Talk:Secret Invasion (miniseries)/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
Emilia Clarke
she confirms her casting in this interview. Not sure if there’s anything that can be used from it for the article but linking here just in case. Rusted AutoParts 21:06, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
- I didn't think there was much there when I first read it, but others may disagree. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:17, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
- I didn't find anything worth including, unless we want it as 100% confirmation of her appearance in the series, but I don't feel wee need that. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:51, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
- I don't think we need to include this, per se, as there's nothing knew from what we already know. Trailblazer101 (talk) 00:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
- I didn't find anything worth including, unless we want it as 100% confirmation of her appearance in the series, but I don't feel wee need that. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:51, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
SLJ confirms filming start?
Ok, so /Film has an article regarding the start of The Marvels filming, and they include an Instagram post from Samuel L. Jackson that he's back as Nick Fury. Could it possibly be for this series? We knew it was supposed to start in early-to-mid August (which this Instagram post would indicate), but his shirt if very Captain Marvel-centric, so I'm not sure. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:18, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- If /Film says he's back for The Marvels, we can add it there, but we can't add anything here based on that article. —El Millo (talk) 18:22, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- I've added it already, but it needs some c/e especially in the Filming section. —El Millo (talk) 19:05, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- They seem to be assuming that this is for The Marvels because of his shirt and the timing of the post in relation to Larson's interview. - adamstom97 (talk) 19:38, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- Right, that's what I was trying to figure out if it was indeed for The Marvels, because it could in theory point to Secret Invasion since that should be starting up possibly any day now. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:41, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- A quick Google shows other sources assuming that this is for SI and some pointing out that it could be either. I haven't seen anything definitive yet so I think we should wait for more confirmation. - adamstom97 (talk) 19:44, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- To clarify, I think we should wait on confirming him for SI and The Marvels. At the moment we are saying in a few places that he will be in The Marvels but I don't think the source supports that. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:07, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- I agree, these sites seem to be jumping to conclusions on what Jackson is filming right now, and it is best we remove the information of him being in The Marvels for now until we know definitively that it is confirmed. These sites just seem to be connecting his post with Larson's for The Marvels, but we can't be sure of it. Trailblazer101 (talk) 00:09, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- It's hard to say really at this point so probably best to wait and see. FWIW, despite it not being reliable, IMDB has Secret Invasion listed as filming now, so I'm looking for some cites to back that up. Rusted AutoParts 00:19, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Just for the sake of discussion, ScreenRant and Game Spot both feel it's for Secret Invasion, while the /Film and Collider articles said The Marvels. So I agree we should probably remove him from The Marvels at this time. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:02, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- It's hard to say really at this point so probably best to wait and see. FWIW, despite it not being reliable, IMDB has Secret Invasion listed as filming now, so I'm looking for some cites to back that up. Rusted AutoParts 00:19, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- I agree, these sites seem to be jumping to conclusions on what Jackson is filming right now, and it is best we remove the information of him being in The Marvels for now until we know definitively that it is confirmed. These sites just seem to be connecting his post with Larson's for The Marvels, but we can't be sure of it. Trailblazer101 (talk) 00:09, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Right, that's what I was trying to figure out if it was indeed for The Marvels, because it could in theory point to Secret Invasion since that should be starting up possibly any day now. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:41, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- They seem to be assuming that this is for The Marvels because of his shirt and the timing of the post in relation to Larson's interview. - adamstom97 (talk) 19:38, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- I've added it already, but it needs some c/e especially in the Filming section. —El Millo (talk) 19:05, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
We could see both sides and start weighing the quality of the sources, to see which of the two has more weight. —El Millo (talk) 18:37, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- I think we'll need another confirmation for either project to add in, either someone else definitely in The Marvels noting SLJ is there, or another Secret Invasion actor saying they're starting to film. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:15, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Jackson tags "#TheMarvels" in his latest post here and on Insta, btw. IronManCap (talk) 20:39, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Huh. – ChannelSpider (talk) 22:04, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- That is certainly a better indication that his first post was for The Marvels, but I feel like it is WP:SYNTH to say they are both about the same production. - adamstom97 (talk) 06:53, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- Yeah, if SI was say a month out from filming, 100% this is for The Marvels. But the fact both are filming at Pinewood UK and have/will be starting filming at this point, things got murky really quick. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:29, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- What should we make of SLJ tagging "#TheMarvels" in his tweet then, other than him being part of the film cast? IronManCap (talk) 18:11, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- Verification should be explicit, not ambiguous. If any interpreting is needed on our part then a better source should be found.—TriiipleThreat (talk) 18:25, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- Fyi, CinemaBlend takes this as explicit confirmation, although waiting for more solid sourcing is perfectly plausible. IronManCap (talk) 18:29, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- Remember that even for reliable sources we have to look at where they are getting their information from. CinemaBlend is not reporting with new information, they are looking at the same two posts that we are and are WP:SYNTHesizing an answer from them. We can't use that as confirmation. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:40, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- If it helps any, on the Shang-Chi red carpet Feige noted Captain Marvel 2 was in production in London, whilst Secret Invasion was getting ready to start production. This may point it more towards The Marvels. (The video might link halfway through, just rewind to the beginning). Rusted AutoParts 16:06, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Rusted AutoParts: Good find! While things sometimes start filming before Feige makes comments on them, I do think this is a good indication the photo of SLJ was for The Marvels. I don't know if FabTV can be considered a reliable source, but if so, we could add here that filming is starting "soon". - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:12, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
- Ha, I was just going here to post about this. Nice catch, Rusted! It does seem more clear, as Favre said, that Jackson was talking about The Marvels, and I'd be up to using FabTV to source that SI is filming "soon" if we can use it. Trailblazer101 (talk) 17:48, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Rusted AutoParts: Good find! While things sometimes start filming before Feige makes comments on them, I do think this is a good indication the photo of SLJ was for The Marvels. I don't know if FabTV can be considered a reliable source, but if so, we could add here that filming is starting "soon". - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:12, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
- If it helps any, on the Shang-Chi red carpet Feige noted Captain Marvel 2 was in production in London, whilst Secret Invasion was getting ready to start production. This may point it more towards The Marvels. (The video might link halfway through, just rewind to the beginning). Rusted AutoParts 16:06, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
- Remember that even for reliable sources we have to look at where they are getting their information from. CinemaBlend is not reporting with new information, they are looking at the same two posts that we are and are WP:SYNTHesizing an answer from them. We can't use that as confirmation. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:40, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- Fyi, CinemaBlend takes this as explicit confirmation, although waiting for more solid sourcing is perfectly plausible. IronManCap (talk) 18:29, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- Verification should be explicit, not ambiguous. If any interpreting is needed on our part then a better source should be found.—TriiipleThreat (talk) 18:25, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- What should we make of SLJ tagging "#TheMarvels" in his tweet then, other than him being part of the film cast? IronManCap (talk) 18:11, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- Yeah, if SI was say a month out from filming, 100% this is for The Marvels. But the fact both are filming at Pinewood UK and have/will be starting filming at this point, things got murky really quick. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:29, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- That is certainly a better indication that his first post was for The Marvels, but I feel like it is WP:SYNTH to say they are both about the same production. - adamstom97 (talk) 06:53, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- Huh. – ChannelSpider (talk) 22:04, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Jackson tags "#TheMarvels" in his latest post here and on Insta, btw. IronManCap (talk) 20:39, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
@Favre1fan93: Filming looks to be taking place in September throughout Scotland. Rusted AutoParts 21:55, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- Something to keep an eye out for, but this source alone doesn't look to be full confirmation, or a reliable source. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:58, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- It is not a reliable source as it is a tabloid newspaper and pretty much like Daily Mirror. — YoungForever(talk) 22:09, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- Alright, makes sense. When there's atleast a confirmation of
"Secret Invasion starts filming today!"
, then it can useful here. — ChannelSpider (talk) 13:53, 31 August 2021 (UTC)- I am sure a reliable source will confirm that filming began soon. — YoungForever(talk) 00:02, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
- Alright, makes sense. When there's atleast a confirmation of
- It is not a reliable source as it is a tabloid newspaper and pretty much like Daily Mirror. — YoungForever(talk) 22:09, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
According to ComicBook.com, Secret Invasion will begin filming "in the coming weeks", which does corroborate the interview from FabTV. Though this article discusses some information that we know is true from agency listings, it appears ComicBook is just reported on what other sites have been saying. Just a heads up. Trailblazer101 (talk) 02:35, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
Chloe Bennet casting
Why is Chloe Bennet mentioned in the casting section if she is not confirmed to be cast?
Speculation is not something noteworthy. 105.112.183.114 (talk) 21:58, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
- It's denying a rumor that arose some time ago. It's trivial, so I'll remove it. —El Millo (talk) 23:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
- I think this should be mentioned, given that Bennet herself made a pretty clear/firm denial of it, not simply something like "oh you never know/what's that series?/it could happen" etc that we usually get from actors. Given how the character of Daisy Johnson is quite prominent within the storyline from the comics, there is at least some expectation that should could appear in this series, since at this time we don't have any solid idea of what Marvel Studios is doing with it. If there wants to be some other way to integrate the info, sure, but I think as we have it now (saying her denial and explaining why she's denying) is useful. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:39, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
- It seems to me like a bit of WP:RECENTISM, that was just relevant during the brief time the rumor appeared. Compare that to the Maguire and Garfield situation, which still has relevance and will still have relevance after that film is released, whether they appear in it or not. —El Millo (talk) 16:49, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
- We know very little of this series beyond the reported "official" castings and the brief images from the Disney+ Day special, so I think its too soon to judge if there was ever any real validity to Daisy Johnson actually appearing or not. As we get more info, if it doesn't look to be any sort of likely possibility, then I'd be in agreement to adjust/remove, but I think we can't make that call right now. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:27, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
- It seems to me like a bit of WP:RECENTISM, that was just relevant during the brief time the rumor appeared. Compare that to the Maguire and Garfield situation, which still has relevance and will still have relevance after that film is released, whether they appear in it or not. —El Millo (talk) 16:49, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
- I think this should be mentioned, given that Bennet herself made a pretty clear/firm denial of it, not simply something like "oh you never know/what's that series?/it could happen" etc that we usually get from actors. Given how the character of Daisy Johnson is quite prominent within the storyline from the comics, there is at least some expectation that should could appear in this series, since at this time we don't have any solid idea of what Marvel Studios is doing with it. If there wants to be some other way to integrate the info, sure, but I think as we have it now (saying her denial and explaining why she's denying) is useful. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:39, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
Noel Fisher
I'm guessing the recent attempt to add Noel Fisher was based off this Twitter thread? IMDB of course is not a reliable source, and regardless at least when I looked up GOTG 3 all assistant mentions are gone. Was wondering where the Anthony Mackie in Secret Invasion rumour came from. Rusted AutoParts 07:25, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
- the very respected 4chan Cornerstonepicker (talk) 00:52, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
"Late 2022" Release Date
Currently, the article's only source on the release date of this series, ComicBook.com [1], gets the hypothetical release date from Marvel Japan's website which previously listed this series in its 2022 slot. However, since then, Marvel Japan has removed the series from its 2022 slot, which is reported by several publications, including ComicBook.com ([2], [3], [4]) Therefore, I don't think we have a clear consensus on the release date of this series, especially if ComicBook.com, the website used as the source, is now saying it is removed, among others. Hummerrocket (talk) 16:50, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
- The removal doesn't necessarily mean it is no longer in 2022. It could also mean that they weren't meant to indicate as such yet. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:00, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
Don Cheadle
Until we have concrete evidence that he (as well as our new MCU President) will have an actual role in the series and not just be in a photograph, I don't think we should mentioning them in the article. References or Easter eggs like this are extremely common in the MCU — Maria Rambeau's photo was in WandaVision, Clint's was in Black Widow, Tony was everywhere in Far From Home, etc. InfiniteNexus (talk) 05:47, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
- I've rehidden the info in the cast sections. It may be notable to include if they do appear in some capacity other than an Easter egg, but I think we can include it (hidden) right now until we know the extent of their appearances. Trailblazer101 (talk) 14:34, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
No longer a 2022 release?
In Moon Knight's production brief in Feige's bio (pg 20), it says Upcoming original series for 2022 include “Moon Knight,” Ms. Marvel,” “She-Hulk” and the second season of “What If…?
. Is this enough to at least revert info in places to "TBD"? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:44, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
- It doesn't really support the idea that the show won't be coming in 2022, since there are other things that we know are coming this year which are not included in that list, but I personally am not super confident that it will come out this year due to the fact that they are still filming and also have so much other stuff they need to fit in. I was also always suspicious of the current source we are using to support a 2022 release since it comes from Disney's Japanese website and we know that the foreign websites aren't always the most reliable of sources. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:19, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
- I’ll echo Adam on this, given it doesn’t dispel the release timeframe, but there is nothing concretely confirming it other than the Japanese website, which isn’t that reliable as a source to use. I personally think it is unlikely to release this year, but we may just have to wait and see on reverting it. Trailblazer101 (talk) 23:26, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
- Here is another good example of why not to trust the foreign sites: Marvel Studios Thailand apparently just stated that What If...? isn't coming back this year even though Marvel just released an official production brief saying that it will. So even though these tend to be verified Marvel Studios sites it does not necessarily mean that they are releasing all the correct information. I don't think we should be treating them the same as official U.S. sites for Marvel and Disney. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:53, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
- So in that case, do we remove the Japanese source and simply not put a date? We previously had this Collider source before the Japanese one, but I think that was also presuming the series would be out this year, not a definite. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:37, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
- I would say just leave no date for now. These social accounts are conflicting, but seem fairly unreliable now. The Collider source seems to just be an expectation and nothing concrete. Trailblazer101 (talk) 18:42, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah I would err on the side of no date until we get something more official or something from one of the more reliable trades/websites. - adamstom97 (talk) 18:45, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
- I shall boldly change. Not sure if any articles are using (2022), but at least here and the Phase Four articles I'll make the changes. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:00, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
- Just wanted to point out that one of the cinematographers' (Remi Adefarasin) agent listing has Secret Invasion's release timeframe stating 2022. I don't know when this was added as there's no archives of it prior to the series' announcement. It is not the most reliable thing to use for it, but felt like something to mention and keep an eye on. Trailblazer101 (talk) 17:41, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
- I would say just leave no date for now. These social accounts are conflicting, but seem fairly unreliable now. The Collider source seems to just be an expectation and nothing concrete. Trailblazer101 (talk) 18:42, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
- So in that case, do we remove the Japanese source and simply not put a date? We previously had this Collider source before the Japanese one, but I think that was also presuming the series would be out this year, not a definite. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:37, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
- Here is another good example of why not to trust the foreign sites: Marvel Studios Thailand apparently just stated that What If...? isn't coming back this year even though Marvel just released an official production brief saying that it will. So even though these tend to be verified Marvel Studios sites it does not necessarily mean that they are releasing all the correct information. I don't think we should be treating them the same as official U.S. sites for Marvel and Disney. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:53, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
Rege-Jean Page
I'm seeing it circulate that he is part of the cast. So far, I haven't found anything reliable to back it. The Wrap included him in their tweet but the article itself does not name him. Just noting in the event he's repeatedly added in. Rusted AutoParts 02:14, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
Ross
After the events of Wakanda Forever, I doubt he's still CIA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.44.164.211 (talk) 06:19, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
Secret Invasion writers
https://directories.wga.org/member/brantienglestein https://directories.wga.org/member/roxanneparedes https://directories.wga.org/member/jovanrobinson/ https://directories.wga.org/member/haleemamirza/ https://directories.wga.org/member/michaelabhim/ https://directories.wga.org/member/betodantas/ https://directories.wga.org/member/jonathanmhirschbein/ https://directories.wga.org/member/aaronrabin/ Just found these today, Kyle Bradstreet doesn't have a listing on WGA as of current, but I imagine all of these are his writer's room. I would have added them into the article, but Wikimedia's backend went down while i was editing so I'll just leave just here in the talk section. -TrixieCat123 (User talk:TrixieCat123) -TrixieCat123 (User talk:TrixieCat123) 01:37, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- I have added the writers to the article en masse. From a quick Google search, it appears Bradstreet is with WGA East, though that has no credits for him listed either. We'll get other sources for the writers closer to release, including a full WGA list which we can swap these refs for. Trailblazer101 (talk) 07:31, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Should we mention that Englestein previously wrote for Agent Carter? -TrixieCat123 (User talk:TrixieCat123) 17:32, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- I've noted that now as it can be useful to some readers. Trailblazer101 (talk) 18:05, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Should we mention that Englestein previously wrote for Agent Carter? -TrixieCat123 (User talk:TrixieCat123) 17:32, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- I'm the user who discovered these writers on WGA and added them to the Marvel Cinematic Universe wiki. Bradstreet does have a WGA page, it just doesn't show up in search results: https://directories.wga.org/member/kylebradstreet Aldwiki1 (talk) 00:09, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
- Good to know on the page. The listing doesn't provide anything we didn't already know. Trailblazer101 (talk) 00:16, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
- Please note that the "Series Employment History" listings on WGA website don't always translate to "writing" credit. Many of them are producers, EPs, staff writers and story editors. Only some of them will turn out to be actual writers. So, unless they're specifically listed in the "Television Series Writing Credits" section, adding them as writers is misleading. — Starforce13 00:48, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
- Instead of presenting them as writers, would it be enough compromise to say that they are simply working on the series? It would mirror the phrasing in Agatha: Coven of Chaos#Writing. Aldwiki1 (talk) 20:12, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
- Please note that the "Series Employment History" listings on WGA website don't always translate to "writing" credit. Many of them are producers, EPs, staff writers and story editors. Only some of them will turn out to be actual writers. So, unless they're specifically listed in the "Television Series Writing Credits" section, adding them as writers is misleading. — Starforce13 00:48, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
- Good to know on the page. The listing doesn't provide anything we didn't already know. Trailblazer101 (talk) 00:16, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
Don Cheadle as War Machine
While I appreciate the recent good faith revert, it appears that some sources that I believe are approved for WikIpedia MCU information actually do confirm that Don Cheadle is appearing as his character War Machine. Those sources include:
- https://www.cbr.com/don-cheadle-secret-invasion-leads-armor-wars/
- https://thedirect.com/article/secret-invasion-marvel-don-cheadle
- https://movieweb.com/don-cheadle-secret-invasion-sets-up-armor-wars/
- https://www.slashfilm.com/1164209/war-machines-appearance-in-secret-invasion-will-kick-off-the-mcus-armor-wars/
- https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/donald-cheadle-longest-tenured-avenger-marvel-star-secret-invasion-armor-wars-201532138.html
- https://screenrant.com/mcu-disney-plus-movie-secret-invasion-sets-confirmed/
- https://collider.com/secret-invasion-cast-don-cheadle-war-machine/
- https://collider.com/armor-wars-don-cheadle-character-comments/
- https://comicbookmovie.com/tv/marvel/secret-invasion/secret-invasion-star-don-cheadle-confirms-series-directly-leads-into-planned-armor-wars-movie-a198835
- https://parade.com/tv/marvel-secret-invasion
- https://bleedingcool.com/tv/secret-invasion-kicks-off-what-happens-in-armor-wars-don-cheadle/
- https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/secret-invasion-cross-over-armor-wars-details-revealed/
I could go on with scores of other sources I found. But I think what I've shared is sufficient. And even if it isn't, I have never once seen an MCU project where a character appears independently of his role as a superhero. That's not a thing. That would be like saying, "Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans reprise their roles as Tony Stark and Steve Rogers, respectively, but not as their superhero personas, Iron Man and Captain America." Having said that, I disagree with the reasoning for the revert in question, but will not be bold and potentially cause an edit war over this matter. --Jgstokes (talk) 05:57, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- There is absolutely no confirmation as of yet that the Rhodes in the War Machine armor makes any appearances in the series. We only know that Rhodes himself will be appearing (based on leaked set photos and the brief appearance in the trailer and Con footage). That very much is
a thing
. We can't claim what isn't reliably sourced, otherwise that's WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. The vast majority of sources provide indicated how Rhodes' story in this leads into the Armor Wars film (1, 3, 4, 6), some are unreliable completely (2 and 9) and others are just saying "Don Cheadle as War Machine appears" etc. when, again, there has been no indication from known and leaked footage that this is the case. Until we know more, we can't state such. You gave RDJ as an example, see The Incredible Hulk (film) for him only appearing as Tony Stark, not Iron Man as well. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:10, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
Brian Tucker additional head writer?
Seeing as Tucker is credited as an EP, credited with Bradstreet with an "and" credit on the first episode, and there were rumors during production that the series went through a major overhaul and McDonald said a new writer came on for the reshoots, might we think Marvel Studios will also consider him a "head writer" (or maybe the sole one)? Obviously it's too early to make definitive changes, just wanted to start the discussion. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:47, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
- I think it is entirely in the realm of possibility that Tucker is in some fashion a head writer, though I'd prefer to wait for any concrete statements on the roles. With Tucker, and Thomas Bezucha going uncredited as a director, it seems there was a fair amount of changes made to the content and team. Trailblazer101 (talk) 22:29, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Opening Credits are public domain?
If the reports that the opening credits are indeed AI generated, does that mean that the credits (sans music) would be public domain? The United States Copyright office themselves have stated that AI art is not protected by copyright. MonkeyBBGB (talk) 16:17, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- Maybe, but we need to be 100% certain that it meets all of the criteria established by the U.S. Copyright Office. Even io9 is unsure of the extent to which AI was used, so we cannot jump the gun until we know the full details. But note that even if it is ineligible for copyright in the U.S., this may be a case of {{PD-US}}, i.e. it may not be public domain in other countries. InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:46, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- I agree. Not going to jump the gun on it. But wanted to couch the idea now in case this is an instance of public domain. Would be very interesting for a 2023 Marvel series to have it. And be a decent test case for other AI generated works in the future barring changes to copyright. MonkeyBBGB (talk) 18:48, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- Per this report, the credits are not "AI generated". The vendor's artists and developers made it like with other credit sequences, they just used some sort of "AI" tool as part of their development process for this particular look. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:25, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- Good to know! Thanks MonkeyBBGB (talk) 22:52, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- Per this report, the credits are not "AI generated". The vendor's artists and developers made it like with other credit sequences, they just used some sort of "AI" tool as part of their development process for this particular look. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:25, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- I agree. Not going to jump the gun on it. But wanted to couch the idea now in case this is an instance of public domain. Would be very interesting for a 2023 Marvel series to have it. And be a decent test case for other AI generated works in the future barring changes to copyright. MonkeyBBGB (talk) 18:48, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
Sylvaine Dufaux and Thomas Bezucha
With the revelation that Bezucha left before filming began, it's likely Dufaux was his cinematographer, and she left production as well. All other CVs for Dufaux do not list Secret Invasion. -TrixieCat123 (User talk:TrixieCat123) -TrixieCat123 (User talk:TrixieCat123) 21:38, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- I was thinking the same thing, as all material released by Marvel since (and covered by other sources) do not list her. I was boldly going to remove her. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:19, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
Superhero Genre
What is the exact definition of superhero? Nick Fury technically is not a superhero. He is an experienced ex-spy and ex-Director of SHIELD and probably the director of SABER. He showed his great skill in hand-to-hand combat though we do not see him fighting much.
JEDIMASTER2008 (talk) 03:25, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- It's one of the genres listed in Disney+ for the series. -- ZooBlazertalk 04:14, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
Episode drafts
You can find drafts for the aired episodes below. Feel free to help improve them to get them ready to move into the mainspace.
Characters who are Skrulls
Trying to bury the lede a bit with this heading for anyone who isn't caught up yet, but with the confirmation in episode 4 that Rhodey is a Skrull, and through Feige's Marvel.com's interview knowing we will likely find out how long he's been one, how should we handle his past appearances? I'm thinking specifically for any actor tables, and cast lists in projects we'll come to learn he was a Skrull. Originally I thought (at least for the table) making a new row under the "Introduced in X" heading, but now I'm thinking perhaps the best course in all spots would be to make an efn note for tables and cast section saying something like "In the Disney+ television series Secret Invasion (2023), it was revealed that Rhodes was a Skrull/the Skrull Raava during the events of this film/series.[citation]" - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:55, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
- I agree that an efn is probably the best option. I'd say adding rows to tables might be better only if multiple other main characters were revealed to be Skrulls. -- ZooBlazertalk 18:00, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
- If it turns out that Rhodey has been a Skrull for a while, I don't think that changes the fact that Cheadle was portraying Rhodey in those older films. I think a note is the most we would want to do, sort of similar to the retroactive 'Spider-Man was in Iron Man 2' thing. It's also probably worth adding notes for Fury and Hill in Far From Home. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:32, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note where they are retroactively revealed to be a skrull? JEDIMASTER2008 (talk) 08:12, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- The series has yet to confirm this, but Feige has said it will be shown or revealed. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:39, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- With this source, it can be used support Rhodey as a Skrull in Infinity War, Endgame, and FWS. I'll start trying to make some edits to note this. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:38, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- I strongly disagree with changing the status with Rhodey. The show did not make clear how long he’s been a skrull besides a vague “long time” line and most people are jumping to conclusions that the hospital gown must mean he was swapped during Civil War since he wore one too (has anyone thought he got swapped during a post-Endgame checkup? Dude was injured pretty badly after Thanos attacked under the Compound). As it was not directly confirmed, any changes would be violating WP:SYNTH, since a source is being used to reach a conclusion none of the officials of the show, nor Cheadle or Feige have made clear, and it is far more likely that we’ll learn about how long he’s been a Skrull in Armor Wars (or given the fact that SI has caused considerable backlash amongst fans they may never address it). There is ample evidence in previous shows that strongly hint towards a post-Endgame swap (namely the leg braces (was still wearing them during the Stark funeral but seemed not to during FATWS, bleeding normally), though we can only state that by the time of Secret Invasion he was swapped. Anything else is/would be leaning towards WP:SYNTH. MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 15:59, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- I agree that we shouldn't be doing this yet. Most secondary sources don't even seem to think the show confirmed it, most say the episode "hinted" when the swap took place. —El Millo (talk) 17:42, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, I think we should wait for official word before making the changes. "A long time" can mean a lot and as of now it's just everyone theorizing. -- ZooBlazertalk 17:46, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- The director even said himself that he doesn’t have the answer and said he deferred to Feige or the fans. TBH, given how Marvel has always left loose threads open and never comes back to them it may never get confirmed in Armor Wars, which if that’s the case (and honestly is right now), we can just default to saying he was swapped between his FATWS appearance and Secret Invasion appearance as that’s the most concrete evidence we can go off without getting into SYNTH territory (and if you ask me, I think is the accurate case). Additionally it’s not clear if SI is 2025 or 2026 (and I doubt the timeline book will include it), but 2-3 years since Endgame in 2023 can be a long time for many. MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 19:50, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- I don't think we can make a concrete determination from the series itself. A source noting an implication is not a solid confirmation, as the hospital gown and "long time" quotes are not direct enough to support this conclusion definitively. As previously stated, we should wait for an official confirmation. Trailblazer101 (talk) 23:17, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Exactly. Like I said given the MCU’s trend of leaving plot threads open without really solving them doesn’t bode well. I indicated on Rhodes’ character that its not made clear but per SYNTH concerns it defaults to sometime between FATWS and Secret Invasion (stating “sometime between 2024 and 2026”). MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 01:18, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- We can't even say that. We can only say the character was replaced sometime before the events Secret Invasion, and we can say that it's referred to as "a long time" in the series, but that isn't an indication for any specific amount of time since "a long time" can be a year or a decade. —El Millo (talk) 03:12, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- We cannot state a relative timeline of when Rhodes was replaced without a concrete source and evidence. Anything less than that is WP:Original research and SYNTH., as well. :et's just stick to what we know as fact. There is WP:NORUSH in getting all of the information that we don't have. Trailblazer101 (talk) 03:14, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- We can't even say that. We can only say the character was replaced sometime before the events Secret Invasion, and we can say that it's referred to as "a long time" in the series, but that isn't an indication for any specific amount of time since "a long time" can be a year or a decade. —El Millo (talk) 03:12, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- Exactly. Like I said given the MCU’s trend of leaving plot threads open without really solving them doesn’t bode well. I indicated on Rhodes’ character that its not made clear but per SYNTH concerns it defaults to sometime between FATWS and Secret Invasion (stating “sometime between 2024 and 2026”). MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 01:18, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- I don't think we can make a concrete determination from the series itself. A source noting an implication is not a solid confirmation, as the hospital gown and "long time" quotes are not direct enough to support this conclusion definitively. As previously stated, we should wait for an official confirmation. Trailblazer101 (talk) 23:17, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- The director even said himself that he doesn’t have the answer and said he deferred to Feige or the fans. TBH, given how Marvel has always left loose threads open and never comes back to them it may never get confirmed in Armor Wars, which if that’s the case (and honestly is right now), we can just default to saying he was swapped between his FATWS appearance and Secret Invasion appearance as that’s the most concrete evidence we can go off without getting into SYNTH territory (and if you ask me, I think is the accurate case). Additionally it’s not clear if SI is 2025 or 2026 (and I doubt the timeline book will include it), but 2-3 years since Endgame in 2023 can be a long time for many. MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 19:50, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, I think we should wait for official word before making the changes. "A long time" can mean a lot and as of now it's just everyone theorizing. -- ZooBlazertalk 17:46, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- I agree that we shouldn't be doing this yet. Most secondary sources don't even seem to think the show confirmed it, most say the episode "hinted" when the swap took place. —El Millo (talk) 17:42, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- I strongly disagree with changing the status with Rhodey. The show did not make clear how long he’s been a skrull besides a vague “long time” line and most people are jumping to conclusions that the hospital gown must mean he was swapped during Civil War since he wore one too (has anyone thought he got swapped during a post-Endgame checkup? Dude was injured pretty badly after Thanos attacked under the Compound). As it was not directly confirmed, any changes would be violating WP:SYNTH, since a source is being used to reach a conclusion none of the officials of the show, nor Cheadle or Feige have made clear, and it is far more likely that we’ll learn about how long he’s been a Skrull in Armor Wars (or given the fact that SI has caused considerable backlash amongst fans they may never address it). There is ample evidence in previous shows that strongly hint towards a post-Endgame swap (namely the leg braces (was still wearing them during the Stark funeral but seemed not to during FATWS, bleeding normally), though we can only state that by the time of Secret Invasion he was swapped. Anything else is/would be leaning towards WP:SYNTH. MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 15:59, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- With this source, it can be used support Rhodey as a Skrull in Infinity War, Endgame, and FWS. I'll start trying to make some edits to note this. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:38, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- The series has yet to confirm this, but Feige has said it will be shown or revealed. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:39, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note where they are retroactively revealed to be a skrull? JEDIMASTER2008 (talk) 08:12, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- If it turns out that Rhodey has been a Skrull for a while, I don't think that changes the fact that Cheadle was portraying Rhodey in those older films. I think a note is the most we would want to do, sort of similar to the retroactive 'Spider-Man was in Iron Man 2' thing. It's also probably worth adding notes for Fury and Hill in Far From Home. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:32, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
For the record, the director did have an interview with ComicBook.com earlier today (which currently displays an error message with no prior archive) but was picked up by TheDirect. In that interview, Selim says “A lot of people have asked about, ‘Definitively, when did Rhodey...?’ I think his legs not working in the end of episode six and him being in the hospital gown points to ['Captain America: Civil War']."
While this is not a confirmation, it does lend to that indication, and could be something worth using in this article. I'm not sure how we should approach it in the other articles, although a note would work as discussed, though I think we still need more concrete confirmation. Trailblazer101 (talk) 03:26, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah I just saw that, but I think we should first wait until the original article is available again before we add anything. —El Millo (talk) 03:37, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- That is still WP:SYNTH as “points to” is still vague and anything less then a confirmation is OR/SYNTH and should not be added (at the very least perhaps using the “theorized” but stressing it is not officially confirmed). He even admitted he didn’t have the answer in a separate interview with Insider, which indicates inconsistency. We should wait until Armor Wars to change anything as the director has said that’s where it’ll likely be confirmed. MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 04:51, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- We can still add news sites interpretations of what the timing means, along with Selim's comments, and just make the wording less definitive. That's something I'm about to add in. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:13, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- I think there is enough to support the suggestion that it is since Civil War but not enough to update other articles yet. Unless Feige or Cheadle come out with a definitive statement my guess is we will need to wait until Armor Wars for confirmation. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:29, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- We can still add news sites interpretations of what the timing means, along with Selim's comments, and just make the wording less definitive. That's something I'm about to add in. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:13, 28 July 2023 (UTC)