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Talk:Melbourne Rising

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Latest comment: 5 years ago by Rugbyfan22 in topic Current squad
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Untitled 2010 comment

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Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

It's a pretty minor issue - but this page should be moved to "Melbourne Rebels (ARC)" from "Melbourne Rebels(ARC)". Thanks. 121.217.240.119 (talk) 05:28, 16 January 2010 (UTC)Reply

Assessment

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Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Lightly cited, needs more for improved class rating. SauliH (talk) 00:18, 25 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Melbourne Rebels (ARC)

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Latest comment: 10 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Why does the Melbourne Rebels (ARC) redirect to this page? The Melbourne Rising and the Melbourne Rebels (ARC) are two completely different teams. The wiki page of the Melbourne Rebels (ARC) is an important stepping stone in the Melbourne Rebels narrative which shouldn't be completely lost. Can someone who knows what they're doing please reinstate the ARC page? Comes.amanuensis (talk) 09:44, 18 August 2014 (UTC)Reply

Look anew at Melbourne Rebels (ARC) redirection. The narrative has been kept and the information has not been lost. It directs to this page because this was the Melbourne ARC page. The page history remains intact. The NRC was widely reported as a relaunch, or reinstatement, of the ARC. Refer to Australia relaunches National Rugby Championship, or ARU to relaunch domestic rugby competition, and Australian rugby championship set to be revived next year. In the words of the Melbourne Rebels CEO himself:

I have been appointed to the commission to oversee the implementation of the NRC, so I have been heavily involved behind the scenes. I think it is a wonderful reinstatement of the Australian Rugby Championship from 2007 that should, in my view, have never been disbanded.

— Rob Clarke, CEO Melbourne Rebels, interview with Rebels Media staffer Pete Fairbairn, 31 December 2013.
This is still the Melbourne Rebels' team in the national competition despite the differences of ownership and new name and players. The fact that the Rebels organisiation has chosen the name Rising for the revived NRC allows a clear distinction to be made from the Rebels Super Rugby team. Australian rugby is littered with examples of disbanded, re-branded, merged, and revived or renewed identities—see the histories of teams in the national competition including the Vikings, Rams and Rays. Despite differences including name changes and new management, the teams' identities are descended from their earlier incarnations. Separating the ARC antecedents will, rather than reinstate the history, split the narrative across dead end pages. -- Kiap (talk) 15:16, 18 August 2014 (UTC)Reply
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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Current squad

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Latest comment: 5 years ago11 comments3 people in discussion

@Rugbyfan22: Two columns in the squad table is for better viewability on smaller screens. -- Ham105 (talk) 10:04, 14 August 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Ham105: All other rugby tournaments that use wikitables (Super Rugby, Currie Cup, Pro14, Mitre 10 Cup) use three columns to better space out the squads so I don't see why this should be changed. Viewability is still good with three columns on mobile. Maybe this should be discussed on a larger talk page to see where the consensus is at. -- Rugbyfan22 (talk) 10:24, 14 August 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Rugbyfan22: Names are often wrapped when using three columns even in landscape.
  • I note you changed the format only 3 months ago for teams in Pro14: e.g. 1, 2, 3, 4, etc.
  • The original way, shown here, lists players two per line as forwards and backs.
  • While also a little wasteful by width, it is the logical basis used for the Premiership, Top14, Top12, MLR and more.
  • Forwards and backs are also the natural logical groupings in short-form squads: e.g. 5, [1], [2].
There is no requirement to cram three wide. A two-byte edit resolves it. -- Ham105 (talk) 11:58, 14 August 2019 (UTC)Reply
@Ham105: Thanks for your comments. I edited the Pro14 formats as I personally find the Rugby squad start template difficult to read on both PC and mobile. However I'm happy to change the majority of squads that use the 3 column template to a 2 column template if you feel it would be appropriate. I can't find any reason why they were changed to wikitables in the first place, although I think they look neater like this. -- Rugbyfan22 (talk) 12:26, 14 August 2019 (UTC)Reply
@Rugbyfan22: And thanks back in return, it's good to chat to weigh things up to try to improve things moving forward. I do also prefer the single wikitable (just with 2 columns for small screens instead of 3).
  • For me, the forwards/backs split on the Rugby squad method makes sense (and it's OK for me on PC). But I agree, on a hand-held it can mean horizontal scrolling (a bit wasteful on width).
  • With making the 3s into 2s, I'm supportive but think one NRC season of 8 teams as a trial first is the way to go.
  • I'm looking at making it simpler to convert squads into archive versions to put on season pages (like Super Rugby). A test run to fine tune - plus let editors see how it can work.
  • It's OK to have small local variations between comps. NRC is also a low-profile comp (especially in a RWC year).
Thoughts? -- Ham105 (talk) 13:13, 14 August 2019 (UTC)Reply
@Ham105: I understand where you're coming from with the wikitables. I only use on a PC and so the 3 columns just look better on there but then there's the weird split of Backrowers being in a column with half backs. I agree with a trial like you've suggested but i'd be interested to hear what other editors think. Teams like the Sunwolves and South African franchises named large squads this year (potentially due to it being a RWC year) and so with two columns there'd be lots of scrolling involved or a significant difference in column lengths (likely more forwards than backs named). I see that @TheMightyPeanut: edits the South African Super Rugby and Currie Cup sides so would be interested in knowing his views. -- Rugbyfan22 (talk) 15:09, 14 August 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Rugbyfan22: Yes, I know him and have chatted often. A couple of points:

  • The 3 columns don't always look good on a PC screen. Text wrapping is not uncommon – even on a wide screen. Compare the uncluttered smoothness of 2-Col versus the 3-Col example below:
2-Col
Western Force squad – Rapid Rugby 2019 [a][b]

Hooker

Prop

Lock

Backrow

Scrum-half

Fly-half

Centre

Wing

Fullback

(c) Denotes team captain, Bold denotes internationally capped, 1 denotes marquee player.

Notes:

  1. ^ An initial squad of 35 players was announced for the 2019 Rapid Rugby season:[1]
  2. ^ a b c d Prop Harrison Lloyd started for the Force during the Asian Showcase Series.[2] and halfbacks Angus Taylor and Rory O'Sullivan were named in matchday squads during the Pacific Showcase series.[3][4]
3-Col
Canterbury squad

Props

Hookers

Locks

Loose forwards

Halfbacks (Scrum-halves)

First five-eighths (Fly-halves)

Midfielders (Centres)

Outside Backs

(c) Denotes team captain, Bold denotes player is internationally capped
  • Second, vertical scrolling is not a problem. It will naturally happen on any page of more than stub length. That's not the case for horizontal scrolling, which should be avoided if possible.
  • Now, you mentioned the Sunwolves, and 70 players is indeed a big squad. Makes it messier but there are always options; plenty of ways to skin a cat, so to speak.
  • Compare the versions below. Vertical height is around the same in each case. One version wraps text more than the other, though. And on a PC-size sceen, one version doesn't wrap at all.
3-Col original

The squad for the 2019 Super Rugby season:[5][a][b][c][d][e][f][g][h]

Sunwolves Super Rugby squad

Props

Hookers

Locks

Flankers

Number Eights

Scrum-halves

Stand-offs (fly-halves)

Centres

Wingers

Fullbacks

(c) denotes team captain and Bold denotes internationally capped, ST denotes a short-term signing.
  1. ^ a b Matsuhashi was not included in the original squad, but was named in the squad in week 1.[6]
  2. ^ a b Timu was not included in the original squad, but was a late inclusion in the squad in week 4.[7]
  3. ^ a b Teaupa was not included in the original squad, but was included in the squad in week 5.[8]
  4. ^ a b Mikami was not included in the original squad, but was included in the squad in week 6.[9]
  5. ^ a b Yamasawa was not included in the original squad, but was included in the squad in week 6.[9]
  6. ^ a b Tatekawa was not included in the original squad, but was included in the squad in week 6.[9]
  7. ^ a b Yamanaka was not included in the original squad, but was included in the squad in week 6.[9]
  8. ^ a b Tokunaga was not included in the original squad, but was included in the squad in week 15.[10]
2-Col version

The squad for the 2019 Super Rugby season:[5][a] [b][c]

The squad for the 2019 Super Rugby season:[5]

Prop

Hooker

Lock

Backrow

Scrum-half

Fly-half

Centre

Wing

Fullback

  1. ^ a b c d Matsuhashi, Timu and Teaupa were not included in the original squad, but were added in week 1,[6] week 4 [7] and week 5, respectively.[8]
  2. ^ a b c d e Mikami, Yamasawa, Tatekawa and Yamanaka were not included in the original squad, but were added to the squad in week 6.[9]
  3. ^ a b Tokunaga was not included in the original squad, but was included in the squad in week 15.[10]
(c) Denotes team captain, Bold denotes internationally capped, 1 denotes marquee player.

I think the 2-col generally works better. But just to reiterate, the intention is not edit every rugby team page on this encyclopdia. My plan is to use this for the upcoming NRC season, and tweak, test and fine-tune. -- Ham105 (talk) 18:46, 14 August 2019 (UTC)Reply

The last time a similar discussion was held — here — there was more support for a three-column format. I don't see the point in creating a different non-standardised format, when there was already a minor consensus as to what the format should be. I agree that a 2-column version would look better for viewability on smaller screens, but it looks worse on bigger screens, because there is a lot of empty horizontal space. On the bigger screen I'm currently viewing it on, everything seems crammed into the leftmost third of the screen for no apparent reason. If it's readable on a small screen (even if it wraps), I would personally still prefer the three-column format. TheMightyPeanut (talk) 03:43, 17 August 2019 (UTC)Reply
@TheMightyPeanut: I'd like to know the size of your screen - would you please upload a screenshot of your view of the Melb Rising page to an image host (such as imgur.com) and link it? I was also part of the earlier discussion and it didn't consider the small screen aspect. -- Ham105 (talk) 04:13, 17 August 2019 (UTC)Reply
@Ham105: See here. My resolution is 1920x1080. If there are things that were not previously considered, then it would be worth reinitiating a conversation about it, rather than going against the consensus re the format. TheMightyPeanut (talk) 04:55, 17 August 2019 (UTC)Reply
@Ham105: @TheMightyPeanut: My screen view is much the same as TheMightyPeanut's with there being lots of horizontal space. I wondered if there was a way on centralising tables to that they're more central on the screen for a 2 column format. I'd still be more in favour of a three-column format though. -- Rugbyfan22 (talk) 11:22, 18 August 2019 (UTC)Reply


References

  1. ^ "Western Force Teams". Western Force. 8 February 2019. Archived from the original on 9 February 2019.
  2. ^ "Force produce powerful performance in Perth". Rapid Rugby. 12 April 2019. Archived from the original on 12 April 2019.
  3. ^ "Team Announcement: Western Force vs South China Tigers". Western Force. 11 May 2019.
  4. ^ "Team Announcement: Western Force vs Fijian Latui". Western Force. 23 May 2019. Archived from the original on 23 May 2019.
  5. ^ a b c "2019Squad". Sunwolves. 23 January 2019. Retrieved 23 January 2019.
  6. ^ a b @ntv_rugby (14 February 2019). "【📡BS日テレで開幕戦生中継❗】16日（土）よる7時54分～🐺サンウルブズがい いよ🏉スーパーラグビー今季開幕戦🦈シャークス戦を迎えます！サンウルブズはご覧のメンバー。🇯🇵日本代表候補選手も多数出場予定です！BS日テレで🇸🇬シンガポールから生中継します！#rugbyjp #sunwolves #日テレラグビー" (Tweet). Retrieved 14 February 2019 – via Twitter.
  7. ^ a b "Match Centre - Sanzar Blues vs. Sunwolves". SANZAR. Retrieved 9 March 2019.
  8. ^ a b "Hito-Communications Sunwolves Starting Line up for Round 5 vs Reds". Sunwolves (Press release). 14 March 2019. Retrieved 14 March 2019.
  9. ^ a b c d e "Starting Line up for Round 6 vs Lions". Sunwolves (Press release). 21 March 2019. Retrieved 21 March 2019.
  10. ^ a b "Starting Line up for Round 15 vs Rebels". Sunwolves (Press release). 23 May 2019. Retrieved 23 May 2019.
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