Talk:Sodium chloride/Archive 1

Old talk

Sodium chloride is essential for life.not

Rephrased this rather inaccurate poo formulation.

This saline solution can be prepared by dissolving 0.88 gram of sodium chloride in 100 ml of distilled water.

Removed this sentence because it is a tautology of the preceeding sentence (0.9% NaCl is physiological solution), but is numerically inconsistent (0.9% vs 0.85%).
—Herbee 12:55, 2004 Apr 6 (UTC)

This page needs more subheadings and quite a bit of reorganization. I'll put it on my list, but if someone else gets here first-- Elf | Talk 21:37, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I did a reorganization and a slight wikification on April 18. I read that 0.9% salt in normal saline is in fact an osmolality, does this refer to moles or grams? I was thinking that the osmosis info in here is incorrect, but I'll look into that before I edit. This is one of my first big edits, so please head over to my talk page and leave me your comments :) --MGM 13:53, Apr 18, 2004 (UTC)

If I remember corectly, when a statment reads "...contains 0.9% of X" it is assumed to be mass %. At least this is the convention in the enginering disipline.

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Solde and soldier come from sal? Salary comes from sal, but I thought the other terms came from solidus, a "solid" Roman "shilling". Chameleon 13:58, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The American Heritage Dictionary gives them separate Indo-European roots (sal- for salt, sol- for whole), so it looks like they don't even have a more distant relationship. I've removed the passage accordingly. Josh

Should this be merged with Edible salt

Should this be merged with Edible salt?

Certainly not! Sodium chloride is a major industrial chemical (edible salt is, in quantity terms, a rather minor use I believe). It's also the archetypal ionic compound. The only reason the article doesn't fully reflect that is simply that the chemists haven't really sunk their teeth into it yet - we only have a couple of people contributing on industrial chemistry. WP:Chem plans to upgrade this article, which will mean adding detailed sections on its chemical properties. By the time the project has raised it to A-class standard it will be twice as long, and the content will look much more like sodium sulfate. I suspect most chefs will not be interested to know about solvation with crown ethers, or production figures for NaCl products! Walkerma 14:25, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree. ~K 20:53, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Moving old chembox data here

Thermochemistry Δ_fH⁰_gas -181.42 kJ/mol Δ_fH⁰_liquid -385.92 kJ/mol Δ_fH⁰_solid -411.12 kJ/mol S'⁰_{gas, 100 kPa} 229.79 J/(mol·K) S⁰_{liquid, 1 bar} 95.06 J/(mol·K) S⁰_solid 72.11 J/(mol·K)

This is the old chembox data that doesn't transfer to the new chembox. I'll be changing the old chembox to the new style now. ~K 20:53, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

These data have now been placed in their new "home" on the NaCl supplementary data page. Walkerma 02:26, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Revert on food additive section

I reverted an addition to this section just now for three reasons:

1. The new piece was written in very poor English, with many spelling mistakes
2. It appears to promote a particular brand of low-Na salt
3. It duplicates material covered here; the existing piece is written very clearly and succinctly. Walkerma 02:12, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Salt March of Gandhi

I may not have written it in there, but honestly, does that piece really need some online page for citing? I mean, perhaps at the very most, it could have a link to the wikipedia page about his salt march.

That sounds like a good idea, I've just added such a link. Also, since many references abound to this on the web, I'm going to add a citation, too. Rbulling 15:58, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

The pH of Salt

What's the pH of sodium chloride?

I'm pretty sure it's almost exactly 7, or neutral. That's because it's the salt of a strong acid and a strong base. Walkerma 01:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

== Crystal Structure ==

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Hello everyone. Under the image of the crystal structure of NaCl, it says "Each atom has four nearest neighbors, with octahedral geometry.". I think this is incorrect. Each atom has 6 1st neighbors of the other species and 12 2nd neighbors of the same species. I'm not 100% confident so I wont edit but if someone more competent can check it out it would be great. Thx. Patrick's Hubris 20:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

(edit concerning Octahedral geometry) I can absolutely see the six neighboring atoms forming the vertices of an Octahedron. Jlindbergh 12:37, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Addition of 3d model

I rather hastily added an external link showing a 3d model of the crystal structure quite like the Image already existing. I would like to apologize for adding the link without consulting the talk page. I cannot deny there's some site promotion involved, but I honestly thought it would be helpful and interesting to have it as a link on the page. The page in question is the 3d model of a Sodium Chloride lattice. If someone finds it helpful or interesting in some way, we can perhaps consider adding it again. Regards, Jlindbergh 12:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

History of sodium chloride

The history section was removed with the argument that the salt article is broader in scope, so the history fits better there. I agree, considering that the history section was about salt in society, salt in the ancient world, etc. However, I still think this article needs a section on "history of sodium chloride" from the point of view of chemistry. Some questions it should address are:

• What was the role of salt as one of the alchemical principles, together with sulphur and mercury?
• When was it discovered that salt is a compound, and that it can be made from neutralization?
• When was salt first used for chemical processes such as making hydrochloric acid and sodium hydroxide?
• When was its composition discovered?
• When was the modern name adopted?
• When was its crystal structure determined?
• What was the role of sodium chloride in the development of theories of chemical bonding?

I'll see if I can create such a section one of these days, but it needs quite a bit of research. If anyone else is interested, please don't hesitate to do it first! I won't be offended! ;-) --Itub 07:53, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

lethal dose

anyone know the ld50 for salt in people? animals will suffice if there isn't information available.Bluebonics 17:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Possible Uses

I'm not exactly sure what should be in the Possible Uses section, but I'm quite certain that it shouldn't have as many exclamation points as it has... or ellipses. Maybe someone who knows more about the subject could clean that up, because it seems like they may be saying something interesting... TylerNi7 00:14, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Unclear phrase

Salt is also known in the chemical world as a nuclear additive. I work in the chemical world and I've never heard this. What does it mean, and why is it in the section on the crystal structure? Walkerma 05:40, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Picture gallery

That gallery seems to be covering part of the article.. Shouldn't it be moved lower in the page? Drakonis 17:19, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Misconception of De-icing

The common misconception that salt actually melts ice should not be propogated here. The following sentence was found:

"In practice, however, sodium chloride can melt ice only down to about -9 °C (15 °F)."

Not only does this not make sense even if salt could melt ice, it is factually inaccurate. NaCl does not melt ice and is useless for de-icing roads that have already been covered with ice. It does however lower the freezing point of water which in turns makes the formation of ice occur at a lower temperature.

I will remove this sentence, and have no plans to replace it, becasue I do not know the intentions of the original poster. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.3.245.29 (talk) 04:21, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

In addition I've heard, that Calcium Chloride is used to de-ice roads and not Sodium Chloride, which would mean that this information is misplaced anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.238.83.178 (talk) 19:28, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

salty question for you salty bastards

i heard that yearly, approx. 25% of the world's salt is used on american roads. confirm.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.102.204.88 (talk) 14:27, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Missing data

Something missing on several chemical compound pages is what temperature is necessary to dehydrate hydated salt. Unfortunately I don't know the answer. Tabby (talk) 01:34, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging

This article talk page was automatically added with {{WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 15:54, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

problem with chembox

the following is inside the article source but is not being rendered for some reason: "Structure = [[Cubic crystal system|Face centered cubic]]" .. this is not in this article only. the link Face centered cubic should appear under "Octahedral" in the structure section.--Alnokta (talk) 17:17, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I think you meant:

| CrystalStruct = 

You can review Chembox Structure documentation for more.--OsamaK 18:46, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Thanks for fixing it.--Alnokta (talk) 18:55, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Non soluble portion of common salt

see under a microscope pag 36-41 http://coseinteressanti.altervista.org/chemistry.pdf what is it ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.30.228.175 (talk) 20:15, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The first sentence of miscellaneous uses

This sentence

"Sodium chloride is heavily used, so even relatively minor applications can consume massive quantities. "

is a terrible sentence. Someone please write this better! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.17.71.110 (talk) 12:47, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Brine

HI Can anyone tell me how many grams of salt i would need to add to 1 litre of water to make it brine, i need it to not freeze for pressure cleaning freezer floors/ freezer runs at about -35 deg cel (121.45.34.154 (talk) 07:12, 20 April 2009 (UTC))

As much as can dissolve. --Chemicalinterest (talk) 00:13, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.180.180.42 (talk) 16:10, 13 September 2012 (UTC) 

septic tank treatment

This is a common ingredient in some septic tank treatment chemicals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahoier (talk • contribs) 18:31, 11 November 2009 (UTC) bblllllaaahhhhhhh! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.133.252.10 (talk) 17:00, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Error in Chemical Equation?

Doesn't chloride come in 2 molecules? If so, wouldn't the chemical equation NaCl be incorrect? To balance this out, wouldn't the correct equation be 2NaCl? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seg162 (talk • contribs) 14:43, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for your comment. I don't see any problem in the formulas of the example "2 NaCl + 2 H2O → Cl2 + H2 + 2 NaOH". Are you referring to the equation of the compound itself? If so, this is incorrect. Chlorine is usually diatomic if it is a pure compound (Cl₂), but this element can also bond with other elements and this does not always result in two chlorine atoms. NaCl is the correct form of the equation. Sodium has a positive charge and chlorine has a negative charge, making NaCl (without the 2 coefficient) a stable compound. [[1]] Hope this helps. Wsrh 2009 (talk) 21:16, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Alternative Names?

To me it seems that the alternative names section is completely not needed. There are already other common names at the top in the infobox and many of the lower alternative names are obscure (not English) or rarely used (sodium monochloride?, chloride of sodium?). Hopefully this article is improved with the top importance rating! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.139.219.163 (talk) 05:19, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

You can edit it if you really think it needs improvement. --Chemicalinterest (talk) 00:12, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Effect of salt intake on blood pressure

"In humans, a high-salt intake has long been known to generally raise blood pressure." Apparently it's not quite so clear.

study shows that "The magnitude of the effect in Caucasians with normal blood pressure does not warrant a general recommendation to reduce sodium intake."

This study explains how salt intake affects blood pressure in some people who are "salt sensitive", but has little effect in other people.

It sounds like the issue is not so clear-cut, and the issue of salt intake is treated differently outside of North America. Could someone who has a good knowledge of this topic make that section clearer? In the meantime I will change "known" to "suspected". Tenbergen (talk) 21:27, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

I fear we are picking a couple of small studies which go against a massive body of evidence - I suggest we refer out to Salt and cardiovascular disease WKChris (talk) 20:22, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Properties

Thermal Conductivity, W/(m K) = 35.1 at 80 K, 6.5 at 289 K, 4.85 at 400 K[2]-96.237.79.6 (talk) 00:31, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I changed your reference in the article. Please try using more reliable and non-commercial links. Google books may provide such. Materialscientist (talk) 00:45, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for finding a "better" source. But I think it would be preferable to also give an explicit room-temperature value. And can you edit the infobox?-71.174.182.205 (talk) 02:18, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Irrelevant images

just though id question the relevance of two images in the article, clouds above the pacific, and the metal extinguisher :P 70.55.107.81 (talk) 05:47, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, they are kind of mentioned in the text. Materialscientist (talk) 05:58, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Molecular formula

Why does the molecular formula show ClNa instead of NaCl? Can someone edit that? Vmelkon (talk) 19:27, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Either is correct, but NaCl is more common, so I switched to that. -- Ed (Edgar181) 19:41, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Density units

The units for density in the sidebar should be checked.--76.254.46.57 (talk) 04:51, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Wait, nevermind. Disregard.--76.254.46.57 (talk) 04:52, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Hold on, they do look wrong. (g dm/L is equivalent to g dm dm^-3 which simplifies down to g dm^-2, which is wrong. Is the number OK? — Preceding unsigned comment added by GKFX (talk • contribs) 13:56, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

metal aquo complex wrong?

it says in the formula that Natrium ions are surrounded by 8 water, but isn't this actually 6 water molecules for all elements in periods 3 and 4? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.107.151.249 (talk) 15:04, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Merge Halite into this article

Halite is too similar to sodium chloride. The only difference between them is that halite is a natually occuring impure form of sodium chloride. Blackbombchu (talk) 18:58, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't get this argument at all. By that logic, we'd redirect Diamond and Graphite to Carbon. Mogism (talk) 21:42, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I agree, no merge. Sodium chloride (inorganic substance), halite (valid mineral) and rock salt (rock type) are different things, sorry. Diamond, lonsdaleite, graphite might have been redirected to carbon (element) during the first Wikipedia year, and halite and rock salt might have been redirected to sodium chloride, as well. But these were compromises. --Chris.urs-o (talk) 08:18, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

No merge. The sodium chloride, halite, and salt articles have different focus, and are large enough to stand on their own. However, some tweaking and consolidation of content, plus better cross-referencing, might strengthen all three articles. Reify-tech (talk) 14:18, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Don't merge, a merged article would only add unnecessary confusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.5.131.62 (talk) 01:38, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Don't merge. Halite is a topic on its own. Cross references are appropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.90.8.231 (talk) 01:44, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Close - no support for merger. Vsmith (talk) 00:28, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Non-SI units

I see this page is tagged for non-SI units, but I cannot find any in the article; what is it that needs attention? StephenTX (talk) 03:44, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Electrolysis end products

I understand that the "same reactants" can yield different results: ethanol + sulfuric acid = {ethylene, diethyl ether} depending on temperature. But the entries for sodium hypochlorite sodium chlorate and sodium perchlorate all pretty much say that they're created the same way. Can someone knowledgeable on this topic put in the differentiating conditions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.223.91 (talk) 02:13, 29 September 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.223.91 (talk)

More information to add to the article

Is 23.31 wt% the saturated concentration of sodium chloride at -21.12°C? What's the temperature below which sodium chloride precipitates as the hydrated salt? Does the solubility curve of sodium chloride bend at the dividing temperature between one form precipitating and the other form precipitating? Blackbombchu (talk) 19:13, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

what Na is sodium chloride

I'm trying to make a periodic table of elements and a want to break down type of salt. I can't find any Na= sodium.... on this sight so put that on. Thank you.Marcjackie12345 (talk) 19:59, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Na leads to a disambiguation page, which clearly lists Sodium as one meaning. Please explain more clearly what you're trying to do. Reify-tech (talk) 20:07, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

under Biological Functions

Which is it? Is it more dietary salt, or less dietary salt, that attenuates (i.e., reduces) nitric oxide production. While an assumption may be in force here, it might be better just to spell it out to avoid any ambiguity. JimScott (talk) 20:11, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Salt vs sodium chloride

This article is using salt and sodium chloride interchangeably, there's no obvious consistency. Is there a standard on which to use? -- 139.216.128.154 (talk) 06:26, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

"Iodine" link in image description

Image description for the picture of salt flats in the 'Biological functions' section has a link that refers to iodine in the wiki commons(https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Iodine), NOT to the wikipedia page for "Iodine" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/iodine) as I believe it should be. It was a featured image in 2007, and I can't figure out how to make an edit (I believe it's locked? I can't edit the description from the Sodium chloride page). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charlielovesyou (talk • contribs) 04:58, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Medical benefits section needed

Sodium chloride has a range of medical benefits and different uses. For example, it can be used in a nebulizer as an inhalant (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_inhalants). It can also be used in a spray formulation for relieving nasal congestion and hay fever symptoms. I'm not an expert so I cannot create this section myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.172.219.68 (talk) 16:40, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Sodium Chloride Solubility in water

The page lists the solubility in water @ 359 g/L

This is incorrect. 359 g/L implies 359 g of salt into a final volume of 1L The literature lists the sol as 357 g in 1000 parts water. This implies adding 357 g to 1000 grams of water. The final volume of this solution will be closer to 1200 mL108.171.130.188 (talk) 12:53, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Undiscussed cut and paste move and merge

On June 7th user Vorpzn made a cut and paste move and merge from Salt to Sodium chloride. This sort of move is not allowed since it disrupts editing history, and in any event this is a major change that should have had consensus before being enacted. My understanding is that the Salt article is meant to discuss edible salt, which is not pure sodium chloride, while Sodium chloride is a more chemically focused article. Regardless of whether or not there should be two articles, this was not the correct way to merge them together. --Mikaka (talk) 03:51, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

It also substantially changed the scope of the Vital Article for Salt. See WT:Vital articles#Salt for discussion. Jclemens (talk) 05:55, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Chlorine valence in the mentioned unusual stoichiometries of salt

In the mentioned unexpected stable stoichiometries, what is the valence of chlorine, other than 1?--5.2.200.163 (talk) 14:53, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Colloquial cluster fluoridism

Sodium chloride /ˌsoʊdiəm ˈklɔːraɪd/, also known as salt (though sea salt also contains other chemical salts), is an ionic compound with the chemical formula NaCl, representing a 1:1 ratio of sodium and chloride ions. With molar masses of 22.99 and 35.45 g/mol respectively, 100 g of NaCl contains 39.34 g Na and 60.66 g Cl. Sodium chloride is the salt most responsible for the salinity of seawater and of the extracellular fluid of many multicellular organisms.

The italic was my recent addition, but then I noticed that both instances of salt link to the salt chemistry page. I don't wish to resolve this myself.

I do think that it's bad pedagogy to let the "also known as" stand naked as if 'salt' was not a deeply problematic synonym.

Perhaps the solution is to say "also known as salt when packaged as refined table salt" or something like that. — MaxEnt 02:06, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

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I think it's fine. Salt is salt. "Salt" is NaCl, "the salt", "salt", all NaCl. Every other ionic compound of whichever nature, is a salt. Or maybe "a salt of calcium". Salt is also a salt. If somebody says "salt" it means NaCl for eating or secondarily road-gritting purposes. That's all. Outside of a chemist, and even he'd say "pass the salt" when he's at home eating his dinner, out of the lab. Throwing it over his shoulder to spite the devil. Any context at all, if someone says "salt" rather than "a salt", they mean NaCl. Admittedly there aren't that many NaCl-related contexts, but it's still fine in all of them.

There's no ambiguity or confusion unless you look for it. Chemistry students are fine getting the principle that salt is a salt. Isn't salt the stuff that salts are named after? Because it's such an exemplary one? I dunno, it surely goes back to alchemy.

84.70.129.162 (talk) 22:32, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

What does wt% mean?

I looked it up, "mass fraction" apparently, and a big Wikipedia article arguing with itself about it. I'm still no clearer.

The term "25 wt%" is used in the article and I've no idea what the hell that means. I'm not an unintelligent man. I think either switch to some measurement people will get (percentage by volume or weight?), or stick in a quick explanation of what wt% means, maybe in a foot note. Just not a 2-page long footnote with diagrams, I don't think anyone cares that much, it's just if you're gonna specify a number, let people know what it means. We didn't do "mass fraction" anywhere I ever studied, I shouldn't need a maths degree to read about putting salt on roads.

84.70.129.162 (talk) 22:18, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

How to Grow Sodium Chloride Crystals at Home

How to Grow Sodium Chloride Crystals at Home --- • Sbmeirow • Talk • 17:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)