Talk:Serbdom

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Not moved. With an article at Serbian nationalism, this would appear to be a merge and not a move. If after cleanup, this needs to be reopened, feel free. Vegaswikian (talk) 05:16, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Serbdom → Serbian nationalism – Serbdom is not a very well-known term and this is definitely the first time I have heard of it. Using google for "Serbdom" [1] returns about 36.000 hits whereas "Serbian nationalism" returns 92.000 hits. [2]. Support change as per WP:COMMONNAME. Furthermore, the source material for the term "Serbdom" in the lede [3] doesn't even mention Serbs, much less Serbdom when one actually searches the book. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 10:58, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

• Support for my reasons stated above. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 11:11, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose, I don´t think the content of the article and nationalism are the same. FkpCascais (talk) 18:06, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

How do you figure that? Heck, if you type in Serbian nationalism in the search, it redirects here. Everything in the article also points to the two being the same, it just says that this term was used prior to the widespread nationalist movements of the 19th Century and all, even though that is now unsourced. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 18:22, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

This term has more to do with Serbian culture, tradition and acceptance and influence in the region in different historical periods. The article probably needs much expansion and work, but definitely not in nationalist way. It means Srpstvo in Serbian, and has very little to do with nationalism, but rather with simple national belonging of Serbian culture, way less radical than nationalism, which in Serbian case is a much specific and "harder" stuff. For instance, when you talk about American way of life (an equivalent exemple for USA) you don´t redirect it to American nationalism, do you? FkpCascais (talk) 23:00, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

As this is the only place I have seen the term, you can understand my thinking, from the article, that it is basically Serbian nationalism with another name. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 11:18, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Also, the Serbian nationalism had its own article just about recently (26 March 2011) when it was redirected without any RfM or consensus by one user (the reason is not valid either, since contents are not at all equal). FkpCascais (talk) 23:06, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Seems an awful thing to do. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 11:18, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

• Comment: FkpCascais, will you please be so kind to provide some links to the definitions or explanations of Serbdom (or Srpstvo)?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 00:21, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
  • Well, to start with, you can check the meaning of the word, here at wiktionary for exemple. It says:

1.a sense of belonging to the Serb people; Serbianness, Serbianhood, Serbhood, Serbianity.

2.the collective characteristics of Serbs

So by this I conclude that this article has been deverted from the original meaning, and as I said, it needs work and expansion to the right direction (certainly NOT nationalism). Now, seing the meaning of it, how does this have anything to do with nationalism? So, belonging to Serbs and having Serbian characteristics makes you be a Serbian nationalist? FkpCascais (talk) 01:58, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

The article talks a lot about nationalism, though if the term is basically Serbian pride, then I get that. As you said, this article needs work. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom!11:18, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you FkpCascais for the provided links. I agree with all of you that articles needs to be worked on. I propose to add {{Inuse}} or some other appropriate template to the top of the article. Flinders Petrie thank you for noticing the problem with this article.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 12:59, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

With time I think we can "clean" this article of nationalim (User Zoupan I think already made an effort), and focus on what it should really be its content, which is basically something similar to expanded definitions of collective characteristics of Serbs. Just as note, Flinders, I think that the term by itself it is even softer than pride, it is in my understanding just a simple characteristics that were adopted by Serbs which are, exemples, acceptence of Serbian culture, belonging to Serbian Orthodox Church, celebrating important Serbian hollidays, eating certain type of food, wearing certain type of dreses, etc. I mean, if we correct the article and expand the right content, it can be somehow even offensive to consider that having Serbian tradition is nationalism... The only thing that I possibly see coming is that we may end up having an article that could be a candidate for merge with Serbian culture, although Serbian Culture is a much wider article, and this one should deal more focused on individual characteristics of the inhabitants. FkpCascais (talk) 04:41, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

I think we should allow interested users to resolve the issue with this article within reasonable period of time, say mid September (taking in consideration that it is season of summer holidays). In the meantime this article should be marked with appropriate tag, like I wrote. My friendly advice to FkpCascais: Please focus on supporting your thoughts and understandings of the term Serbdom with referenced sources other than wikipedia projects. Otherwise, I am afraid that after mid September, we will have more support than oppose comments. Good luck. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 07:22, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

• Support. The current title does not appear to be widely used and Serbian nationalism or Serb nationalism accurately reflects the current content of the Serbdom article. If the current situation with both this article and another called Serbian nationalism in existence continues, I support a merger of the two per WP:CFORK. —  AjaxSmack  01:38, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.