would encourage you to elaborate on them in individual articles rather than trying to explain all the intricasies in the discography (which is an impossible task anyway). Just be sure to make sure that everything is verifable and not original research. If you follow the Wikipedia guidelines strictly you should be able to write all these articles without ever having listened to Tangerine Dream at all.

Kaldari 15:12, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Discography arrangement original research?? It doesn't really require research to note that TD's older live albums are generally original music which hasn't appeared on studio albums (every TD fan knows this!), while the newer ones are generally rehashes of previously released tracks. Taking a glance at a live album's tracklist is enuff to determine which group it falls to - you indeed needn't to listen to any of them to see which are originals and which aren't.

However, rather than just tossing unusual categorizations at the reader, I think the discography should simply explicitely explain TD's unusual release antics. It doesn't necessarily take much more than a note saying something along the lines of "Most of TD's live albums, incl. all up to 220 Volt, consisted of original material which hadn't previously appeared on studio albums; therefore the live/studio album dichotomy is not really useful with TD", which is accurate enuff.
(The Vault series might need a short explanation too.)

In a sense, the few non-original live albums, eg Tournado, would be best counted among collections...Tropylium 18:10, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Images

If anyone gets to V or Ossiach Live, let me know and I will supply proper images. --Gadget850 15:00, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

A nice offer, but both being long sold out compilation albums which only featured one T.D. track, I don't think that'll be needed. Tropylium 18:21, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Considering how much fancruft gets added to Wikipedia, who knows. Kaldari 18:33, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Missing album

I did not see The Dream Roots Collection on the list. Is there a reason why it isn't included?

The discography lists in this article are selective rather than comprehensive. Feel free to add anything that you feel merits inclusion. Kaldari 16:02, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

First Western band to visit socialist country?

The assumption is not grounded well, I guess. Blood, Sweat & Tears visited Romania, etc. in 70s, probably some others as well. 80.90.225.55 11:15, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

The liner notes of my Pergamon CD state just: "Following two years of negotiation, T.D. were invited to play two concerts in East Berlin - the first Western rock group to do so (...)" - but on other releases of the album, I've seen this vary as far as "the first major rock group to perform in a socialist country". I don't know how big BSaT are, but I'm not surprized if the stronger version of the claim turns out to be just a TD myth. Tropylium 17:20, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Here's the only relevant info I could find on the official TD website:

"TD were invited to play in East Berlin. No other artist from the western part of germany was allowed to do this before..."

The text can be found on this page. Kaldari 23:48, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

According to this page, Blood, Sweat & Tears were the "first contemporary band to break through the Iron Curtain with a historic 1970 tour of Romania, Poland, and Yugoslavia." Kaldari 00:10, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

So basically, can we rest this by saying, "No other artist from the western part of Germany was allowed to do this before..." Whereas BS&T were the first contemporary [whatever that means...] band to play it. TD was the first western german band to play in East Berlin. Doesn't sound that complicated, but I may be missing something.Theswad 09:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Tangerine Dream: 70-80

I removed this section of text, as it is copied from ArticleAlley. While that article does show as "free for republishing", it does not actually show it as public domain. It also is contrary to Wikipedia:Don't include copies of primary sources. --Gadget850 21:58, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Origin of band name

>the group came to be called Tangerine Dream, a Surrealistic pun derived from German, where "tree" is "baum" and "dream" is "traum."

Is there a source for this claim? If not, I'm inclined to remove it as I have never heard this theory elsewhere. Kaldari 20:44, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I do recall reading it years ago (which is why I added it), but can't find it now. Possibly in Keyboard magazine? I used to be a regular reader and remember seeing an article on them in there. It seems fairly obvious to me though; Froese is clearly fond of surreal wordplay. Jerry Kindall 09:43, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/tadream/conversations/messages/86357 from Classic Prog, September(?) 2011

Here's what I was able to dig up on the internet:

• A reference to 'Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds'. Tangerine trees and marmalade skies. - AmIRight.com, Submitted by: Roger Francis
• I read an interview with them in the 70's and they said they named themselves after a beatles lyric on Sgt Pepper. I though nothing of it, until i was looking through the lyrics to Lucy in the Sky, and realised they had misunderstood/misheard the lyric 'tangerine trees'; well, they are german. are they the only band to be named after a misheard lyric? - AmIRight.com, Submitted by: mark
• The name Tangerine Dream is a mystery. One popular myth is that the name Tangerine Dream came from the "Lucy in the Sky" song. Edgar says this is not true, and that it is in fact an acronym, but will not divulge the meaning, or origin. - Unofficial TaDream FAQ

Kaldari 21:09, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough... I've edited it to say the name is surreal-sounding, which I don't think can be denied. The name does reflect the times in that way. Jerry Kindall 22:43, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Many people think that Tangerine Dream got their name from a 1967s album called "Tangerine Dream" by a folksy psychedelic rock band called Kaleidoscope. I also know that many mistake that lp as being an early album by Tangerine Dream. They mistake the title of the album to be the band's name. {re- allmusic.com link: [4]) Dunk meister 01:18, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

That's interesting. I'd never heard about that album before. Kaldari 05:19, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Well I doubt that it's something Edgar would mention or even admit too. Of what I've read what he's said in interviews it seems he's more interested in re-writing (TD) history and keeping up an aura of mystique than stating facts. Dunk meister 12:24, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Is Tangerine Dream "New Age"?

Discuss. Kaldari 05:22, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Not to most people. This 'new age' thing is a personal project of User:Dunk meister, and he's done it to many other pages, all of which (as far as I can see) have been reverted. I'm trying to explain good editing practice at his talk page and any contributions would be welcomed. Naturenet | Talk 09:07, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

To a lot of people all ambient music, electronic music with not baseline, space music, and modern classicla music is new age. Most of the people who think this hold all of the afore mentioned in disdane. This does not seem to be the case with User:Dunk meister, and they are helped allong by the likes of the major music retailers who like to have (with justification from a bussness perspective) big over reaching categories to dump music in. That said, if we were to let User:Dunk meister have his way then all of the music classification on wikipedia woudl likely be reduced to 3 or possibly 4 generas. Dalf | Talk 09:20, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Not all ambient, electronic or modern classical music is New Age Music. Only certain styles of each. Most of the music of Tangerine Dream, Vangelis and Jean Michel Jarre and some of Klaus Schulze's music is known as New Age Music and has been for nearly 30 years. Retailers use genres to seperate different styles and genres of music. They are not the cause of a piece of music being in a certain genre. They just utilize it to sell music to it's fan base. Blaming retailers for music belonging under a certain genre shows ignorance in knowing how genres become into being and evolve. Tangerine Dream being known as New Age music has more to do with the music itself, it's fans, the imagery and themes of the music, radio shows that made them more popular, DJs that play(ed) their music, printed and other media and the record companies that put out the music. It's the same way with most every genre out there.

Many people worldwide consider the music of Tangerine Dream to be New Age or New Age Synthesizer music. It's a valid and widely used term (genre) for their music.

"if we were to let User:Dunk meister have his way then all of the music classification on wikipedia woudl likely be reduced to 3 or possibly 4 generas."

This is a ridiculous statement that has no merit. If anything, I am for using all (fitting) genre and style terms for music. I have been listening to, collecting and been involved with electronic (and non electronic) music for nearly 30 years now. If something is "minimal techno" I use that term when it fits the music. If it's "glitch IDM" I use it to describe the music. If it's New Age Spacemusic I use that term too. Denying a genre because you don't like some of the negative hype surronding it is a poor reason for denying it. In the case of bands/artists like Tangerine Dream, Vangelis and JMJ, the negative/cheesy New Age comments had as much to do with their post 1980's musical output as most any other New Age artists. re-Lasar Harp , b-movie soundtracks, etc ;-) Dunk meister 12:20, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I think Dunk meister has a point. Many retailers classify Tangerine Dream as New Age and many people consider much of their music to be New Age (according to a Google search). It is Wikipedia policy, however, to refer to groups as they indentify themselves. To quote the Wikipedia Manual of Style:

"Where known, use terminology that subjects use for themselves (self identification). This can mean calling an individual the term they use, or calling a group the term most widely used by that group."

Looking through the official Tangerine Dream website, I could not find any case of them identifying themselves as "New Age". They do, however, often use the term "electronic music", for example: "The Dream Mixes series gives the listener a chance to see the music of Tangerine Dream from a new viewpoint and proves that the 'godfathers of electronic music' can still easily compete with their younger successors from the club- and dance- scene." Kaldari 16:41, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Artists and musicans seldom have major input on classifing their music. There are countless "IDM" artists that don't use that term for their music but many of their fans, the media, etc do. They become known as "IDM" artists. Many musicians don't care for any labelling of their music/art. But most people do use descriptive genre or style terms in reference to the music.

"electronic music" is a meaningless term these days. It has been a meaningless and non descript term for many years. It's like calling country or punk music that ultilizes guitars "guitar music" instead of using defining genre or style terms. Much rock music of the 1970s used synth/keyboards not to mention disco, funk, R&B and many other genres/styles of music.

Ironically, Tangerine Dream uses a lot of non-electronic equipment in their music. From guitars, drums to horns and strings.

If Wikipedia just used descriptions or terms that artists themselves used I bet more musicians would be labelled "Masters of..". Should an encyclopedia use the biased fews of the artists themselves or should it use more universal and widely known and more descriptive terms/genres/styles. I say the later. Dunk meister 21:22, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

addendum - Wikipedia lists Skinny Puppy as "Skinny Puppy is an influential industrial band, which formed in Vancouver, BC, Canada during the early 1980s.". Skinny Puppy was in the 2nd or 3rd generation of "Industrial" groups. Their sound was more "goth-rock" than earlier styles of "Industrial Music" By yes, they still made "industrial music". Skinny Puppy's official website lists them as the vague "electronic-rock". They also make reference to themselves being a "synthesizer based outfit". I didn't see any mention of "Industrial" in there.

I think it is fair to list Tangerine Dream as a New Age band or group. The bulk of their music was and is New Age Music. Dunk meister 23:03, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I think the problem many people have with labelling Tangerine Dream "New Age", is that Tangerine Dream is best known for the music they made in the 70s, which is hard to classify other than calling it Berlin School electronic music. None of the modern genres of electronic music had been formed yet, thus it's hard to say that Tangerine Dream belonged to one in particular. The same is true for Kraftwerk and Klaus Schulze. Sure, the stuff that Tangerine Dream made in the 80s is arguably "New Age", but I don't think most people define the band from that era of their work. That said, I don't think calling Tangerine Dream "New Age" is completely wrong, I just don't think you're going to be able to convince people that Tangerine Dream "is a New Age group". Maybe it would be more appropriate to add in a section about the band's role in influencing early New Age music, and how much of their output from the 80s is classified as "New Age" (although the band members themselves do not use this term). Kaldari 23:36, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I think you'd be hardpressed to find many people who have even heard of the term "Berlin School" and know what it means. Even people that I have seen use the term use it for a lot of non-German spacemusic. Music that is much more widely seen as New Age or New Age Spacemusic.

Some of Tangerine Dream's early works may fall outside the "New Age" umbrella. But look at the majority of their output. Those early "iffy" albums are what? 3-4 albums? Their early sound was more akin to progressive rock. You can see a similar more "prog rock" sound in the early albums of other New Age artists like Gandalf, Yanni and others. But like Tangerine Dream, Vangelis, etc their sound "softened" in the 1980s with most of the other New Age Music.

Tangerine Dream's post 1978 output is the majority of their work. They were releasing music on New Age record labels. Many of their ex members went on to create New Age music and start New Age record labels. (re- Steve Jolliffe, Peter Baumann, Chris Franke, etc) Over the last 15 years it seems that Edgar's been taking a cue from other New Age artists with the addition of a "smooth jazzy" adult contemporary New Age sound.

I also want to add that New Age Music started in the late 1960s. Like many other genres, a name for such music isn't there at the very beginning. It takes time for genre terms to spread to the masses especially in the pre-internet days. It wasn't until the late 1970s and early 1980s that more of the general public began using the term. But many of the artists and followers of the music used it when the music was more "underground". I have spoken to many of the early synthesizer musicians. Tim Blake from Gong, who was putting on laser synth shows pre-Jarre, told me he and Steve Hillage always considered their music to be "New Age". That includes a song he told me that he wrote in 1969.

New Age is plastered all over the history of Tangerine Dream and it's various members. I won't even go into all the New Age Music awards, Emmy nominations, etc they've gotten over the years.

A very large bulk of Tangerine Dream fans and those who bought and enjoy their music know it (their music) as New Age. I think all these reasons are enough to list them as a New Age group as well as an "electronic" band. Dunk meister 00:51, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with most of what you say, but don't you think that labeling them "a New Age group" is a bit of an over-simplification. Personally I am uncomfortable assigning Tangerine Dream to any genre more specific than "electronic music". I think some of their albums are New Age, some are Space Music/Ambient, at least one is Prog Rock, the first 4 are considered seminal Krautrock albums, Zeit is a perfect example of Kosmiche, and some of their newer albums are Trance/Techno. How can you take a group with a catalog that diverse and pigeonhole them as New Age? I think it would be more appropriate to discuss the various genres of their work in the History section, rather than presenting them as representing one type of music, especially given how influential the band was to all of those genres. Kaldari 02:20, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree that their sound has changed over the years. Their sound change echoed the overall changing sound in New Age music. Yes, I agree their early albums are more "Krautrock" in texture and sound.

How about putting something like "Tangerine Dream's sound has been a major force and influence in New Age Music over the years". I even think putting "TD are an electronic or synthesizer and new age group" is quite fitting. They've use electronics in most of their music. They also have released a lot of New Age albums. Many more NA albums than either Krautrock or those "trancey" remix cds.

I have listened to most everything they're released. Even the many cds their released and "redone" over the last 2-3 years. I have followed their sound since the late 1970s. I have also kept an eye and ear on other New Age artists and also countless other forms/styles/genres of electronic-based music. I am well aware of TD's shift in sound over the years.

Their "space/ambient" albums are perfect examples of the early New Age sound. That was before the music of artists like Tangerine Dream, Jarre, Vangelis and Klaus Schulze became more "watered down" versions of their mid 1970s works. In the late 1970s and in the 1980s a new breed of artists like Michael Garrison, Jonn Serrie, Constance Demby, etc started making their own "space/ambient" New Age Music. A large portion of New Age Music is "spacey" and most New Age contains a lot of "ambience" or ambient sounds and textures.

Not only is most of Tangerine Dream's music New Age but they helped shape the sound of New Age continously over the years. Their influence on other genres pretty music ended by the end of the 1970s. (imho) Dunk meister 03:26, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Your suggestion of "Tangerine Dream's sound has been a major force and influence in New Age Music over the years" sounds reasonable. It think it would also be fitting to mention Tangerine Dream's pivotal role in the development of Krautrock. You can't read anything about Krautrock without seeing prominent mention of Tangerine Dream. Indeed, Krautrocksampler has an entire chapter devoted to the band. Kaldari 03:46, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

How about" Tangerine Dream and their sound has been a major force and influence in New Age Music over the years". I agree that calling groups with a varied output a "newage" or whatever group may be a bit much even though New Age Music is an ever evolving genre. Sort of like the way "techno" has expanded over the years.

I also recognize their early work has contributions to "Krautrock" and to some degree "Prog-rock". The same goes for Can, Faust, etc. But TD's input in those areas was what? 2-3 albums? Sadly, TD's more experimental stage didn't last long but there were others who took the reigns in the experimental soundscapes field. Dunk meister 07:31, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Tangerine Dream's early 45 Ultima Thule and the first four "Pink Period" LPs are typically considered "Krautrock" (leaning towards the Kosmiche subgenre). Considering there are probably only 50 or so definitive Krautrock albums, that's not an insignificant contribution. What do you think about this wording:

"Due to their pioneering experimentation with electronic music, Tangerine Dream became a defining force in the evolution of such genres as Krautrock, New Age, and Space music."

Kaldari 23:28, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Tangerine Dream's early "Pink Years" albums are their least known. Most people and their fans known their late 1970s and 1980s output. I'm not saying their early output were Krautrock or were important but it's a very small percentage of the albums their released. The Krautrock mention would maybe fit better on the Krautrock page if you think they are part of the only 50 or so definitive albums. Possibly make mention to early TD's Krautrock importance in a seperate line?

The type of Space Music Tangerine Dream created is included in "New Age". It's one of or the largest type of New Age Music.

Tangerine Dream are best known for their dreamy, spacey atmospheric music that is known as New Age. Most of their ex members also went on to create important New Age albums and labels. I've give many examples already of this.

I think this statement is very accurate and represents the majority of their and their ex members output. That's unless you want to also mention all the soundtrack work too. How about: "Tangerine Dream, it's revolving members and the group's sound has been a major force and influence in New Age Music over the years" Dunk meister 05:06, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Tangerine Dream is already mentioned in half the paragraphs of the Krautrock article, in fact they are the first band mentioned. I don't think there is need to add more about them there. I disagree with your assessment of the notariety of Tangerine Dream's Pink albums. Among the new generation of post-rock fans (people who listen to bands like Tortoise and Godspeed You! Black Emperor), they are the best known. (And of course among Krautrock afficionados as well.) If you go to any trendy record store these days, you won't see copies of Melrose sitting around. Instead you'll see 180g vinyl reissues of the Pink Albums (sitting next to the Neu! and Faust reissues) or one of the many compilations of Tangerine Dream's early work that have been selling like hotcakes to twenty-something-year-old hipsters. Take a look at Pitchfork, for example: The only Tangerine Dream albums they have reviewed are: Electronic Meditation (which is quite a popular album these days despite the fact that it once languished in total obscurity), Alpha Centauri, Tangerine Dream: Journey Through a Burning Brain (Anthology) (which they pan except for the Pink Years material), and Tangerine Dream: The Analogue Space Years (1969-1973). Among critics and music historians, those albums are second only to the Virgin Period in importance, and these days I'd venture the Pink Period is catching up. Kaldari 06:03, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Ok. I agree about the importance and notoriety of the early Pink Years albums. I own a few of them myself. More can and probably should be added about their importance to Krautrock. I also feel that because of the bulk of their releases were "New Age Music" that a reference to that is needed. I don't think a reference to "space" is needed. How about something like ""Tangerine Dream, it's revolving members and the group's sound has been a major defining force and influence in Krautrock and New Age Music over the years"Dunk meister 21:21, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'll accept that Space music is covered under New Age (although I'm sure others would object to this assertion). I think we're definitely getting close to something usable. My only remaining concern with your suggestion is that it has lots of redundancy and isn't that readable. "Tangerine Dream", "its revolving members", and "the group's sound" all seem redundant to me. Why not just say "Tangerine Dream"? "Tangerine Dream" encompasses the band members and the group's sound, does it not? Also "defining force" and "influence" are mostly redundant. I would prefer to use one or the other. Kaldari 21:35, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

You're right. Tangerine Dream does encompass all of it's members past and present. I would go for "defining force" since they were one of the top 5 bands/artists who help shape the New Age sound (overall) over the years. Would "Tangerine Dream has been a defining force in Krautrock and New Age Music throughout the years" be better? Or maybe "Tangerine Dream has been a defining influencial force in Krautrock and New Age Music throughout the years" be ok? I think it looks and sounds better with those redundant terms are combined. Dunk meister 04:40, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

AS usual, it seems like TD's music can't be pegged into one hole. I think we need a paragraph on musical styles. Depending on the album and the track, there are elements of most major genres: space, krautrock, Berlin school, prog rock, jazz, opera and so forth. To me, that's one of the appeals: they are not limited to one style. And yes, New Age music (that's an article in need of some help). --Gadget850 ( Ed) 00:21, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the New Age Music section on Wikipedia needs some work. I can help with that if needed. New Age is one of those genres that has many influences. That's why we see some New Age artists or albums that have a "jazzy" feel to them or some of the early NA albums (re- Gandalf's 1981 album 'Journeys to an Imaginary Land) had a more "prog rock" sound go them. Costance Demby, Jonn Serrie and other NA artists take the "space" route on many of their albums. Those artists and many other NA artists have created "Celtic" influenced albums as well thus they have help define and expand NA music over the years.

As for getting into the seperate styles on seperate albums or tracks by Tangerine Dream I think such info would be best placed on the seperate pages for each album. If or when such pages exist or are created. Dunk meister 04:40, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

This may sound better as well ""Tangerine Dream has been a defining force in New Age Music throughout the years" followed by "Their early "Pink Years" albums were also pivotal in the development Krautrock" Dunk meister 03:21, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I switched it around to chronological order, since it seemed more logical. Hopefully the current wording will be something everyone can agree on. Kaldari 03:44, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, this wording is better suited. It doesn't just label the group, but shows their influence in a more moderate way. Good job ! --LimoWreck 12:49, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Good job! I think it works. I'd also like to help out on the 'New Age Music' page in the future. It helps to show the connections, influences, etc (between artists/music & New Age Music) on the related artists' pages here. Next is Klaus Schulze whose modern classical, spacey, dreamy synthesizer music was also played a huge role in New Age Music's developement. Dunk meister 01:03, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, much better, and an improved article as a result. Well done everyone for being sensible about it. Naturenet | Talk 09:12, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Check out the new draft version of New Age music at Talk:New Age music. Looks really good to me. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:00, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

I think that most people today would percieve Pink/Virgin era Tangerine Dream as "their parents new age music" or "soundtrack music". I mean electronic music now, is considered something which is lots of bells and whistles, as opposed to the early more "neo classical" stylings of KS, TD, etc.User: Aoecean

I believe that (imho) pigeonholing music and artists into various genres is necessary in order to inform and educate about music theory and playing instruments, for example, though I suppose that the music industry make use of it also for market analysis. --Avengers 05:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

What Polish film?

The article says about Froese, "late 1960s, when he scored an obscure Polish film." Are there any references on this? No results from Google (except for the wikipage), not to mention the official pages. AdSR 22:33, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

The only film I kno' TD (or Froese) having scored as erly as in the late 60s is "Auf Scheißer schießt man nicht". I don't see any explicit notion about the country of origin, but since everyone involved appears to be German & the director's last name is "Pohland", I'd bet the "Polish" notion is a misunderstanding. Tropylium 11:46, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I think I actually got that from the official TD site (they had the title but I didn't include it because it seemed like too much detail for a film nobody had ever heard of). But that site looks to be down at the moment. Jerry Kindall 04:32, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Unreverting

84.223.152.238 recently reverted the article all the way back to an edition from April 15th, summarizing the edit as "removed edits of a mad isolationist man". WTF? Sorry, but I'm unreverting - I see no "mad isolationism" anywhere. The article was progressing well.

I also organized the article a bit further, but the "History" stretch could still use sum work. There's a few paragrafs that don't seem to fit in with the flo' - in particular, the one about lyrics. I mooved it down a bit, but it still sticks out a bit.

(BTW, it might be worth a mention that the discography update by 80.186.143.184 was actually me - wiki for sum reason didn't recognize me as beïng logged in.) Tropylium 14:34, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Well done, friend, please go on.--Doktor Who 20:45, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Discography

Some thoughts:

• It's probably time to consider forking the discography.
• The dates need to be de-linked per the Manual of Style.
• Vision Quest was never released as an (official) album.
• The Keep being pulled has never been confirmed (yes, I know the legend). This would best be noted in an article on the album (and that would be an interesting one).
• The lead-in on the discography says "excluding soundtracks", then the soundtracks are listed.

No, this was what it said in the lead-in of the "studio/live" subsection. It's not easy to see while reading, but "Soundtracks" is a separate sub-section. I'm putting the note back & adding hrs for clarity... Tropylium

• Only one minor mention of the Tangerine Tree project.
• No mention of bootlegs, fan releases or covers.

Comments? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:43, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

All excellent suggestions. Please feel free to be bold. Kaldari 17:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Sure. But with consensus and input from others. There is no hurry. --Gadget850 ( Ed)

I would especially love to see an article on The Keep. It's certainly one of the more interesting stories surrounding a TaDream album. Kaldari 19:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

That's going to be a long article. --Gadget850 ( Ed)

Please support or oppose splitting the discography to Tangerine Dream discography:

• support --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:02, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
• support , I also suggest to keep the dates de-linked for the Manual of Style.--Doktor Who 01:02, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
• support & 2nd keeping the dates de-linked. Tropylium

DONE --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:36, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Style

A text list like it is now, or like Pink Floyd discography, Kylie Minogue discography or The Beatles discography. Also, see the nav box at the bottom of the PF and Batles pages. All the PF tracks are documented separately: category listing. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:21, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Before commenting on this, I'd have to kno' how much material you're really planning to include... The complete list is this big. Tropylium 13:31, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

This subject copied to Talk:Tangerine Dream discography --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:58, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

The Keep

Since TK came up, I recommend it go to The Keep (album). There is already an article on the movie at The Keep and a proposal to move it to The Keep (film) and make The Keep a disambiguation page, or leave it for the book. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:31, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

done --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:45, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

BTW: The Keep is now a disambiguation page. Another editor just added pages for the novel and the graphic novel, so there is a full suite of Keep related articles. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:20, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Anonimous editors

Some anonimous editors are deleting/delisting albums from the discography, please explain, even with simple words such as "the x album is an unofficial release, and so on...." or I will ask to protect the page.--Doktor Who 10:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I've already reverted twice today. Since the 3RR rule as applying to vandalism is applied arbitrarily, I'm not reverting anymore today. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:35, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

We need to create Tangerine Dream discography. any suggestion?--Doktor Who

Moving to the subject above. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:50, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Phaedra - Instrumentation

Quote from the text

"The creation of the album's title track for was something of a fluke; the band was experimenting in the studio with a recently-acquired VCS 3 synthesizer, and the tape happened to be rolling at the time."

The sequence that forms the basis of the title track to "Phaedra" was made with the recently acquired Moog Modular. Edgar had a VCS3 in 1971 although they had used one on "Alpha Centauri". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.110.109.208 (talk • contribs)

Line-up

It seems that Jerome Froese is no longer a full member of the band, but the forum on their website doesn't confirm or deny. He's not joined the recording of their last studio album, so we may assume that he's on iatus. So, let's change the article or not? Dr. Who 00:34, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

The FAQ still lists Edgar and Jerome as the only band members, excluding Thorsten, despite of his participation in "Jeanne D'Arc" (dunno about the last CD, 'cause I don't have it yet :( ). I would suggest to wait until the FAQ shows a change, or maybe ask directly to Eastgate/Edgar (?) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Equinoxe (talk • contribs) 23:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

You might be right, though de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangerine Dream lists Jerome as a former member, so, who knows...--Dr. Who 23:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Links

This section could use a teeeeny bit of work.

• I added a bunch of forums; addition of TaDream was long overdue, but the others are pretty minor. In the case of EMforum.li and EMportal.info this is however because of them being two competing successors of the late EMforum.nl (that used to be hosted by the Groove label); one or the other might eventually die out while the other becomes the EM scene hub, or they might both prosper, but @TM it's not possible to tell.
• I had to remoov "Tangerine Dream Great Discography", since the tdgd.eu link or broken and the non-redirect address - tubularcamilho dot piranho dot com - triggers an anti-spam response for some reason. It seemed a bit amateurish to me anyway, but it being in German could be useful. But since VitN is pretty much the de facto standard place for reliable TD information, mentioning normal discographies other than that and our own might not be required at all. Rainer's site has some good info on CDR boots, so I left it in... James Owen's comprehensiv bootleg tracklist [5] might also be worth of a link?
• As far as misc. resorces go, there is also a Tangerine Dream webring [6] altho AIUI it's not of all that much importance. I've also contemplated linking Klaus Beschorner's site [7], not necessarily for his central role in the TD trading community (irrelevant for the purposes of this article), but for the "More useful TD files from other people's sites" section (incl. the previously mentioned bootleg discography & the fan-compiled TD FAQ) and his wide selection (to the point of being positivistic) of links.

--Tropylium 13:16, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

My opinion: If a See also link or External link is really applicable to the article, then it should be included in the body as a cite. See also and External links should be kept to a minimum. Per Wikipedia:External links, forums should not be linked. Also see Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:03, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps I should note that if this article is reviewed for GA or FA, this will come up. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 00:31, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

per, de facto, prrrrrr, you are so boring, you and latin. :P Doktor Who 23:52, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. My life is complete. Carpe canem. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 00:31, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Haha, nothing personal, but teachers told me that the use of words of latin and/or french origin sounds strange to native speakers of English, and that in UK this is regarded as snobbish and aristocratic (I just would say stinky old. Doktor Who 00:43, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

The teachers who told you that were apparently misinformed. "The use of words of latin and/or french origin"—and for that matter of certain actual French and Latin words and phrases (and standard abbreviations for such, e.g. "i.e.") has been commonplace in English writing for centuries, and therefore does not "sound strange to native speakers of English". Just correcting a falsehood, for the sake of anyone reading this who doesn't already know. False vacuum (talk) 19:48, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

N.b.: Not to imply that I agree with the blanket ban on linking forums, or the idea that "external links" sections are somehow bad. False vacuum (talk) 19:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

The article is slowly becoming very good, and I have also more ideas to further improve it (I'll be back soon).Doktor Who 00:43, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

"The Tangerines"

81.145.241.4 seems to have added this quote:

 (prior to this [being called "Tangerine Dream"; -ed.] the group had gone under the title of The Tangerines.)

Hafta call sauce on that; it's complete news to me. It doesn't appear in any of the band's histories I've redd (the booklets of the DRC & the iBox, the three latest incarnations of their website, and several magazine articles) so I'm a bit suspicious. --Tropylium 08:33, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I saw a flyer for the Zodiak club the other day (dated 1968). Btw most TD band histories just trot out the same stuff again and again. TD also played under the title of 'the Tangerine Dream band'

Fair use rationale for Image:Tangerinedream.JPG

Image:Tangerinedream.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:23, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Members

The members list in the infobox has a potential to expand... a lot. The best option would be to fork off a list, perhaps "Tangerine Dream members and guest artists" or "Tangerine Dream lineups." What criteria would we use for members? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:16, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

It would be better to have a timeline like in the Genesis article, IMHO. Equinoxe 21:07, 20 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Equinoxe (talk • contribs)

It is neat, but I don't think it would work as well for TD since there are members and a multitude of guest artists. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 21:27, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Add them all, that's what I say, if a Wiki entry isn't as complete as you can make then what's the point? 86.16.98.49 (talk) 08:11, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Tangerine Dream collaborating with Jon Anderson of Yes

The Wikipedia article for Legend (film) states that the song "Loved By The Sun" was featured in the film, with music by Tangerine Dream and with lyrics written and sung by Jon Anderson, leader of the group Yes. I noticed it because I recognized the voice of Anderson, but was surprised to find Tangerine Dream credited with the song.

This article about Tangerine Dream ought to reflect that the group collaborated with Jon Anderson of Yes.

--— sloth_monkey 01:38, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

See Legend (Tangerine Dream soundtrack). I would not call it a collaboration. To my knowledge, they never actually worked with Anderson, as the vocals were added after they recorded "Loved By The Sun". ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 12:33, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Even if it was not what would typically be thought of as a collaboration, the fact that Tangerine Dream made a song where Jon Anderson did the vocals is worthy of mention in this article as it is a notable connection to the band Yes. If you want to call it something other than a collaboration, that is worth thinking about as a matter of semantics, but it doesn't change the fact that such a thing occurred. It should be added to the article, but how it ought to be added is up to whoever wants to edit this thing. I'll take a stab at it if no one else does, but otherwise have at it. --— sloth_monkey 07:13, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I didn't mean to say it had to be in the main article on Tangerine Dream; if it were more appropriate to place the info in Tangerine Dream discography that could make sense too. --— sloth_monkey 07:18, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Okay, so I added it to the discography page as a minor notation concerning the release of the Legend soundtrack. I kept it concise as just a single sentence. --— sloth_monkey 07:43, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

2 albums that featured lyrics

There is another one - I think it's the first Tangerin Dream album with lyrics ever- Alpha Centauri. This are the lyrics:

Der Geist der Liebe erfüllt den Kosmos und der das All zusammenhält kennt jeden Laut. Der Geist steht auf seine Feinde zerstieben und die ihn hassen fliehen vor seinem Angesicht. Sende aus deinen Geist und Leben entsteht und also erneuerst du das Antlitz der Erde. Komm Geist erfülle die Herzen deiner Menschen und entzünde in ihnen das Feuer deiner ewigen Liebe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.160.73.119 (talk) 16:52, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure that these overdubbed spacey words should qualify as being considered "lyrics." If so, we might have to consider things such as Meng Tian as they include vocal samples. More realistically, however, Kiev Mission, Brother or Stranger, Loved by the Sun, etc. all have actual lyrics, but I wouldn't take that to mean that Exit should be considered a lyrical album just because of KM. For that distinction, I'd think we're left with Cyclone, Tyger, Divine Comedy, Madcap's, and maybe Under Cover, depending on whether one sees that release as an album or not. MXVN (talk) 23:34, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Starmus

There was an event called Starmus Festival back in 2011, in which Tangerine Dream participated alongside Brian May, commemorating the 50th anniversary of Yuri Gagarin's space flight. I don't know if this would be relevant to the article but, in case it is, feel free to add the necessary information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.145.124.209 (talk) 10:50, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I'm sure this will eventually have a mention as well. If nobody else does it soon I may end up adding it myself, though I'm more concerned with reworking some things to show the Cupdiscs, Atomic Seasons, and Sonic Poems albums. MXVN (talk) 21:49, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

"Going Independent"

This section needs a rewrite. It explains concert dates in great detail (and are these even important enough to warrant inclusion on the band's main page?), but makes no mention of the Atomic Seasons or the Sonic Poems, or anything of the sort. IMO the direction of the band and its members is far more important than "they played this show, then that show, then another show." Not that the tours should be removed entirely, but surely they could be shortened and some album info brought in. MXVN (talk) 22:32, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

I have added some information to the Going Independent section, and moved the concert updates to their own section below that. This could still be enhanced with some links and further explanations. MXVN (talk) 23:49, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Further Additions to the Discography

I’ve been doing a bit of digging around, and I’ve found the following additional Tangerine Dream albums, most of which are live. Some are cleaned-up bootlegs that were released with the band’s blessing. I’ve included as much info about each album (or set of albums) as best I can. I’d appreciate if someone else could check them out. In my view, a new category should be created called “RETROSPECTIVE” to cover the material released a long time after it was made on stage or in the studio.

“70 – 80”, released in 1980 appears to be a compilation album. As far as I know, it has never been released on CD, so it’s probably a vinyl release. I don’t know what label it was released on. (Virgin)

“Firestarter”, released in 1984. The label is unknown. (MCA LP, Varese Sarabande CD)

The Sanctuary label released a pair of multi-CD sets in 2003. They are…

“Bootleg Box, Vol. 1” is a collection of recordings of live shows from 1974-76. It has AT LEAST 7 CDs, as follows… Disc 1 = Sheffield, England; Discs 2 & 3 = Royal Albert Hall, London; Disc 4 = Berlin Philharmonie; Discs 5 & 6 = Pabellion de la Casilla, Bilbao, Disc 7=Fairfield Hall, Croydon.

“Bootleg Box, Vol. 2” is a similar set to Vol. 1, but comprises AT LEAST 4 CDs of gigs between 1976-83, as follows… Disc 1 = Nottingham; Disc 2 & 3 = Lisner Auditorium, Washington DC; Disc 4 = Audimax, Hamburg.

In 2010, the Cleopatra label released “The Epsilon Journey: Live in Eindhoven, 2008”

The Esoteric Recordings Reactive label released a pair of CD box-sets in 2015 and 2016. They are…

“The Official Bootleg Series Volume 1” is a 4-CD set of gigs at Reims Cathedral in 1973, and the Mozarthalle, Mannheim. They are cleaned-up bootlegs that were released with the full permission of TD. I have a copy of this set, and I can confirm the excellent quality (musically and sonically) of this collection.

“The Official Bootleg Series Volume 2” is another 4-CD set of gigs at the Palais des Congres, Paris in March 1978 and the Palast der Republik, East Berlin in January 1980. Again, they are reconstituted bootlegs of good quality, with the approval of the band.

Some of the above data comes from www.planetmellotron,com

Taff Hewitt (talk) 00:26, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Firestarter is already at #23. For brevity we are so far not listing the compilations in the short version here, but they are included in the more detailed article at Tangerine Dream discography. --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 15:53, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Chris / Christoph / Christopher Franke

There's been a few edits changing Franke's first name in various ways. Note that his name in his own Wikipedia article is "Christopher". Note also that there are also articles for a "Chris Franke" (a poet) and a "Christoph Franke" (a football coach). If one is to make changes to Hr Franke's first name, do take care to ensure the links are properly updated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bflaminio (talk • contribs) 22:58, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Ulrich Schnauss

Ulrich Schnauss is no longer a member of Tangerine Dream. His bio has been removed from Tangerine Dream's official website and he now listed as a former member (2014 – 2020) 82.26.24.112 (talk) 10:30, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Status as a band after Edgar Froese's death?

Edgar Froese sadly died on 20th January. Does that mean that Tangerine Dream will cease to exist as a group? The article should be edited to reflect that.--86.152.228.79 (talk) 10:49, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Too early to tell now. Surely there will be an official announcement. --  Gadget850 ^talk 11:33, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

The way the article has been edited, however, implies the band will continue, with Quaeschning, Yamane and Schnauss listed as current members. That is not supported by citations. I'll try to fix that somehow. Bondegezou (talk) 11:48, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Again, we have no way to know until there is an announcement. Jerome or Thorsten might take over or the TD group may just end. There are concerts scheduled and we don't know the status. I anticipate a memorial concert that would be released as a TD album. But without sources, we can only speculate. We could state that no announcement has been made on the status of the group. --  Gadget850 ^talk 12:16, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I hope this answers many questions. I'd consider Jerome to be an official source. However, no word from Bianca at this point. Other than that, in my heart Tangerine Dream is indeed dead, not only because Edgar Froese is dead, but also Jerome has pretty much summed it up for all of us. I will continue to follow his work, as long as it is similar to his dad's work. Posted on Facebook: By Jerome Froese --Molokaicreeper (talk) 01:03, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

As a counterpoint, Peter Baumann says he's working with Bianca to continue Tangerine Dream: http://prog.teamrock.com/news/2015-02-23/tangerine-dream-to-live-on-vows-peter-baumann -- I guess the real question is who owns the rights to the band now, Jerome or Bianca? Bflaminio (talk) 01:49, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

It appears that Tangerine Dream will continue as a band without Edgar Froese (and despite Jerome's comment). They released new studio material in 2015 and plan to release a new album in 2016. So, for those edit-warring "are" vs "were" on the main page, please stop.

Just before Edgar died he left instructions for the band to continue under the leadership of Thorsten Quaeschning, together with the members he (Edgar) had hand-picked: Ulrich Schnauss and Hoshiko Yamane. Together with the copyright holder (Bianca, Edgar's wife), TD will continue to carry out Edgar's last wishes as he wanted. The hugely successful album Quantum Gate is the result. Several hard-disks of material from Edgar were also left and will be used as the source material for several (9?) further studio albums. One of Edgar's wishes, before he died, was that TD would return to improvised or semi-improvised live music - and the current line-up will continue doing this during the second half of their concerts. The next studio album will be released in 2020. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.19.197.231 (talk) 14:02, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Tangerine Dream and especially Thorsten Quaeschning are fulfilling a direct wish from Edgar Froese. TD's music follows strict rules originally developed by TD/Edgar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.24.112 (talk) 10:33, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Schmoelling's joining?

I was pretty sure Johannes joined in early 1980, with his first appearance being on the Pergamon show. The article says "in the late '70s." It is possible he joined in late '79, but we should be able to determine this with sourcing. No way was he there before '79, and I think as far as we can tell the correct year is indeed 1980 and not anything in the '70s. Am I wrong, or should I make a correction? MXVN (talk) 06:07, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Johannes joined in 1979 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.19.197.231 (talk) 13:55, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

The Early Beginnings liner notes tell that he audited for TD in summer 1979, including being given a month to compose a few example electronic tracks, so probably he was accepted into the band around the early fall.

It's not very clear what TD was doing for most of the second half of 1979 though. Force Majeure was recorded already in the summer of 1978 shortly after Jolliffe's departure, the cancelled German tour was planned for the spring, and Voices in the Net tells that even Stuntman was recorded during the summer already. --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 19:40, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Force Majeure's recording session started August, Johannes didn't join Tangerine Dream until 1979 after a friend of his had worked on Edgar Froese's solo, album Stuntman was released October 12, 1979. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.24.112 (talk) 10:39, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Name

Says the name was inspired by mishearing the Beatles lyrics but those were the correct lyrics? — Preceding unsigned comment added by R4h4al (talk • contribs) 22:34, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Monika Froese said it was, Edgar Froese said it wasn't or said that he couldn't/wouldn't fully explain the meaning behind it 82.26.24.112 (talk) 10:40, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Spa and Perica

Spa is a Past Member? Does she left TD? Nothing found about that on her webpage. --88.70.45.166 (talk) 18:07, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

I would actually argue that she was never a true member, except maybe during the '90s. She has only contributed (to my knowledge) one track (Elf June) ... well, and part of Story of the Brave, and since then has always been regarded as a member of the live band but not the actual songwriting team. It would seem that the actual MEMBERS are Edgar and Thorsten, with everyone else being stage musicians. She doesn't even *play* on any of the studio stuff outside of Madcap's and Under Cover, and those 2 were specifically different as they included all the members of the live band. MXVN (talk) 23:27, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I have had to do some reworking of this on the main page. Spa, as well as Iris Camaa and Bernhard Beibl, were listed as former full members. What we need to agree on is who was and was not a member. If the regular, continuing, touring members of the band (not one-off appearances) are to be considered members, they should be listed, but with a tag such as (live only). If they are not, then none of them should be listed in these sections. Previously, the article was inconsistent in that it named some recurring touring members as members, while labeling others as guest musicians. I have cleaned this up for consistency, though I think it is still grey area whether these touring musicians from the 1990s until now are actually band members. For now I'll just say yes, because if some of them are, and have appeared in promotional materials (as they all have), then they should all be considered as such. But the (live only) tag should clear up that they were not actually composing members during the time periods in question. MXVN (talk) 23:43, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

I started a discussion on Template talk:Tangerine Dream some years ago and the template at that time was based on that list there. --  Gadget850 ^talk 22:53, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Okay, fair enough. I'm not sure if I should do this here or on that page (I'll just post to both), but I'd like to open up the topic for discussion that if Bernhard and Iris were considered band members, then Zlatko Perica should possibly also be considered a former member as he played consistently with the band live, played on two studio albums, and indeed did appear on promotional band pictures during the Seattle Years. If there is a significant reason why he should be excluded from that designation, that's fine, but many of the earliest members who only appeared for a tour or before Electronic Meditation are still called former members. It would seem to me that he was as much a member as these others from about 1992 to 1997, and then guested briefly in 2003 and 2005 (though he was interviewed in the 2005 SBE video as though he was a member). Was he just forgotten about? ... And I also see that Iris is considered a member as of 2001, but Emil Hachfeld wasn't considered one before she came in. Maybe this last part is how it should be, but this is all a little confusing, is it not? Why are Iris and Bernhard former members? We should be consistent with our definitions. MXVN (talk) 02:55, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

It's been a while since the idea was brought up, and so far nobody has argued against placing Zlatko Perica in the category of "former member." I'm still hesitant to go forward without waiting long enough to hear a solid reason why he shouldn't be. So I'm throwing it out there again before I proceed with any changes. MXVN (talk) 06:16, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Bernhard Beibl, Iris Camaa and Lina Spa were all dropped from Tangerine Dream to save money. Edgar Froese said privately that he was bored by the direction they had found themselves in (and especially by the 2014 European tour), and this eventually lead to the idea of the Quantum Years, which he hoped to start with a concert in London in 2015. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.24.112 (talk) 10:31, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Can members dropped from the band purely down to financial considerations be considered full band members? 82.26.24.112 (talk) 10:42, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Schulze

The article doesn't say when, or why, Schulze left the group. Could somebody add that, please? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 00:12, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

"Franke joined '70 to replace Schulze" is intended to convey Schulze left the same year (or perhaps just barely in '69, but at that timeframe anyway). Suggestions for rewording? --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 23:05, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Klaus was in TD for 8-9 months, approx summer (August?) 1969 - March 1970. He also rejoined in 1973 for a week or so to cover an absent Peter Baumann for a French tour in 1973. 82.26.24.112 (talk) 09:55, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

San Rafael '71 Marijuana Strain - Tangerine Dream

I'm going to propose a new add to the 'In Popular Culture' section, as there is currently a marijuana strain in Canada called 'Tangerine Dream' https://www.leafly.ca/strains/tangerine-dream

Beware, as "too much Tangerine Dream may leave you stuck in the couch." Martinevans123 (talk) 20:49, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

"Tangerine Dream" was used as a color of cloth as early as the 1930's — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.24.112 (talk) 08:23, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Logos

Where is it?

1982 173.22.131.123 (talk) 21:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)