Talk:Michigan State University College of Law

LSAT Data

Source needed for "suggested LSAT" data.

"Legends and Icons"

I have removed this section for the following reasons:

• The "working tort lab" is an in-joke at the school, but its entry here does not treat it as such.
• "The Rock" is not specifically related to the College of Law.

Kevin Forsyth (talk) 18:07, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Working Tort Lab

I continue to disagree that the "Working Tort Lab" joke is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia. Just because the joke was supposedly made by a professor does not make it any more valid, and a phrase clearly intended to justify its entry — "Many within the law college find this legend endearing" — is weaselly. That said, I will refrain from deleting it again for now, and tag it for what it is: in need of a reliable source. Kevin Forsyth (talk) 22:57, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Picture needed

This article would benefit from having a picture of the Detroit College of Law as it stood on Elizabeth Street. It is a large part of the history. Even the new building has some of the pld architectural sculptures scattered around. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 02:05, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Picture needed

An historical picture of the Elizabeth Street Building, Detroit, Michigan is especially needed. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:05, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Category change

There is an ongoing discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Speedy to delete the Category Detroit College of Law alumni. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:10, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Same college, different name and location?

It seems this has arisen because some DCL graduates have an aversion to the college's association with Michigan State University. However, judging by the sources it seems quite clear that the MSU College of Law shares a common history going back to the Detroit College of Law (it was initially called "Detroit College of Law at Michigan State University"). It looks like DCL got a brand new building out of the 'affiliation' when the lease on their previous long standing location expired.
Clearly if there is only a tenuous connection between DCL and MSUCL, then the DCL article should be split from here. But nobody has proposed that path so far. In fact 7&6=thirteen's 2012 comment above calls for illustrations of DCL to be added here. Sionk (talk) 12:03, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

I never used the word "aversion", and I don't think Detroit College of Law alumni are necessarily adverse to Michigan State University or Michigan State University College of Law. Can't speak for all the alumni. I presume that most alumni wish the reborn and transmorgrified successor to the Detroit College of law success.

My comments pertained only to the ongoing proposal to eliminate the Category Detroit College of Law alumni. Indeed, I suggested that it would best be handled by keeping he category, and perhaps making it a subcategory of Michigan State University College of Law alumni.

I don't think creating a new article benefits the encyclopedia. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:43, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm not a DCL grad, and am not averse to MSU or its school of law. I do think however that it is misleading, or at least confusing, to categorize graduates of the old DCL in Detroit, exclusively as graduates of the MSUCL in E. Lansing. The 90 mile change in venue alone is, to my mind, sufficient to support continuation of the old DCL category. JohnInDC (talk) 14:43, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

I suggest you visit the discussion. As has been pointed out, there have been other instances of schools renaming and moving, and this is not how categories were dealt with there. I too appreciate the logic behind two categories, and perhaps that should be changed, but so far the comments have been overly specific to this school, which at this point in the conversation is not helping much. Hence why I encourage folks to take the conversation there. :) --Varnent (talk)^(COI) 01:53, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

All three of the commenters here have visited that discussion, and all commented pretty extensively. JohnInDC (talk) 02:24, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

All three appear to be commenting on the specific category at issue which is specific to this school. While a general rule may be well and fine generally, this is an exception: like putting a square peg into a round hole. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:55, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

I didn't raise this here to continue the discussion about the alumni category. I raised it because there is a strong assertion (at Categories for Discussion) that DCL and MSUCL are different colleges. In which case the article needs to be split. Sionk (talk) 19:24, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Candidly, I think there is overlap. The Detroit College of Law is the root from which the Michigan State University College of Law sprung. I never suggested they were so severable. I intend to rewrite the article to further highlight and make meaningful the past, present and future. I think this can be done under one umbrella. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:48, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

99-Year Lease?

The article mentions that Detroit College of Law was located at 130 E. Elizabeth Street, in Detroit, from 1937 to 1997. It goes on to state that it moved in 1997, because its 99-year lease with the YMCA expired. Hold on a minute! From 1937 to 1997 is only 60 years. What happened to the other 39? Did Detroit College of Law lease a building for 39 years before moving into it, or was it located at 130 E. Elizabeth Street from 1898 to 1997? 174.17.137.81 (talk) 18:56, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Presumably, they used the YMCA, which was next door. The building was built in 1937, but the existence of the college and its relationship to the YMCA antedated that. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:08, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Here are eight sources, which should be mined and put into the Wikipedia article.

• Detroits YMCA Been Around Longer Than You Think

• Freedman, Eric (June 3, 1996). "DETROIT COLLEGE OF LAW SUES YMCA IN TRUST DISPUTE". Crain’s Detroit Business. The YMCA's involvement with DCL dates back to when it operated DCL, from 1915 to 1940. YMCAs also ran 10 other law schools across the country, an outgrowth of its pioneering activities in higher education. Ties were severed in 1940 under pressure from the bar association, which was unhappy with financial interdependence between law schools and noncollege entities, which could divert law-school revenue. The bar association also conditioned DCL's accreditation on maintaining a separate operation and organization.

• Detroit Institute of Technology Wikipedia article

• Hirsch, William F. Education Work of the Young Men’s Christian Association (PDF). Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office. p. 14. {{cite book}}: |work= ignored (help)

• "Detroit Institute of Technology, Detroit, Michigan 1891-1982". lostcolleges.com.

• Finnegan, Dorothy E. (March/June 2005). "JOURNAL ARTICLE: Raising and Leveling the Bar: Standards, Access, and the YMCA Evening Law Schools, 1890-1940". Journal of Legal Education. 55 (1/2). Association of American Law Schools: 208-233 (26 pages). {{cite journal}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)(subscription required)

• "Exterior sketch of the Y.M. C. A. College of Law. Written on photo front: "1931, Detroit Y.M.C.A. College of Law, Construction Started 11/6/36, George D. Mason & Co., Architects, 440." Written on photo back: "D/Architecture-Mason & Rice Colln. #1, Detroit College of Law."" (Photograph). Burton Historical Collection, Detroit Public Library.

• Pursglove, Sheila (November 13, 2015). "MSU Law Dedicates College of Law Plaza". Detroit Legal News. contains the following quote:

More than 100 people gathered at Michigan College of Law on October 22 for the dedication of the law school’s new entrance, the Detroit College of Law Plaza that honors thousands of alumni who graduated from DCL in downtown Detroit, before the historic law school affiliated with MSU in 1995.

The event included a ribbon-cutting ceremony carried out by Dean Joan Howarth; MSU President Lou Anna K. Simon; Linda Orlans, ’87, chair, MSU College of Law Board of Trustees; Bryan Melvin from the MSU Law Alumni Association, senior counsel at e-Title Commercial in Detroit; and two of the plaza “founders,” the Hon. Peter Lucido and Professor Emeritus Clark Johnson, who helped spearhead the project. A reception followed in the John F. Schaefer Law Library, where Howarth, Simon, Lucido, and Orlans each offered remarks.

A fund-raising campaign raised more than $1.3 million, of which more than $800,000 is earmarked for DCL Legacy Scholarships.

The plaza features a granite seal noting DCL’s founding in 1891 by a group of law clerks and students, who previously had to “read law” in local attorneys’ offices. During the first two years of DCL’s history, the directors were themselves students. [Emphasis added.]

According the MSU Law website, the first class of 69 graduates included a future circuit court judge and a future ambassador. A woman in the first class and an African American in the second exemplified the Law College’s commitment to offering all sectors of the population an opportunity for a quality legal education.

Before the affiliation with MSU Law in East Lansing, DCL was housed at the former Detroit College of Medicine building on St. Antoine Street; the Detroit YMCA building; and on Elizabeth Street. [Emphasis added.]

The last location of the DCL is commemorated by a plaque at Comerica Park, which now occupies the site.

Hope that takes care of your question. Cheers. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:50, 5 March 2021 (UTC)