Talk:My Apocalypse

Genre

There is no way this is just "Rock" it is undoubtedly Thrash Metal. I don't see how it can be construed as rock. It has all of Thrash's Characteristics: Speed and Harsh Vocals. It is in dire need of a change. --Kgardner1123 (talk) 04:42, 27 August 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kgardner1123 (talk • contribs) 04:03, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, it has no sources saying it is Thrash Metal. We don't use our own judgment on Wikipedia, we use reliable sources, and our only reliable source says its rock. I have reverted your edits until you can produce a reliable source. --The Guy _complain ^edits 04:13, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I've listened to it... I am listening to it right now.... and it is a heavy metal song that is very very very very fast. It is similar to Dyers Eve from the ...And Justice for All album.... a thrash metal album and Dyers Eve is, most certainly, a thrash metal song. Does every song need a genre reference??? No, hardly. The ones that have some sort of dispute perhaps. But for this song... a fast heavy metal song that sounds like Dyers Eve.... why is there this much debate and edit warring??? Use some common sense. Libs (talk) 10:53, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Lets Be Reasonable....

It is quite clearly heavier than Rock. I dont see how you need a source to tell you that this is thrash metal. But i think for the well being of this page, you should put something a little more reasonable than rock. It just doesnt make sense. The lyrics don't even resemble rock. Its Thrash man. I know i don't need a website to tell me that it is.

--Kgardner1123 (talk) 04:48, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

WP:OR states we do not publish our own opinions on Wikipedia, but reliable sources. I don't care how "unreasonable" it is, it's staying "Rock" until you find me a citation. --The Guy _complain ^edits 05:17, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

If you need citation to change the genre of the music to a form of Metal, don't you also need citation to have the genre as rock? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gedmundo (talk • contribs) 18:39, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

The citation was the place where it was being sold -- iTunes. This argument is closed, now, anyways. --The Guy _complain ^edits 18:46, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry that I didnt complain, but it is Trash. I love this song simply because it brings back old good Metallica. My Favorite Song!!! Sorry Im not signed in. 24.253.28.184 (talk) 23:45, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Single Status

Now, seeing as someone put "citation needed" next to the sentence stating My Apocalypse is the "official" forty-first single following The Day That Never Comes, is it actually a single? From what I understand, Metallica.com is releasing a few more songs each Monday before the album is out. Yet, we wouldn't and shouldn't assume they're all being released as singles. I'm only asking, but I really don't think My Apocalypse is a single. Isn't it rather odd to release two singles within a week of each other? I believe they just offered it up as an online sample. Does being able to buy it on iTunes automatically make it an official single? In any case, I miss the old days of when you heard it on the radio, you knew it was a single. Wilhelm Screamer (talk) 05:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

"Single" - "A song released before an album, to promote the album," is that not what this is? Its a promotional single, meaning it'll get sold in various places, but probably not played on the radio. But any song released before the corresponding album is, by definition, a "single." --The Guy _complain ^edits 05:37, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I understand that, but if singles are only considered singles if they are released before an album, how does one explain songs like The Unnamed Feeling, Sad but True, and many, many others? They were all released after the album, but are still listed as singles on their respective Wikipedia pages. The definition of a single is far too broad. According to the article itself, a single was originally 1) released on vinyl, tape, or CD, and/or 2) received radio or television play. Unfortunately, the internet has clouded things up when it comes to what a single is. So, now that My Apocalypse and Cyanide are singles on Wikipedia, I assume someone will add the other three released last night, All Nightmare Long, Broken, Beat & Scarred, and The Judas Kiss. They're no different than how My Apocalypse and Cyanide were released. From there, the band is likely to release every track on their website as promotional material, before and after the release of the album. So, the entire album is all singles just because it fits the broad definition? I think we need a better definition of a single, otherwise any track released from an album, even if it's EVERY single track from an album, will be considered a single on Wikipedia, and that's just silly. The only accurate singles for Metallica are the ones listed prior to Death Magnetic. Wilhelm Screamer (talk) 22:56, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

it´s not a single until it is physically released on cd or vinyl —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.47.167.226 (talk) 11:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

When You Download it from Itunes it Says "My Apocalypse - Single" (202.37.168.14 (talk) 02:05, 8 September 2008 (UTC))

Why not?

… ‘ “ ’ ” ° ″ ′ ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ± − × ÷ ← → · § Ok, whether the genre on 'My Apocalypse' be changed or not, it is widely known that Metallica=thrash metal, and this has always been their genre. Also, 'My Apocalypse' is on the same album as 'The Day That Never Comes', and for reasons unknown, that song IS corrctly labelled Thrash Metal. This fact is all the stranger if you consider that "The Day That Never Comes' is actually the downbeat song of the album. If it had to be mislabeled, then it would have been the other way around, surely. But since the downbeat song of the album is concidered thrash metal, isn't it safe to state then that 'My Apocalypse' should be concidered so as well? And also, Metallica always has a 'theme' going on on their albums, so to speak, and I think it's safe to state that if 1 song on their new album is thrash, the rest is as well. Thank you. Nyghtslave (talk) 05:44, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I believe what you said all constitutes original research. I'll tell you what I told everyone else -- Find a source. --The Guy _complain ^edits 05:47, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Jonasbrothersareterrible 17:07, 06 September 2008

It sounds like the song Master of Puppets which is classified as Thrash metal. What more proof do you need! You know it's tharsh so don't call it Rock!

Sources

May I refer to one of wiki's own articles, referring to Metallica as one of the "Big Four" in Thrash Metal, link here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrash_metal Also on wiki's own Metallica site it refers to Thrash Metal, Heavy Metal, Speed metal and Hard Rock, but never rock. Link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallica Also an external source labels the album as being Thrash Metal. I refer to RockBox.com, link to complete article and genre labelling here: REMOVED: THIS WAS A LINK TO A DOWNLOAD. NEVER POST DOWNLOAD LINKS, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE.

I hope this constitutes the change of genre to at least Metal, if not Thrash. Thank you.Nyghtslave (talk) 07:18, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't. A reliable source is a third-party publication, not Wikipedia itself.

Here's an alternative. Since people hate the whole "Rock" moniker, let's leave the genre blank until someone finds a citation for thrash metal. Sound good? --The Guy _complain ^edits 17:12, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Or we could be less anal about it and just use common sense. Waste of time edit war. Libs (talk) 17:21, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

No personal attacks please. Sorry but saying its thrash metal and using our own judgment does constitute original research, and it's not verifiable by a reliable source, either. I told you all what has to be satisfied for thrash metal to be posted, and so far only one of you is even trying to satisfy that. --The Guy _complain ^edits 17:27, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I never attacked anyone. Notice my post said "we" not "you". And I never said the song was thrash metal. I said, in an earlier post, that it was a very very very very fast heavy metal song... which it is... and that it sounds like Dyers Eve... which it does. That's just what the song is. I never expressed an opinion on a definite genre. And I am not going to violate WP:OWN/WP:3RR on the article like other editors have over a lame edit war. Libs (talk) 17:40, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Alright, then, sorry. But I only violated WP:3RR, and I only just remembered that rule. I didn't violate WP:OWN because I stated that if somebody can find some citations, then it could be applied, otherwise it would constitute original research. --The Guy _complain ^edits 17:55, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Dudes it is thrash metal can't you fucking hear it?!

I can, yes. But that doesn't make it alright to use our own judgment on here. --The Guy _complain ^edits 21:19, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

HAY GUISE LETS ARGUE GENRES MOAR PLS.

Constituting original research

Currently, changing the genre of this article constitutes original research (please see the article on it), because it doesn't cite a reliable source (please read that article as well), so I am proposing, for all the "die-hards" a consensus. I will not allow the article to violate WP:OR, by any means. That doesn't mean I constitute WP:OWN, it just means I follow the rules. So here's the middle ground: Since all the policies run against applying "Thrash metal" without a citation, let's leave it blank until a valid citation appears. I have posted the hidden message somebody tore down, and I have typed that taking it down constitutes vandalism, and the user who does it will be warned. So I suggest keeping it blank, and if anybody has any disputes, place them here. But remember, we do not use our own judgment on Wikipedia, by any means, not even for genres. --The Guy _complain ^edits 22:31, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I have a question... Since 99.9% of all genre fields in music related articles on Wikipedia do not have a reference. Are you going to remove all of the uncited genres across all of Wikipedia??? Libs 22:35, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Further... can you detail where WP:ALBUM#Genres says anything about genres being referenced??? It is a comma separated list of piped links... and only the first word of the first genre needs to be capitalised since it's a sentence structured list and genres aren't proper nouns. Where does it say referenced? Libs 22:38, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

It says it needs to be cited at WP:OR. Its that simple. --The Guy _complain ^edits 22:40, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Further: Wikiproject is not a guideline of set-in-stone rules, either, whereas WP:OR applies to all content across Wikipedia. Also, as for your first comment: WP:WAX? --The Guy _complain ^edits 22:44, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

The whole basis of Wikipedia is for facts to be cited by reliable, external sources, be it book, website, or any publication. At this point in time, no reliable, external sources can be cited to say that this is thrash metal. I could say this is folk music, and it has the same validity as the claim at the bottom of the above section. So, for the time being, until proper sources can be found stating this is thrash metal or any other genre(s). Calor (talk) 23:04, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

If you added that it was folk music... that would be classed as simple vandalism because you would've purposely added content that was blatantly false. I don't know if it's thrash metal or not. It's a very very very very fast heavy metal song that sounds like Dyers Eve. It's anyone's call after that. I think Dyers Eve is a thrash metal song. Maybe I am wrong. The album it comes from is a thrash metal album. But that genre has no reference... that's just what it is. Dyers Eve has no article of it's own because it's a non-notable song. Libs 23:14, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Any edits in good faith do not constitute vandalism, wrong is wrong, there's no "that 20% wrong, while that's 50%." But if a user was previously warned, yet still reverted the edit, then I firmly believe that constitutes vandalism. --The Guy _complain ^edits 23:23, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

You warned an editor about contradicting your personal pov. There was no vandalism edit anywhere in there.... so far. Now, if someone sticks bluegrass in there... that would be trolling akin to vandalism as it would be purposely adding false content. Need to check that... try adding thrash metal to the Bill Monroe genre field and see how long it takes to be reverted with a vandalism warning. My only real complaint is that if anyone sticks a genre in there... spell the stupid thing correctly so it doesn't create a re-direct link. the M in Thrash metal isn't capitalized. Libs 23:30, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I said good faith edit. I never warned an editor for contradicting my personal beliefs, I warned them for purposely re-adding unverified information and a download link, and being specifically warned not to. --The Guy _complain ^edits 23:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) My point was that calling it folk music is as verifiable as calling it thrash music. Saying it "sounds like thrash because of x, y, and z" may be true, but as it's original research and not backed up by reliable sources, it's as verifiable as saying it's folk music. Calor (talk) 23:32, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Your point???? How many "yous" are there in there??? Did you forget which account you were logged in as before you posted that???? I am confused as to who is talking here? Almost smells like two user accounts coming from the same keyboard. Which would be troubling since one editor already caught for 3RR had his edit mimiced by the other... after the 3RR warning was issued. Libs 23:37, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Just one me over here. Although if you doubt that, you can always bring it up at WP:RFCU. My IP will be different than his. Calor (talk) 23:39, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Just one editors here, too. --The Guy _complain ^edits 23:42, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I can AGF that. Besides... RCUs, SSPs and 3RRs are all a pain in the ass to compose.(in case anyone was sweating there :-D ) Just got caught in the keyboard parrot posts.

The other track released from this album is also tagged as a thrash metal song (because it sounds like "One" or "Sanitarium") There is no edit war going on over there. Why is this one such a thorn. It's a very very very very very fast heavy metal song that sounds like Dyers Eve. The whole basis for the edit war is just baffling. Libs 23:45, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Once again, WP:WAX. You're still trying to use your own judgment to claim that this should stay thrash metal, but you have WP:V and WP:OR both against you. As "baffling" as it is, its still a valid discussion, and a more-than-valid issue. --The Guy _complain ^edits 23:48, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

that's the second time you've linked to that. Is this article up for AfD? If someone changes it from thrash metal to heavy metal I won't be whining anywhere about it. As long as they get the link correct. I can't count how many times I've corrected "heavy metal" to "heavy metal music" to avoid the stupid re-direct. It's a very very very very very fast heavy metal song. Maybe it's speed metal??? Perhaps that option is more valid than thrash metal. They are slightly different. One might make no sense over the other 2. Libs 23:54, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if you're even opening WP:WAX. It says to avoid "we have article X which is just as important as article y, therefore article y should stay, too." That also applies to article content. You're giving me "thrash metal is labeled on The Day That Never Comes without a struggle," but that's not relevant, because this is not The Day That Never Comes's article. Trying to tell me basically "if you're going to make a fuss here, make a fuss there, too," or "if you're not going to make a fuss there, don't make one here." That's not a valid argument to make, and that's why I posted WP:WAX. --The Guy _complain ^edits 00:03, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

WP:WAX is a guideline for good vs bad arguments for an AfD. I am not inviting anyone to go edit war somewhere else. That would = pointless x 2 for the day for Metalica related article edit wars. What does wp:wax have to do with this WP:CON discussion? Is this song a heavy metal song... a speed metal song... or a thrash metal song? That's really been the only valid debate all day. It's one of those three. Which one is it? Anyone can opinion on this. I have no problem with any of the three candidates... as I've said all along... as long as they get the link correct. Libs 00:10, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

You can say its one of those three, but without citations, that's about the equivalent of saying its bluegrass, at least on Wikipedia. This discussion is about referencing the genre in the article... Which WP:OR deems necessary, and no one has yet done, so why is there a genre listed, and why is this debate still going on? --The Guy _complain ^edits 01:22, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Your debate foundation still baffles me and I can't see your point? So you would like to add bluegrass to the infobox??? Go ahead and see how long it takes to get a V warning for it. If you are simply offering it as an option for consensus debate here on this page then that is fine. Anyone who wants to support Dude527's opinion that Bluegrass is the genre of this song... lets hear it. Libs 01:37, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Meanwhile, back in the real Wiki-world... I read an article today at KBS Radio's website written by Don Kaye(journalist who writes for Guitar World, Revolver, Kerrang!, Creem, Circus, Hit Parader, Metal Mania, Metal Maniacs, Rock Scene, Alternative Press... etc.. etc.. etc) Mr Kaye describes the track as a fast thrash metal anthem in the style of vintage Metallica numbers such as "Battery" and "Damage Inc." I don't really hear too much "Battery" in the track myself??? I still hear Dyers Eve. Oh well... back to the Bluegrass debate. Libs 01:47, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

There you go. All I asked for was a reference, you just provided one. Debate closed. --The Guy _complain ^edits 02:00, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

It didn't need one though. Does this mean you're withdrawing your opinion to add bluegrass?? Libs 02:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

It did need one, or it would've constituted original research. --The Guy _complain ^edits 02:12, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

You really trolled the hell out of us. Conservoman (talk) 20:44, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Be nice to each other, mmkay?

This is not directly relevant to the article as such, but just take it easy, ok?

I _think_ this is trash-metal, most journalists will probably agree when they hear it, and then they'll write about it providing plenty of sources. And then the article will probably be deleted because it's not notable enough.

No need to get over-excited about a small detail on a brand new soon-to-be-deleted stub...

I mean, maybe we could all just relax and listen to this cool new song, no? 91.177.138.16 (talk) 09:05, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

"It's easy, m'kay! - Mr. Mackey —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wilhelm Screamer (talk • contribs) 23:04, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry

Sorry for interupting your guys' catfight, but can someone explain y this article is up for deletion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachslash (talk • contribs) 04:48, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Lyrical themes headline?

I've seen that a lot of other pages for singles have a section about lyrical themes, so why not this one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by LNERfan (talk • contribs) 04:03, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Arch Enemy Song

On the Album Doomsday Machine (2005) by Arch Enemy, the 4th track is My Apocalypse. There's also a video with the same title. Shouldn't we add a disambiguation to this page? Linking maybe to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Machine_(album)

My Apocalypse is an iconic song of this band, and pretty important in the Metal scene. If you ask anyone that listens to Heavy Metal of any kind about My Apocalypse, he'll think about Arch Enemy's song, not Metallica's (Not to mention it predates Metallica's song by over 3 years)

Sebastian -- almafuerte@gmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.188.149.64 (talk) 08:03, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

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