Talk:Robert Adams (spiritual teacher)

Ramana Maharshi

Regarding the Mark Whitwell reference citing p.84 of his book "Yoga of the Heart," the quote in no way verifies Adams being at Ramana Ashram. The exact quote is:

"When the Western sage Robert Adams said to me, “There is a secret in the Universe! There are no problems!” I immediately felt and knew what he meant. It was an experience of tacit certitude. Robert was speaking to me from his own personal experience. He had lived with Ramana Maharshi for four years. Robert had no interest in being a special teacher or creating a social dynamic of special and ordinary. In his clarity he simply knew that his life was no different from anybody else's. As an equal, a peer, he was communicating his experiences to his friends. Therefore it was directly received in ordinary and tangible ways without the imposition of social allusion or philosophies of seeking."

Mark Whitwell was born May 17, 1949 and was not in India as a child, therefore is unable to verify Robert Adams claim of being there 1946-1950, thus it is an improper citation.

Also, Ramana Ashram has said they don't believe Robert Adams was ever there and in the April-June 2020 issue said on p.7 of The Mountain Path:

"There is the curious case of a Robert Adams, an American guru who asserted

that he was at Sri Ramanasramam between 1947-8 and 1952 (the dates vary in his conversations) and that he moved closely with Bhagavan. Until such time as there appears objective, verifiable evidence to substantiate this claim, we cannot

but come to the conclusion that his account is unreliable."

http://www.sriramana.org/ramanafiles/mountainpath/2020%20II%20April.pdf Thus Ramana Ashram believes Robert Adams claim of being there is "unreliable."

In "The Mountain Path," July-Sept. 2020 issue longtime ashram member Kitty Osborne made the following statement:

"As for Robert Adams, it seems to me that there are so many inconsistencies and downright impossibilities in his stories, such a total lack of verifiable fact or any credible witness, that I can only conclude that he never met Bhagavan at all."

She also says in the same article:

"Bhagavan never left the ashram by the front gate or even crossed the road from the ashram (where our house is still) after 1928-29 when he stopped doing giripradakṣiṇā, except for two recorded occasions. Once when he went to look at a lake (Samudram) that had unexpectedly filled with water and secondly when he went to see a well in Ramana Nagar that never went dry. Every move he made was noted and recorded, and everyone who was associated with him, would have been noted."

and also:

"He [Robert Adams] also claimed to have stayed in my family home without my father apparently knowing about it! This is according to one of his statements recorded on a website devoted to his teachings. He certainly could not have stayed in our house while we were there without us knowing, when we were not there the house was locked up and unused."

This contradicts many many references Robert Adams made to both staying at the Osborne house for years such as this one:

"I had been living in Ramana ashram for about a year and a half.

This was the end of 1948. I stayed with Arthur Osborne, in his house. In those days when foreigners came they were put up with Arthur Osborne

most of the time without him knowing."

p.2839 Collected Works

In this case it is a matter of whom do we believe? Someone who owned the house and is universally acknowledged to have been there, or someone without single person ever verifying seeing him there or even in India. One possible clue may also be this quote from Robert's foremost disciple Ed Muzika quoting another follower:

"He [Robert Adams] lies incessantly, telling one person one thing and another something else, then denies to both that he said anything."

Ed's comment:

"From that recipient's own viewpoint of frustration and disappointment, what she said was true; but she saw only the man, not the source, the Self-embodied Guru."

It is my opinion that Ramana Ashram should be respected and this article should remove all suggestions that Robert Adams was there until such time as someone comes forward to verify that Robert Adams was ever actually at Ramana Ashram.

Controversies section

None of the claims in this section are well-substantiated, and the sources used were all marked "better source needed." This section should be removed unless more credible sources are found.

On the controversy section, the addition of "there have been examples of those who had undoubtedly met Ramana Maharshi corroborating Adams' Self-realization." seems out of place since the idea of one person corroborating another's self-realization is more for lineage holders and has nothing to do with the question of whether Adams actually visited Ramana Ashram. Perhaps the comment could be put in another section or its own section as there are indeed many Facebook and Youtube gurus who endorse Robert Adams.

Advaita Vedanta

What makes Robert Adams "Advaita Vedanta"? This looks like a rather loose interpretation of what "Advaita Vedanta" is. Simply "Advaita," or "modern Advaita," might be a better term. Ramana Maharshi himself wasn't "Advaita Vedanta" either, but rather tantric Shaivism. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 10:48, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Story Teller?

Regarding the addition of Adams living in a cave thus explaining no one there having seen him, on page 458 of Robert Adams' Collected Works he describes attending the main hall talks everyday for 8 months with this passage:

"I recall a Westerner, I'm trying to think of his name, Henry Wells, from Scotland. He apparently had read a lot of books about Ramana, and this was his first visit. He came into the hall, and I was watching this. Ran over to Ramana and prostrated himself on his stomach, and started going crazy. His feet were shaking, and he was chanting. The devo- tees wanted to pick him up, and Ramana said, "Let him stay." When he came out of it he told Ramana, "At last I have found you. You are my father, my mother, my son, my daugh- ter, my friend." And Ramana just smiled at him. And I said to myself, I was only eighteen years old, I said to myself, "Someone who is this enthusiastic, let's see what happens, if it lasts." The days went by and he kept prostrating himself every day for about a month. Then he finally stopped and he sat down like everybody else. And after about two months he started looking around the room at everybody, and he started complaining, that this wasn't right, that wasn't right. After about four months of being there he donated forty- thousand dollars to the ashram, and I'm just watching all these things going on. After about six months of being there, he started to find fault with the management. At that time Ramanas brother was managing the ashram. He started to whisper to the other disciples, of course the devotees had nothing to do with this, it was the disciples and the seekers. He started spreading rumors. He hardly ever talked to me. I guess I was too young. He was about forty-five years old. When about the seventh month he came over to me one day and he asked me outside the ashram, "Do you think Ramana is really enlightened?" So I just smiled at him, I didn't answer and walked away. He started getting devotees to fight against each other and rebel against the rules of the ashram. On about the eighth month he saw me again and he tells me, "Do you think it is right for Ramana to stand naked like this? Let's buy him some clothes and dress him up, so when Westerners come they won’t be frightened." So I told him what Ramana said: "Remember the reason for why you came." And this went on. A couple of days later I didn't see him in the hall. Second day passed and I didn't see him. The third day passed and I didn't see him. And the fourth day I inquired, "What happened to him?" And the house guest he was living with said, "Oh, Henry packed his suitcase and went back to Scotland," and nobody ever heard from him again." pp.458

On page 2319 Robert Adams states:

"I recall when I was with Ramana Maharshi, I used to stand at the door of the meet- ing at the old hall, when people used to come in to hear him, to see him. I was interested in the people that came in to see him. And because I was a Westerner, the Westerners would stop and talk to me. They were very funny. They change expectations, and ask me, is Ramana going to speak today? What subject is he going to speak on?"

Regarding Ramana speaking English, yes Ramana could speak english and write it also, but according to Kitty Osborne he never spoke it without a translator. If you want a link to that let me know.

Regarding the article from Ed Muzika, it was not from the well known Matthew Brown script but was from the Jan/Feb 1998 Yoga Journal article widely distributed at the time. https://books.google.bg/books?id=JOoDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA83&dq=yoga%20journal%20the%20mysterious%20sage%20of%20sedona&pg=PA85#v=onepage&q=yoga%20journal%20the%20mysterious%20sage%20of%20sedona&f=false

On the David Godman video, I don't think that should be referenced and certainly not referenced as a supporting source since David Godman acknowledged it as false information, took it down, and promised to correct the false information in it to anyone that asks. See Michael James article:

' [Robert Adams said...] ‘I had been living in Ramana ashram for about a year and a half. This was the end of 1948. I stayed with Arthur Osborne, in his house. In those days when foreigners came they were put up with Arthur Osborne most of the time without him knowing. And on one particular evening about 4 o clock Sri Ramana walked into the cottage and he brought me a mango.’

He made a similar claim a week later, on 9th August 1992, when he said, as recorded on page 2868: ‘In 1948, I was at Arthur Osbornes home near Ramana ashram. And Ramana used to walk in there every once in a while. He came in one day, sat down and he started to talk about not reacting to things.’

To set the record straight, despite what he claimed, Robert Adams never stayed in the Osborne’s house or compound, and Bhagavan never visited there. As Katya Douglas (formerly Kitty Osborne) wrote to me today, ‘Our house in Tiruvannamalai was...and is...tiny and NO ONE could stay in it without us knowing. What a ridiculous idea. Bhagavan NEVER came to our house, that is pure fantasy, a polite way of saying it is a lie!’

I do not know why Robert made up such stories, but such patently false claims call into question all his claims about having met Bhagavan and having lived there so long in those days.

I came to know about this claim that Robert stayed in the Osborne’s house..."' Michael James unquote https://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2019/11/ego-seems-to-exist-only-when-we-look.html Welcome650 (talk) 10:14, 11 August 2020 (UTC)Welcome650 (talk) 09:56, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

The Robert Adams page reads as if all his claims are true when as we can see in the Story Teller section, they are controversial at best. I like Robert Adams but I think this page falls short of the Wikipedia normal standard. Pgc512 (talk) 14:23, 4 July 2023 (UTC)