Talk:Sprezzatura

Definition inconsistency

There seems to be an inconsistency between the last two paragraphs. The penultimate paragraph states that it is desirable to conceal all affectation and effort in social interaction, whereas the last paragraph states that a poet would try to have his work look like the fruit of much effort rather than an effortlessly graceful and spontaneous creation. Is the last paragraph right?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.173.131.189 (talk) 00:22, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

If we have to follow closely both the contemporary meaning of the word:

Sprezzatura l'essere sprezzante; atteggiamento sprezzante 2 atteggiamento di voluta e ostentata negligenza, proprio di chi si sente molto abile nel fare qualcosa; trascuratezza intenzionale; anche, la cosa in cui tale trascuratezza si manifesta: sprezzatura di stile.

sprezzante che mostra, che ostenta disprezzo

(http://www.garzantilinguistica.it/interna_ita.html)

and the original meaning used by Baldassar Castiglione in "Il Libro del Cortigiano":

"Ma avendo io già piú volte pensato meco onde nasca questa grazia, ... trovo una regula universalissima ... e ciò è fuggir quanto piú si po, e come un asperissimo e pericoloso scoglio, la affettazione; e, per dir forse una nova parola, usar in ogni cosa una certa sprezzatura, che nasconda l'arte e dimostri ciò che si fa e dice venir fatto senza fatica e quasi senza pensarvi. Da questo credo io che derivi assai la grazia;"

so the original definition should be: "disdain or carelessness, so as to make whatever is done or said appear to be without effort and almost without any thought about it"— Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.203.82.194 (talk) 12:49, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Contradictory description of images

"Compared to Perugino’s more youthful representation of Joseph, Raphael’s version of Joseph is considerably more idealized and older. " -- I'm confused by this part because, according to the accompany pics, Raphael's Joseph is clearly the younger looking of the two.72.140.96.54 (talk) 05:00, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

The need for illustrative examples.

I have read Castiglione many times and I think the best expression of Sprezzatura (with all of the high stakes it entails) was from an eleven year old boy. He was with a small group of boys in front of a New York office building on a Summer day. I was early for an appointment. The boy came skating up to a staircase, hopped his board, and himself up on to the banister, sliding all the way down, nailing the landing. As I was at the base of the stairs I could see what his friends could not: the look of sheer terror as he slid, the look of elation and pride as he landed, and the utter nonchalance that swept over his face as he kicked the tail of his board up into his hand as he turned to his friends as if to say, "whatever." Benfidar (talk) 01:19, 10 November 2008 (UTC) Benfidar

While the example of Raphael's painting is interesting, it seems more indicative of the singular interest of an individual author than anything else. Is there a way we could either make the "Examples" section live up to the its (plural noun) name, or more directly link this section to the article as a whole?68.42.68.57 (talk) 04:23, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

The examples are apt.

I first encountered this term in a number of graduate art history courses in Rome and, in every case, Raphael was linked to the meaning of Sprezzatura. The term consistently came up whenever Raphael’s legendary skills were described. I vividly recall how the terms: "seemingly effortless" and "throwaway quality" were consistently used when describing the impressions of those who watched Raphael draw. The traditional story was that Raphael made drawing look so easy that the viewer became convinced they could also draw as well, afterwards.

And, isn't this what genuine artistry really is—to make an illusion so convincing and real for the viewer that they think they can create it also? Moreover, and to achieve this effect, every artist has to practice their craft to the point where the how is subsumed by the what. I'm reminded of the Zen term shibui (simple, subtle, and unobtrusive beauty) and the Zen admonition: "If I point to the moon, don't dwell on my finger!" Also, on this point, only an ambitious self-seeker would intentionally try to make an activity look more difficult and sacrifice artistry for advancement.

Finally, the Raphael and Perugino are indeed apt examples for illustrating the subtlety and nuance of knowledge, skill, and the advancement of awareness in Renaissance painting. [RobertDenteRobertDente (talk) 16:48, 9 April 2014 (UTC)]

There's a word for this?

Makes me think of the Godfather 2, when the guy offers De Niro a rug, and instead of jumping on it, he mulls it over and casually says "Sure, I guess so". I've known a couple of italian people who do this, and I never got it until I read this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.125.175.160 (talk) 02:53, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

yes, but then the WASP applies to it, unawares

For example, when the WASP senator in the same film adopts a certain nonchalance when attempting to downplay his sexual...improprieties ('peccadilloes' ?)...Stonewhite 22:56, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

"Postive and negative attributes" is incoherent

The last paragraph of the "positive and negative aspects" is basically incoherent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.180.123.131 (talk) 08:45, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Agree. It seems to me an over interpretation. Plus, no positive attributes are described!! First of all, Castiglione's concept of "The art that conceals art" is not original with him. It is an antique one and is elaborated by Cicero in his treatise on rhetoric. The stress on the supposed negative aspects of sprezzatura spills over beyond Castiglione's use of the term, into the court politics of those who adopted it. You might say that all rules of politeness have this negative aspect, not just "sprezzatura", in that they require people to make an effort to conceal their "true" feelings. Thus, you may not like Grandma's Christmas gift, but you say "thank you" anyway, out of consideration for her feelings. The idea of sincerity itself as a virtue, however, is a modern one, that only became popular in the Romantic period. Mballen (talk) 01:20, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

too much weight

This example derives from the specialized field of art appreciation. The author has gone into some detail in order to demonstrate the nuances of a painting. It seems to be more an introduction to Art History 101 that a simple illustration of the word in question. Perhaps it could be used as an example of the antithesis of sprezzatura!118.211.143.32 (talk) 22:29, 27 June 2014 (UTC) tim rose june 28 2014

I agree - there should be far less about this one painting and more (non-art) examples instead. 94.119.97.114 (talk) 15:19, 8 May 2015 (UTC)