Talk:Sangley

Intramuros, Ateneo Municipal and Universidad de Santo Tomás

I have removed, among many other false and unsourced statements, the following: "Ateneo de Municipal and Universidad de Santo Tomás were exclusively for the children of Spanish colonists and their descendants" The Spanish public system of education was open to all the natives, regardless of race, gender or financial resources, and both Ateneo Municipal and Universidad de Santo Tomás had primary schools besides high education facilities, and those were free and open to everybody.

Also, Intramuros was open to everybody and there are numerous references that prove it was,

For example John Bowring, who was Governor General of British Hong Kong and a well-seasoned traveler who had written several books about the different cultures in Asia, was favorably impressed by the lack of racial discrimination and described the situation as "admirable" on a visit to Intramuros, part of his trip to the Philippines during the 1870s. "The lines separating entire classes and races, appeared to me less marked than in the Oriental colonies. I have seen on the same table, Spaniards, Mestizos (Chinos cristianos) and Indios, priests and military. There is no doubt that having one Religion forms great bonding. And more so to the eyes of one that has been observing the repulsion and differences due to race in many parts of Asia. And from one (like myself) who knows that race is the great divider of society, the admirable contrast and exception to racial discrimination so markedly presented by the people of the Philippines is indeed admirable." L. Hunt, Chester, "Sociology in the Philippine setting: A modular approach", p. 118, Phoenix Pub. House, 1954

--RafaelMinuesa (talk) 09:27, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Conflict in material

These two paragraphs from the "Politics" section of the article seem in conflict about when the Philippines got representation in the Cortes and recognition as a province. Maybe there was a typo on the Cadiz Constitution? Will check if I have time. Better dates and content, and appropriate cites are needed for both the following paragraphs:Parkwells (talk) 16:23, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Following the promulgation of the Cádiz Constitution of 1812, the Philippines was granted the status of a Spanish Province, with representation in the Spanish Cortes. These subjects were granted Spanish citizenship, thus acquiring legal equality in the Philippines with Spanish-born Spaniards. Toward the end of Spanish rule in the 19th century, the mestizos de sangley identified as Filipinos, showing their identification with these islands.

Also identifying as the "True Sons of Spain", the mestizos de sangley tended to side with the white Spanish colonists during the numerous indio revolts against Spanish rule. In the late 19th century, José Rizal, a fifth-generation mestizo de sangley, arose as an intellectual from the relatively wealthy, middle-class, Spanish-educated Filipinos known as Ilustrados. He was among those who called for reforms in the administration of the colony, integration as a province of Spain, and political representation for the Philippines in the Spanish Cortes.

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Etymology

The passage "extract from the Boxer Codex Dasmarinas record to the King of Spain, it also contains the probable earliest romanisation of Japan as “Iapon”." is completely extraneous and should be removed.

There is still some question about the dialect origin of sangley. If we go strictly by the phonetics, it is much closer to the Cantonese pronunciation of the Chinese terms 生利 and 生理, both of which can mean "doing business." However, since the vast majority of Chinese sojourning and trading in the Philippines in pre-Spanish and Spanish times spoke Hokkien dialects, it is more likely that sangley derives, with some phonetic divergence, from Hokkien 生理, seng-li (the common Hokkien term for "doing business") than from the Cantonese 生利 sang-lai (meaning, generally, "generating income or profit").

Possible fork?

Following the recent edit warring at this page, Chinese mestizo was created from a preexisting redirect. I'm not familiar with the subject matter and figure that people following this page would have a better idea judging whether it's appropriate or WP:CFORK. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 00:50, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

The fork is now an unsubmitted draft at Draft:Chinese Moro mestizo _signed, Rosguill ^talk 20:09, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Etymology of Sangley

Sangley (Intsik, Sangley Mestizo, Mestisong Sangley, Mestizo de Sangley or Chinese mestizo; plural: Sangleys or Sangleyes) is an archaic term used in the Philippines beginning in the Spanish Colonial Period to describe and classify a person of pure Chinese ancestry. The Spanish used the term mestizo de sangley to refer to a person of mixed Chinese and indigenous/Indio (Filipino) ancestry (the latter were referred to as Indio). The Chinese immigrants and their descendants played important roles in the Philippines, contributing to trade, culture and politics. Today, Filipinos widely use the term Intsik.

Sangley comes directly from Hokkien seng-li (Chinese: 生理; Peh-ōe-jī: seng-lí), meaning "business." The majority of Chinese sojourners, traders, and settlers in the Philippines during the Spanish colonial period came from southern Fujian and spoke Hokkien, leaving their mark on Filipino culture (especially the cuisine). Although mestizo de sangley literally means "mixed- race (person) of business," it implies a "mixed-race (person) of Chinese and indigenous/Indio (Filipino) descent" because many early Chinese immigrants were traders and intermixed with the local population. Outside the Philippines, the Spanish word mestizo (without the qualifying de sangley) is normally used to refer to refer to persons of mixed European and non- European ancestry, but the lower number of European mestizos in the Philippines made the term mestizo come to mean mestizo de sangley. For example, Benito Legarda used this definition when talking to the United States Philippine Commission (1899–1900), citing Wenceslao Retana's Diccionario de filipinismos (1921). The term chino mestizo was also used interchangeably with mestizo de sangley'.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sangley

Chinese (Pekingese) shang1lü3 merchant guest

https://www.educalingo.com/en/dic-es/sangley/

La palabra sangley procede del tagalo sanglay, la cual a su vez procede del chino šang- lúi.

sangley: 🔆 Alternative form of Sangley [(Philippines, historical) person of pure Chinese ancestry (especially during the Spanish colonial period in the Philippines)]. 🔆 (Philippines, historical) person of pure Chinese ancestry (especially during the Spanish colonial period in the Philippines).

22:59, 18 August 2023 (UTC)