Talk:Rangers F.C./Archive 4

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Foundation Date

The club was founded in February 1872 and NOT in 1873 as stated in the article. Each time I change this it is changed back to 1873. Why is this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.153.21.150 (talk) 00:43, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

“ Despite this promising start, as every fan knows the official founding of the club did not take place until the following year.

The date of 1873 is recognised because that was the year when the club had their first annual meeting and officers were elected. Rangers were becoming businesslike. The players had formal training sessions and a fixture list was drawn up.

”

Says the official site, the club started in 1872 and were officially founded in 1873, so one could argue that either is correct. WATP ^(talk) • _(contribs) 00:46, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

The official site may say that but the Wee Blue Book up until 1922 states specifically that Rangers was founded in 1872. This was amended, wrongly, in 1923 due to the delay in the official historian publishing the jubilee history. Regardless, the first time Rangers kicked a ball around was in 1872, and supporters generally take that to be the foundation date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.153.21.150 (talk) 15:43, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

supporter here *waves* i've always took it as 1873, so i must not be a general supporter. wasn't there even a badge that had 1873? can't quite remember this, but i thought there was one on a strip. could be wrong, but i'm not wrong about all the t-shirts Rangers sell from their shop, that has the gers 1873 on them. i'm not wrong about them having their centenary in 1973, special kits and that, so even Rangers go with 1873! 194.221.133.226 (talk) 11:42, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Read what I wrote! The Wee Blue Book stated our formation date as 1872 up until John Allan's bastardising of Rangers history in 1923. Robert McElroy's Complete Record and David Mason's book on Rangers Managers both state 1872 - that's the greatest living authority on Rangers history and the club's official historian respectively. Considering Rangers is run by an Ayr United supporting rugby fan and a former male model with no link to the club beyond his payslip, I wouldn't be surprised if they stated the foundation date as 23 November 1988. 11:14, 17 February 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.153.21.150 (talk)

I have wallpaper all around my room and about 100 books which says 1873 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.33.80 (talk) 18:20, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Lovely. I have newspaper articles from 1872 that have short reports, scores and even team line ups for Rangers matches. Reason being, the foundation date was 1872. February, to be exact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.153.21.150 (talk) 20:40, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Internationals

I unbolded the players who have international caps in the current squad. I felt this was distracting and not all that relevant to the squad as a whole. I'm planning on putting together an "International representatives" section. - Dudesleeper · Talk 09:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Featured Article

I am proud to announce that the Italian article has just been voted as "Featured Article". Since a big part of it was translated from here, I wish to thank all those have contributed to the English Rangers' FC article. Blackcat it 14:19, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Brilliant, well done to all involved. Hopefully the English one will be next. :) WATP  ^(talk) • _(contribs) 14:23, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

YouTube Video

I had added a couple of sentences to the section titled Old Firm and Sectarianism about the video (of Rangers fans in Pamplona) with a link to the YouTube page. It seems someone has deleted it. I don't think that there is a good reason for this, however embarrasing it may be for some people to read, so I am putting it back. Please stop trying to cover it up. Thesean43 17:21, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Good luck with that. - Dudesleeper · Talk 17:35, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Is there really a reason to YouTube cover anytime some fans of any club makes themselves guilty of bad behaviour? I don't think it's about covering something up, since it's well established what happened. However, there are, to my knowledge, no corresponding YouTube coverage of bad behaviour of fans on any other team's Wiki page anywhere on Wikipedia, which makes me feel it's a bit biased towards Rangers. (I am not the one who has edited stuff out, just trying to come up with a reason). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thaum1el (talk • contribs) 00:57, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Real Name

Rangers' Real Name in Glasgow Rangers - I added the 'Glasgow' on the Page but it was deleted! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clyde1998 (talk • contribs)

You're right! We've been calling them the wrong name all these years! - Dudesleeper · Talk 16:19, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

It not the wrong name, people do it with other teams all the time. E.G Inverness Caladonian Thistle = Inverness , so i would say you were wrong dudesleeper

Rrright. - Dudesleeper · Talk 00:40, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

The Glasgow club is officially called Rangers Football Club but when entering any European competition, they must include the name of the town or city where they are from. That is why the name Glasgow Rangers is used in Europe. Similarly, St. Johnstone F.C. when they were in the top league and played in Europe had to be known as Perth St. Johnstone and Hibernian as Edinburgh Hibernian (there is a club called Malta Hibernian who sometimes appear in European matches).

The reference earlier to Inverness Caledonian Thistle F.C. is simpler since that is the name of the club, being an amalgamation of two senior Highland League clubs (Inverness Caledonian and Inverness Thistle) which gave them sufficient resources to join the Scottish League. The name Rangers is sometimes confused with that of Queens Park Rangers of London, currently in the English Championship league, who have their name shortened to Rangers in localised conversation.Bobinscotland (talk) 23:34, 26 November 2007 (UTC) BobinScotlandBobinscotland (talk) 19:19, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

If this article did get GA

It'd have Celtic's colours in the GA icon.-h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 14:40, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

It'll have to be featured then, eh? WATP ^(talk) • _(contribs) 14:44, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

blackstrip on sponser?

had anyone noticed rangers had blackstrip on sponrer in the CL game against Lyon?

anyone knows why?--Innuendo1899 13:14, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Advertising alcohol is banned in France. Chris Cunningham 14:04, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Previously, when playing Auxerre away in the Champions' League, the shirt sponsor for the night was Center Parcs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.127.182.63 (talk) 19:20, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Record defeats

I'm not sure how the use of such statistics by the club's rival (for mockery, or whatever) is a legitimate reason to remove it, when it is factual. As far as I can tell, there is no "standard" for what records are listed for football clubs. By way of comparison, the Celtic page lists no fewer than 4 different record defeats, (Record defeat;Record home defeat;Record post war home defeat and Record European defeat), which do not appear to be "standard across articles" , either. Isarig 19:58, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not concerned about the Celtic article. I'm concerned about anonymous Celtic fans adding in drive-by snipes pertaining to historic Old Firm victories. To be honest this is minor enough that I don't care, and it's true that it's no less useful than most other statistics, but a quick revert was justified at least in intent. Chris Cunningham 20:05, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

"Record defeat in a domestic cup final" isn't really that important a detail in the grand scheme of things. WATP ^(talk) • _(contribs) 20:20, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

My understanding of it is not as a listing of Rangers' record defeat in a domestic cup final (which would be a somewhat tenuous statistic), but that that scoreline is the record for any domestic cup final, anywhere. That, in itself, might be notable enough to warrant a mention. See Hampden in the Sun. Rockpocket 21:14, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Notable player

I suggest we only mark players as notable if they have either made a 100 appearances or over or are in the hall of fame. This way we avoid ambiguty. Also we should link this section to the page List of Rangers F.C. players and change that page name to Notable Rangers players. Yatesy1988 (talk) 13:44, 10 April 2008 (UTC) 16:48, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Agree with that, but I would suggest that the section on the main article is unneeded, just a link to the list would do. A lot of List of XXXXXX F.C. players articles are featured lists, a bit of work and I'm sure we can make this one as well. WATP ^(talk) • _(contribs) 17:21, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Glasgow Rangers

Was just wondering whether they should be called 'Glasgow Rangers' rather than just Rangers FC. I'm sure their badge used to consist of the letters G-R-F-C on top of each other. Are they still called Glasgow Rangers and, if not, when was this officially changed? While on this subject, didn't Celtic used to be 'Glasgow Celtic'? Would appreciate it if someone knew. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Villafancd (talk • contribs) 12:45, 3 November 2007

They've never been Glasgow Rangers. Calling them Glasgow Rangers is a bit of a shibboleth. Chris Cunningham 17:52, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The Glasgow club is officially called Rangers Football Club but when entering any European competition, they must include the name of the town or city where they are from. That is why the name Glasgow Rangers is used in Europe. Similarly, St. Johnstone F.C. when they were in the top league and played in Europe had to be known as Perth St. Johnstone and Hibernian as Edinburgh Hibernian (there is a club called Malta Hibernian who sometimes appear in European matches).

The reference earlier to Inverness Caledonian Thistle F.C. is simpler since that is the name of the club, being an amalgamation of two senior Highland League clubs (Inverness Caledonian and Inverness Thistle) which gave them sufficient resources to join the Scottish League. The name Rangers is sometimes confused with that of Queens Park Rangers of London, currently in the English Championship league, who have their name shortened to Rangers in localised conversation.Bobinscotland (talk) 23:34, 26 November 2007 (UTC) BobinScotland

Here in Italy Rangers are often called Glasgow Rangers or I Rangers di Glasgow (The Rangers of Glasgow), though everyone knows that Rangers are actually... the Rangers F.C.; there's no way to confuse them with Queens Park Rangers F.C. for example, because the English club are way less known than the Scots at international level (indeed, no one would say "Everton Liverpool"). But we have also attached the label "Glasgow" to the Celtic too: I don't think it's because of distinguish them from other clubs with similar name (i.e. Hibernian), but because of bad habits learnt long time ago. Other examples? We say "PSV Eindhoven" or "Feyenoord Rotterdam". No one of us would say "Juventus Turin" or "Inter Milan" or "Lazio Rome" (trivia: Spaniards call the Real Madrid "El Madrid", of course, we call them "il Real", forgetting that almost every club in Spain is "Real", like the Betis, the Zaragoza, the Espanyol, and such...). Blackcat it (talk) 23:52, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

History

Is the history part not a little sparse, to say the least? Surely a description of things that happened between 1894 and 2006 needs adding? I know there is a separate article on the history, but such a long gap without anything is excessive?

--Bcnviajero 15:08, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

There was basically no pre-2006 history until I added the Formation and early years section. I'm still working on (getting round to) adding the rest. WATP ^(talk) • _(contribs) 18:43, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Tennents' Sixes

I suggest we remove the Tennents' Sixes tournament wins from the Rangers_F.C.#Other_honours section becuas it was not a competition eleven players could compet in y8c (talk) 16:18, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

el:Ρέιντζερς Γλασκόβης

Add the greek article el:Ρέιντζερς Γλασκόβης. A Greek friend —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.203.198.11 (talk) 17:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Rangers.png

Image:Rangers.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 04:03, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

A. Smith

Does anyone know who the A. Smith is who played in the 1967 UEFA Cup Winners' Cup Final? ArtVandelay13 (talk) 16:21, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

See Alex Smith (footballer born 1940) y8c (talk) 09:47, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Brahim Hemdani Flag

I changed Hemdani's flag to the Algerian one earlier (from the French one) because he was called up to the Algerian national team and he was at the camp. However the flag was changed back to the French one. He's been called up again, this time for a friendly:

http://www.dzfoot.com/news-3116.php

Is it fair to change it to the Algerian flag now? TonyStarks (talk) 02:21, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Once he has played for Algeria, yes. WATP ^(talk) • _(contribs) 18:34, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Restoring older history

Right. The article is really pretty nice now. What it needs is for someone to delve into History of Rangers F.C. and provide a good WP:SUMMARY of the pre-Le Guen years and re-add it to this article. We can't just punt the whole thing; we should provide a reasonable summary here. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 19:42, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Introduction

Whilst it is true that Rangers FC has been strongly supported by the Protestant side of Glasgow and beyond, the reason for the club starting had nothing to do with this and came about later(Generally claimed to be when Shipyard workers came from Belfast in the early 1900's). In addition talking of the club identifying and favouring the Unionist community of Scotland is a bit of a misnomer, the vast majority of the 'Unionist' baggage associated with Rangers FC(or more to the point the fans) has come from the support of Rangers by the Unionist communities of Northern Ireland and this has only been in the recent years of renewed success since the Souness Revolution. Neil8r (talk) 21:01, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• I wouldnt say that entirely true, if you look at ym family tehre not from ireland but there unionist through adn through adn that goes way back to when rangers came about. Athlough i do agree that rangers was not created to be protestant it pretty hard because there hardly anyone alive now from back then that we coudl accurately say one way or another. It would be very hard to edit with 100% accuracy in any way shape or form, i think ti best to leave it the way that people have know it to be for years and year now unles you can provide some sort of defintate proof liek newspaper etc?--andrewcrawford 22:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrewcrawford (talk • contribs)

"Recentism"

Might as well discuss it here since vague edit summaries do nothing. "Count the paragraphs" in which section (since the tag was above the first section the first time but now is above the second)? And how does the number of paragraphs mean it's slanted towards recent news? - Dudesleeper / Talk 10:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

UEFA Cup Final

there should definately be a section on this years UEFA cup final as we never know when we will be in another european cup final and we need to put a comment in to let everyone know that there will be more than 100,000 teddy bears in manchester on wednesday the 14th may to cheer on the mighty Glasgow Rangers win lose or draw, because we are the greatest fans in the world! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.35.103.196 (talk) 12:08, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

mention the shenanigans that happened Earfetish1 (talk) 03:19, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, since you asked so nicely... - Dudesleeper / Talk 14:51, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Come to think of it, I think I will protest this decision. Other clubs that has been involved in such shenanigans doesn't have such mentioned in the history on the club's main page. Why should Rangers be an exception? Thaum1el (talk) 22:49, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

It was Recently discovered that those shenanigans where in fact caused by Liverpool and Chelsea casuals wearing Rangers colours in a bid to fight with them. 86.0.195.174 (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2008 (UTC) 22:35 30 Jul 2008

Chairmen

List of the men who have been chairman of the board of directors at Rangers Football Club. Any help gettin this list complete/perfect would be great, it is needed for the Rangers F.C. seasons Yatesy1988 (talk) 14:36, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

President

• 1890-1891 James Watson
• 1891-1896 Dugald Mackenzie
• 1896-1898 John Robertson Gow
• 1898-1899 James Henderson

Chairmen

• 1899-1912 James Henderson
• 1912-1923 John Ure Primrose
• 1923 William Craig (June 1923-November 1923)
• 1923-1932 Joseph Buchanan
• 1932-1934  ?
• 1934-1947 James Bowie
• 1947-19?? John F. Wilson
• 19??-1973 John Lawrenc
• 1973-19?? Matt Taylor
• 19??-1986 John Paton
• 1986-1989 David Holmes
• 1989-2002 David Murray
• 2002-2004 John McClelland
• 2004- David Murray

Organisation

This article seriously needs to be properly organised and put in some kind of order. Right now it starts with "Formation and Early Years" and then jumps straight to "Under Paul Le Guen." WHAT??? Did nothing else happen in the meantime??? If you have the time to add a bit of detail about events between the formation of the club and, of course, those glorious Paul Le Guen years, please do. Angstriddenyouth (talk) 21:10, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Example #342 of someone spending more time commenting about an issue than it would have taken them to amend the issue. - Dudesleeper / Talk 22:43, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about that. Figuring out our history plan is a pretty big deal. Since I said I'd do it I've tidied up the articles on pretty much every second- and third-division ground in Scotland instead of doing it, so it's not like it's trivial. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:43, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Fixtures

Does someone who has time want to add the fixtures: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/fixtures/default.stm Only Falkirk is listed, but the rest have been declared. ← κεηηε∂γ ^(talk) 15:49, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Im on it, be done by tonight Yatesy1988 (talk) 17:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Cool, thanks :) ← κεηηε∂γ ^(talk) 17:38, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Andrius Velička

Can you pkease give mea link that proves he has offically signed, rangers tv own site says he has agred terms but the clubs ainted agreed a feee so the deal could collapse —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrewcrawford (talk • contribs) 18:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

You were probably correct when you wrote that, but heres a link anyway: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/7444234.stm ← κεηηε∂γ ^(talk) 07:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• Yeah i have sen he has offically signed now, just i dnt think it a good idea to add a player until the deal is done :)--Andrewcrawford (talk) 09:24, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
• I added a ref to his name, before any over-zealous, jobsworth admins remove him ;-) ← κεηηε∂γ ^(talk) 15:42, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Kenny Miller

On sky sports.com it has kenny miller listed as number 14, dont know if that is his number or if it is still to be announced by the club? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.35.103.196 (talk) 14:55, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

He doesn't have a number on the official website, and he's the only one. Might be that they just haven't updated, but still. So Rangers haven't, from what I've seen, given him a number yet. Best to wait a while.Thaum1el (talk) 01:39, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Walter Smith

In the part for the managers achievements it says walter has won 8 league titles but on his own page it says he has only won 7?

I believe I've now corrected it. Souness was listed as having won the title three times as Rangers manager, yet his article states four, so I took one off Smith's total and added it to Souness'. - Dudesleeper / Talk 18:17, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that's correct either. Souness won in 1987, 1989 and 1990. Smith won seven in a row from 1991 to 1997. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 09:14, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Kyle Lafferty

Since the page has been changed Kyle Lafferty has been removed from the current squad list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.35.103.196 (talk) 13:29, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Manchester

get the shit off the page about the troubles in Manchester, there was 300,000 Rangers fans there and less than 100 arrests, get it changed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.35.103.196 (talk • contribs) 13:17, 6 August 2008

It is part of rangers history and as a encyclopedia must be included. Sectarian remarks are not wanted on wikipedia please reframe from doing so.--Andrewcrawford (talk) 12:21, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Squad Positions

This is idea for improvement ot the article, does not matter if it rejected or something similar is done just give people more information.

Currently it is listed as Postion DF, MF, FW. My suggestion is to do DFL, DFR, DFC etc ie saying what side they play.--Andrewcrawford (talk) 20:59, 15 August 2008 (UTC) or in the instance of more than one do DFLCR

Edu Dispute

I suggest the dispute about whether to add edu is discussed here rather than start a revert war or edit war.

Both sides are correct in adding and removing edu as both are valid points. But a consensus to add hm or not should be decided here. He could be hidden using the <!-- --> and removed if and when it confirmed he has a work permit.--Andrewcrawford (talk) 17:42, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I've been for adding him because I believe if Koki Mizuno can be granted a work permit, then Edu should have no problem. Foxtrot1985 (talk) 18:04, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Whether, in your estimation, there is "no problem" with his work permit is totally and completely irrelevant. The simple fact is that the purchase of his registration has been completed, pending a work order. As we saw with Brad Guzan's situation in January of this year, these things are never open-and-shut cases. As we did with Guzan this last month (and as we should have done with him in January as well) we should hold off on moving him to and from club articles, roster templates, etc. and refrain from changing his infobox until after the deal is 100% finalized, which means waiting until the work permit is granted. It's no different than a medical being done before signings are finalized, as if things come up, like with AJ's move to Fulham from Everton, the transfer fee can be renegotiated, incentives added, or the whole deal could be off as well. Please, we're not a newspaper with a deadline, we should wait for things to be official before they are updated. -- Grant.Alpaugh 18:09, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

The contract he has signed is pending a work permit. So the contract is not valid until he has a work permit and is therefore not a Rangers player. As Grant says, we have seen Work Permits denied in the past, like Brad Guzan at the start of the year; or Jardel in the 90's when he was even paraded at Ibrox. Crackout (talk) 18:27, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

As of August 22nd, he has a work permit, and so this dispute should be over. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thaum1el (talk • contribs) 07:30, 25 August 2008 (UTC)