Talk:Survivor 44

Cast list sortability

Why isn't the cast list table's column of "From" sortable? Obviously, because it is tagged "class=unsortable", but is there a good reason for the tag? SDSpivey (talk) 18:45, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

@SDSpivey: Given that the location is a combination of both a providence/state/territory and a city, it might have some issues when attempting to sort. Adding to that, it isn't clear to me if it should sort alphabetically by city or by region. --Super Goku V (talk) 01:28, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

FYI, it would sort alphabetically by the city. I see no reason for needing that. Bgsu98 (Talk) 02:11, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Ah, gotcha and thank you for clearing this up. --Super Goku V (talk) 06:07, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Merged tribe

Can anyone help to change the merged tribe name from “TBA” to “Va Va” QUEKM2009 (talk) 11:16, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Is there a reliable source that establishes that that’s the name? Bgsu98 (Talk) 11:34, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

CBS YouTube Xoruz (talk) 13:21, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

I'd be against us putting in info about items that haven't actually been aired. It's hardly a spoiler, but the actual name means very little unless it's written about in prose. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:25, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Okay, looks good to me. Bgsu98 (Talk) 21:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Contestant Photos

The removal of Carson is in line with 99% of the other Survivor title pages in regards to pictures by only having famous contestants, the Sole Survivor and returnees who became Sole Survivors, contestants with Wikipedia pages, and contestants that have played more than once on it. With recent allegations of fraud and theft against Carson by very prominent puzzle sellers, it would be inappropriate to have him on the Wikipedia page until the matter is solved or addressed by him, as well as it being alleged that he added this photo of him himself. Dylan Fourie (talk) 05:18, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't know why any of that would matter. We include images of people that appeared on the show if we can get a free image to use. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 05:49, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

then why not just add the entire cast to every page. pictures of every single person on Survivor Wiki Dylan Fourie (talk) 07:51, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Those are not free images. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:29, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

they literally do not have to be free. Survivor Wiki has no connection to the production of Survivor and use interviews and the photos. Dylan Fourie (talk) 08:32, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Survivor Wiki isn't Wikipedia. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:08, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

if it has to be free, then why accept an official staff photo from NASA that isn't free. Dylan Fourie (talk) 08:40, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Please see [1] where the license is shown that the image is in the public domain (free to use by CC-BY-SA). Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:09, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. His photo should be removed as he has no notoriety. The photo has been suspected to have been added by Carson himself or one of his loyal supporters after they (or he) failed in creating a page for him (or himself). I also suspect sockpuppets are on this page. Kokaynegeesus (talk) 19:48, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

What? It really makes no difference to Wikipedia who uploaded the image. It's a public domain image. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:05, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

If we add his photo, we ought to add the fact that he allegedly scammed another puzzle making company. OnceAdream93 (talk) 21:11, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Provide a reliable source. Bgsu98 (Talk) 21:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/survivor-44s-carson-garrett-accused-of-stealing-puzzle-ideas/

Here we go. He's being accused of it. I removed the photo in question along with a linked news article. OnceAdream93 (talk) 21:15, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

To further build on this, if we are to include Carson's image without any associated wikipedia article, I believe we should create a "cast controversy" section. This should provide further context on Carson, especially as it's obvious he, or his friends, continually readd his image. OnceAdream93 (talk) 21:23, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

I have zero idea how the image of a person on the show has any connection to this. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:40, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Should we include this in the article? It is obvious that Carson himself is ensuring that his image stays on this page for the purpose of self promotion. He isn't a noteworthy competitor, unless we consider his allegations. OnceAdream93 (talk) 12:16, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

@OnceAdream93 Feel free to add that to the article if you believe it is appropriate. Bgsu98 (Talk) 12:38, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

I fail to see why we would think that the person in question is adding the image... nor why it would particularly matter if he was aside from our WP:COI rules.

Images on Wikipedia are for illustrative pirpose. Having an image of one or more of the people on the show help to illustrate the encyclopedia. It matters not if the person is particularly famous, rather that the image meets our copyright obligations. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:57, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Would it be alright if I added every single cast members photo, then? This is unusual for other survivor pages. Most just post images of noteworthy contestants, such as professional athletes. 2605:59C8:22AF:DA10:1546:6ECB:C660:ED22 (talk) 04:20, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Do you have such free images? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:06, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't. But don't you find it odd that the only image of a contestant is someone who didn't win, doesn't have their own page, and has made efforts to remove other images that are not of themselves? 2605:59C8:22AF:DA10:784D:B8BE:9144:DCE0 (talk) 02:36, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Who is it that has "made efforts to remove other images" - could you point me to those diffs? Realistically, we don't care too much about how the person got on, only that the image is free and that it illustrates the articles. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:19, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Brandon Cottom, a person with his own Wikipedia page, had his image removed. Carson, a person without a wikipedia page, still has his image on the page. Given Carson's proclivity to self promote himself, his business, and the controversy related to his business, it leads me to believe he, or his friends, are editing this page in his favour -- in any case, Brandon's image should be reinstated. 2605:59C8:22AF:DA10:1CB:542F:DECB:450F (talk) 22:25, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Brandon's picture was of the back of his head. Give me a fucking break. Provide a free image of his face and we'll be glad to post it along with any other Survivor contestants. Bgsu98 (Talk) 22:29, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

interesting how you deleted Brandon's picture her but not on his own page. Hmmm. Suspicious. How's life at NASA, Carson? 74.12.0.110 (talk) 17:22, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

I think we should all just WP:DENY this lunacy at this stage. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

We are talking about it on the talk page, and I wasn't doing anything to disrupt the project. I am well within my rights to discuss the page and anything associated with it. I just found it funny how Brandon's image was deleted from this page, but not his own article. Feels like a conflict of interest. And Carson's, despite a clear attempt at self promotion, remains, even though the community has been vocal in asking it to be removed. 2605:59C8:22AF:DA10:7183:CC5E:4083:B123 (talk) 21:51, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Try coming up with a valid policy-backed rationale, and “I don’t like Carson” doesn’t cut it. Bgsu98 (Talk) 18:44, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Your claims seem ridiculous. We have an image of a person on the show. I've asked for some diffs of when the person with the WP:COI edited the page. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:19, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

I think it's safe to remove Carson's image. The last Survivor wikipedia article is Island of the Idols and that has pictures of both Rob and Sandra, the season revolved around them so that makes sense. No article in the 'new era' (41-46) has any cast photos. This article is therefore creating inconsistency and should be removed. Unless there is a valid reason to include Carson's photo, which I don't see discussed here, it should stay off the page until then. ReillyVega (talk) 18:09, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm not really sure what the argument is for not including images on articles. Do we have any free images to use on other such articles? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:44, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

What is your argument for including the image on this article and none of the other recent seasons? ReillyVega (talk) 18:46, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Literally what I just said - what free images do we have that we can add to other articles? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:48, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

None :( So let's keep it consistent with no contestant images for continuity ReillyVega (talk) 18:55, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

So, we have a free image of a person, which is what we do with other articles, and because we don't have free images in a smaller subsection of articles, you want to remove this one? That's not continuity. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:48, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

No other articles from Survivor 40 onwards, besides 44, has a photo of a cast member. Removing the one pictures here provides continuity of no photos. Besides it being a free image, what is the argument for having one cast photo on this page and not the others? ReillyVega (talk) 20:06, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Part of Wikipedia is to well illustrate our articles. We do that on these pages with images of contestants. If you want to get a consensus that we shouldn't have images of contestants on Survivor/reality TV show articles, that's fine. I don't really get why you have such a massive issue with us having an image of a contestant. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:15, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Due to the inconsistency it provides over current articles. I don't understand why you want to create inconsistency across on these pages. The majority consensus on this talk page clearly shows favour of removing the picture here, so I think we can end this discussion and move on. ReillyVega (talk) 20:23, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

I like how you're ignoring the majority consensus in favour of making this page have a big image of Caron on it despite other Survivor articles rarely doing that. 2605:59C8:22AF:DA10:D4C0:AD04:A063:8F60 (talk) 20:27, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Why Carson?

Why is Carson's photo on this post? Seem odd. Like, why? It adds nothing, doesn't have his own wikipedia page and he's not even the winner or even a finalist.

None of the other recent season photos has a cast member picture on it except this one. Uruflick (talk) 18:31, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Try reading right above where you posted this. Bgsu98 (Talk) 18:32, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

The fact that so many are asking this should tell you all that you need to know. Glad to see that Carson has compromised this page for his own self gain. 2605:59C8:22AF:DA10:F83C:F837:FF7:F741 (talk) 23:48, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Is "Carson" in the room with us right now? Jesus Christ. Bgsu98 (Talk) 12:07, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Can y'all at least move it somewhere that doesn't leave a massive negative space in the article then, it sticks out like a sore thumb and is presented without context until you scroll down much further. 128.42.49.148 (talk) 19:04, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

What's it like at NASA, Carson? OnceAdream93 (talk) 20:38, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2024

Remove Carson’s photo in constant line up, or add everyone else’s in too 2600:1004:A044:AF51:44A8:801E:8538:5B93 (talk) 15:27, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. - FlightTime (open channel) 15:34, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

• Support his photo's removal from the article. It clutters the main page and has evoked controversy. Not to mention, the consensus does seem to agree that Carson's image is an inappropriate addition given that other contestant photos were removed while his was the only one left up. Only 1-2 users (one suspected to be Carson himself) keep undoing the dozens of edits that clearly outnumber their stance. Kokaynegeesus (talk) 19:08, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

  I also support this request due to the inconsistency it provides to the recent season articles. ReillyVega (talk) 20:10, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

  I support removing it or adding everyone else's. This page has been compromised by people who know him or are friendly with him, or are just him. They're also ignoring the consensus again and again. OnceAdream93 (talk) 20:29, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Among the contestants was former Seattle Seahawks fullback Brandon Cottom (left) and Carson Garrett (right)

I just reverted the removal due to concerns over lack of consensus and edit waring. However, I do think it should be removed if he's the only image being included as it dose seem to give him undue prominence in relation to the topic. I'll note that Brandon Cottom also has a free image available (not great quality but still) so if we're instant on including any free images of contestants perhaps a multi-image such as this one? Cakelot1 ☞️ talk 11:10, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

All pictures can go, there is no need for any as there aren't any on other recent articles. All in favour of removal of the photos please confirm so we can formalise this and move on. ReillyVega (talk) 11:14, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

I am in favour of removal. OnceAdream93 (talk) 21:35, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

I believe the problem with the Brandon image is that it’s terrible and only shows the back of his head. I didn’t remove the image from the article, but I agreed with that action. Bgsu98 (Talk) 14:17, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

You didn't remove it from *his own page*. It shows a possible conflict of interest. OnceAdream93 (talk) 14:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Can you fucking read? I said I didn't remove it from anywhere. Lunatic. Bgsu98 (Talk) 14:52, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Agreeing with a removal but then not creating consistency across the other related page is potentially the point here. ANYWAY, to keep things civil, all those in favour of removal of all contestant images on this page please say aye ReillyVega (talk) 15:01, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't piss in other people's pools. Brandon's article falls under the umbrella of the Wikipedia football project. If they think his photo is satisfactory for his own personal article, then so be it. Bgsu98 (Talk) 17:41, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

We are all members of wikipedia. I think Brandon's photo is suitable if we're keeping Carson's random ass photo on here. You're insisting this stays when it's obvious that Carson is creating a campaign for self promotion - that's why he tried making his own wikipedia page. OnceAdream93 (talk) 18:56, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

This multi image you've suggested looks good. But it still feels off when compared to the other Survivor pages. It gives Carson, a person known for self-promotion, undue prominence. It also definitely it NOT the consensus to include his image on this page. OnceAdream93 (talk) 16:00, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

This WP:SPA has had nothing but a fixation on Carson since he arrived here. He has also accused me several times of actually being Carson, despite the fact that I have been on Wikipedia for several years and my name and contact information are freely available on my user page. Bgsu98 (Talk) 16:05, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Might I suggest Bgsu98 you strike that remark. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:42, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

I'll do one better. Bgsu98 (Talk) 16:46, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Ok wow, um, moving on...taking into consideration this full Talk page, further discussion here and the inconsistency the pictures provide amongst the other recent Survivor articles, are we ok to remove the pictures from this page? ReillyVega (talk) 16:53, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Realistically, I don't see why this article should be any different from the other 45 articles in the same series which has images that are freely available for use. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:53, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

So despite asking for a consensus we're now ignoring that and going with your personal opinion? ReillyVega (talk) 18:01, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Is this "Consensus" in the room with you right now? Bgsu98 (Talk) 18:04, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Read for the full talk page. ReillyVega (talk) 18:05, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

A Reddit lynch mob consisting of random IPs and other trouble-making WP:SPAs do not get to drive "consensus". Bgsu98 (Talk) 18:13, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

So now you're defining who has a say? There are huge contractions here and back peddling. Multiple users have voiced to remove the pictures.

On the flip side, where is the consensus that the pictures stay? ReillyVega (talk) 18:17, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

I think it's pretty clear that the consensus here is to remove the image. We should go ahead and do so. OnceAdream93 (talk) 23:43, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

"Reddit lynch mob" is an ad-hominem and not a valid rebuttal to the actual consensus on here. Kokaynegeesus (talk) 21:48, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm out of here; do whatever the fuck you want. Bgsu98 (Talk) 01:13, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Literally just stay mad because the consensus is against you. You're a joke. OnceAdream93 (talk) 01:29, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

The images have been removed following the consensus on this Talk page. Any user wishing to add cast photos here should seek consensus to add them. Glad we have all worked together to resolve this. ReillyVega (talk) 07:15, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

There is no consensus here. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 15:18, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I would suggest starting a discussion on the main Survivor article. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 15:21, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Read the full Talk page, a consensus has been established. I see you have added the photo back of Carson only, where is your consensus for this and why haven't you added both photos back? ReillyVega (talk) 15:25, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I really want to assume that the edit was good faith, but it's becoming harder and harder to do so. OnceAdream93 (talk) 19:48, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Hey Bugs 98 I hope you've chilled the fuck out by now! 64.22.229.178 (talk) 16:52, 1 July 2024 (UTC)