Talk:Pétion-Ville

Comment

Petion-ville is the best town in haiti and beautiful, with 607,000 people. This town was created by alexandre petion since 1758.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.4.176.110 (talk) 21:25, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Coords

They look wrong. They arrive at a mountain with no houses. Several km to the east looks a lot more like an area with mansions. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:14, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps this was updated Anna Frodesiak, but using Google Earth I see cars, houses, although not in 3D imagery. Savvyjack23 (talk) 04:48, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Savvyjack23. That's odd. It could have been because of the satmap service I was using at the time. I'm in China where Google maps doesn't work. I just checked with this and it shows AGAPE Church. You probably get the same. Check to the southwest. Market or shanty? Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:01, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Pétionville. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100114182637/http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100113/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cb_haiti_earthquake to http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100113/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cb_haiti_earthquake

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 23:09, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Pétionville. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151106110552/http://www.ihsi.ht:80/pdf/projection/Estimat_PopTotal_18ans_Menag2015.pdf to http://www.ihsi.ht/pdf/projection/Estimat_PopTotal_18ans_Menag2015.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100123024949/http://www.golf.com:80/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1955178,00.html? to http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1955178,00.html
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?id=2475317
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100209193325/http://www.haitipressnetwork.com/news.cfm?articleID=13365 to http://www.haitipressnetwork.com/news.cfm?articleID=13365

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:34, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Spelling

I've noticed this too Taziobaker, however there is a reluctance if it contradicts WP:COMMONNAME. In many English sources, this "erroneous" spelling is used, which happens quite a lot. I'll investigate further. Thanks for pointing that out. Savvyjack23 (talk) 02:03, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Also, in the French Wikipedia all Wikipedias, it also has it spelled this way which furthered my reluctance to change it. Savvyjack23 (talk) 02:06, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Hello Savvyjack23,

Thank you for investigating on the matter.

For your convenience, here are some Haitian government website references to expedite the process:

Police National d'Haiti:

• http://www.pnh.ht/index.php/epolice/recrutement (link referring to the city)
• http://www.pnh.ht/images/pdf/91.pdf (an official document )

Office des Postes d'Haiti (Haitian postal office):

• http://www.laposte.gouv.ht/details.php?ID=34

Conseil Electoral Provisoire (Haitian electoral governing body):

• https://www.cephaiti.ht/Recherche.html?searchphrase=all&searchword=petion (search result for "petion")

Ministère de la Santé Publique et de la Population (MSPP) (Health and population ministry):

• http://mspp.gouv.ht/newsite/?s=petion (search result for "petion")

France Diplomatie (France diplomacy website):

• http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/conseils-aux-voyageurs/conseils-par-pays/haiti/#voyageurs_affaires (under Voyage d'affaires tab)

The correct spelling of the name of the cite is Pétion-Ville. For comparison, when Nashville, Tennessee is written in an other language it keeps its spelling, now I may understand that the "é" may be lost when writing in English as it does not exist in English, but the dash does exist and it's obviously part of the name's correct spelling.

Looking forward to your positive reply,

Taziobaker (talk) 02:54, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

You're welcome Taziobaker and thanks for expediting the process. Let's get this solved as soon as possible. Below may seem excessive, but it is not; guidelines are strict.

Analysis

So, here's what I've found. The number of search engine hits in reputable areas (where a capitalized "V" in Ville yielded the same results as a lowercase "v", and alternate spellings were cancelled out in four different spellings to find the greatest possible number of each one) were as follows:

GoogleBooks: Pétionville 10,800 [1]; Pétion-Ville 36,900 [2]; Petionville 11,600 [3]; Petion-Ville 9,540 [4]

GoogleNews: Pétionville 3,000 [5]; Pétion-Ville 5,600 [6]; Petionville 3,140 [7]; Petion-Ville 3,240 [8]

GoogleScholar: Pétionville 606 [9]; Pétion-Ville 515 [10]; Petionville 721 [11]; Petion-Ville 230 [12]

GoogleMaps: Pétionville ZERO (0) [13]; Pétion-Ville 1-20 [14]; Petionville 1 [15]; Petion-Ville 1-20 [16]

"All" Google: Pétionville 362,000 [17]; Pétion-Ville 690,000 [18]; Petionville 701,000 [19]; Petion-Ville 407,000 [20]

JSTOR: Pétionville 106 [21]; Pétion-Ville 16 [22]; Petionville 238 [23]; Petion-Ville 21 [24]

Major newspapers

Le Nouvelliste (Haiti): Pétionville 510 [25]; Pétion-Ville 92,600 [26]; Petionville 30 [27]; Petion-Ville 348 [28]

Le Matin (Haiti): Pétionville 0 [29]; Pétion-Ville 3,910 [30]; Petionville 2 [31]; Petion-Ville 5 [32]

Listín Diario (República Dominicana): Pétionville 46 [33]; Pétion-Ville 128 [34]; Petionville 143 [35]; Petion-Ville 213 [36] (mostly with a space; no dash "Petion Ville")

The New York Times: : Pétionville 134 [37]; Pétion-Ville 7 [38]; Petionville 139 [39]; Petion-Ville 4 [40]

USA Today: Pétionville 25 [41]; Pétion-Ville 1 [42]; Petionville 91 [43]; Petion-Ville 124 [44] (mostly with a space; no dash "Petion Ville")

Search results: (excluding "individual" major newspaper search; too narrow)

1. Pétion-Ville (3 first-place, 1 second-place, 1 third-place, 1 fourth-place; total results=732,451) (Leads: Books, News, Maps)

2. Petionville (3 first-place, 1 second-place, 2 third-place, 0 fourth-place; total results=716,700) (Leads: Scholar, "All" Google search, JSTOR)

3. Petion-Ville (1 first-place, 1 second-place, 2 third-place, 2 fourth-place; total results=420,051) (Co-Leads: Maps) N

4. Pétionville (0 first-place, 2 second-place, 1 third-place, 3 fourth-place; total results=376,506) (Leads: NONE) N

Conclusion

From this search a few things is evident:

• Pétionville is actually the least used.
• Petionville is used in most English-based circulars
• -Ville is more often used "in total" than when the dash (-) is not used.
• Interestingly, even though less frequent, the French acute accent is used as well as the dash (-), which makes sense that Wikipedia occasionally adheres to accent marks used for names of people and places, with the exception of historical name differences such as "Germany" (Deutschland), Venice (Venezia) etc.

Note: Many editors may overlook GoogleMaps, but should not. When travelling and seen on a GPS map, its spelling becomes very necessary in locating the right place of destination. Often times slight changes in names can lead a person to the wrong place. The weight of it was not lost in determining this result.

Lastly, the results used by Haitian officials, the occasional use in circulars and the fact that our English encyclopedia assumes foreign spellings at times, may just be enough to narrow out WP:COMMONNAME in favor of Pétion-Ville Y

With that being said all Wikipedia languages currently use the former, Pétionville; found to be the least used. This may need to be systematically amended but its not an easy feat and will be very tedious. Although in time, they may all follow suit. There should be no quarrels in the French Wikipedia as this spelling is overwhelmingly favored and should be next to be changed/moved. Savvyjack23 (talk) 05:36, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Great news Savvyjack23. Can I start changing every where in Wikipedia that it is wrong? How can I change the title and url of the page to reflect the correct spelling? Taziobaker (talk) 16:32, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Yes Taziobaker, you can go for it. Try this in a search site:en.wikipedia.org Pétionville Petionville Petion-Ville; it will find them all in the English Wikipedia. Cheers! Savvyjack23 (talk) 22:33, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you Savvyjack23.

However, I've been getting a lot of opposition on en.wikivoyage.org and wikitravel.org, are they part of Wikipedia? If so, can you guide me on how to proceed?

On https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Talk:P%C3%A9tionville they say what you researched and determine is not enough and

On http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Talk:Pétionville the discussed page even got deleted, I wrote to the deleter talk page and now I see it is back on. Now I see it was removed by mistake during a routine spam cleanup.

Taziobaker (talk) 22:56, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

It is a part of Wikipedia (as we can edit those as well) and should be enough since satisfying common name is arguably the deal-breaker. That being said there might need to be a consensus made on those sites. Let's check it out. Savvyjack23 (talk) 23:02, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

By the way Taziobaker if you come across a book or newspaper title in a source code that published the alternative spelling, please leave those as is. Savvyjack23 (talk) 01:01, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Petionville1.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:36, 10 August 2018 (UTC)