Talk:McAleer

McAleer - Cenel Moain

The McAleer's are descended from Moain son of Muirdach Mac Eogain son of Eogain Mac Neill son of Niall of the Nine Hostage.Recent DNA testing has proved This.They are not of Norse origin as has been suggested. Queenmedb99 (talk) 18:42, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

I am not an expert here at all. But I am a McAleer and I know what I am talking about I have been researching my family history for a number of years. I will admit to being a novice at editing and I have probably made a lot of mistakes. But my points are valid. My intention is to update with truth and not conjecture from an antiquated book full of inaccuracies that was published over a hundred years ago. I have had Deep family YDNA testing carried out to establish exactly who the McAleer's are. I have published results. I am also a member of a number of Projects at FTDNA researching the ancestry of the Cenel nEogain, the Cenel Moain from which the McAleer's descend. Page 55 FAMILIA ulster genealogical review 1990 Vol 2 No 6 states also that the McAleer's descend from the Cenel Moain. Moain 1 30 2023 Jaski McFh Lineages with SNPs is also further proof. Queenmedb99 (talk) 23:43, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Source problem

Folks, the second paragraph, about the alleged Norse origin of the name McAleer, is sourced only to a 1909 book by a George McAleer. But the publisher is also given as G. McAleer, of Worcester, MA. So it appears to be self-published and not peer-reviewed. That was a time when a lot of amateur genealogical research was being self-published, much of it fanciful and speculative. Often it's just a small number of bound copies paid for by the author, and such old self-publications can be a bane of genealogy research. So it does not look like a reliable source. And if it's the only source we have for the name origin, then I think that paragraph should be removed. At the very least, going by WP:RS policy, we can't use the book to source a statement of the name origin in Wikipedia's voice. What do people think? Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:58, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Bart Jaski has published a lot of work about genealogy.

https://ggi2013.blogspot.com/2019/09/speaker-profile-bart-jaski.html

there is a diagram titled Moain 1 30 2023 Jaski McFh Lineages with SNPs https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NcOUKhwOWGiASyfkAeztRKHVmO0hZ1ZN/edit#gid=1912668932 that has the Cenel Moain lineage overlay with the S588 > S603 > FGC57780 haplotree Queenmedb99 (talk) 18:01, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

That might be so, but it's not relevant to my question. I'm simply asking whether people think the 1909 George McAleer book is a reliable source per WP:RS policy. (And as an aside, blogs and Google spreadsheets are not reliable sources per WP:RS either). Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:14, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes-You made your point. The wikipedia entry is based mostly on George McAleer's assumptions. That I have been trying to change. Bart Jaski should not be dismissed off hand. He is a published PhD and an expert on Genealogy and ancestry. He has published lots of stuff. The blog spot explains who he is and leads you to his webpage where you can view his work to validate his credentials. As to your question Is George McAleer's book a reliable source? No it's not. Now I have a few questions for you. Who are you? and why are you so interested in McAleer family ancestry? Queenmedb99 (talk) 19:00, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm not dismissing Jaski in the slightest, it's just that he has no relevance whatsoever to this specific discussion. We need to do things a step at a time, so let's start by addressing the George McAleer source, shall we? Who am I? That's none of your damn business, and it is of no relevance to how Wikipedia works. And why am I so interested in McAleer family ancestry? I'm not, in the slightest. I just have a lot of Wikipedia experience (including having been admin for a good few years), I saw over at ANI that someone interested in genealogy needed help - and I have experience in that subject. So I'm just trying to help you understand why you're having problems and how to go about things. If you'd prefer I don't try to help and leave you to struggle, just say so. Frankly, your attitude to other editors is not helping you, and you will get on a lot better if you learn to listen and cooperate instead of insisting and demanding. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:06, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh, and in other cirumstances I'll be happy to explain why checking someone's own website to validate their credentials concerning their blogs etc, is not the way Wikipedia does it, but not here and not now. I'll just say that a personal web site is *not* a reliable source for anything - you really need to read and understand WP:RS. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:13, 10 May 2023 (UTC).

All you had to say was - you are admin."That's none of your damned business" Well that says it all. Good evening. Queenmedb99 (talk) 19:20, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm not an admin - I was, but I'm not now. And admin status is not relevant anyway - admins have no more say than anyone else over content issues. I'm just an editor like you, who is trying to help you if you'll let me. And who I am beyond that is indeed none of your business. So, if you want help, change your attitude. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:23, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

• I've tagged the George McAleer source as unreliable, pending any other responses here. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:46, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

  I'm also sceptical on the Norse origin subject. Here is the quote from George McAleer: "A valued Norwegian friend, a graduate of a university in Norway, who has devoted considerable time to genealogical study and to tracing the origin of names, assures me that the name McAleer is of Norse origin, and that it is still frequently encountered in Norway as Lier".

  This seems like a passing/unreliable comment to me, certainly not representative of what the article asserts about 'probably' being of Norse origin. Gaelicbow (talk) 09:31, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

  I agree. It's a self-published amateur saying "A friend told me...", which is really no use for us. I've been reading some more of the book, and it's not a scholarly work by a long way. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:52, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

• There's a misrepresentation in the article too. The article says "The name was transplanted to Ireland during the time of the Danish and Norwegian invasions, after which Mac was added to the name." But the source doesn't say that, it says "This name if transplanted to lreland during the time of the Dan- ish and Norwegian invasions would be Hibernici- zed by the addition of the prefix Mac and thus be- come the MacLeer and MacAleer of the present time." (my emphasis on "if"). His whole name origin writing is speculative, and he identifies many different names similar to "Lear", "Lir" etc from which the McAleer name might have originated, from different places. So not only is this not a reliable source, it doesn't even say what the article claims it says. I shall remove the paragraph. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:00, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

  PS: Old George doesn't seem too fond of the English, does he?... "that cruel conglomeration of the human family now called the Anglo-Saxon." :-) Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:01, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

  Hehe, indeed. Being an Irishman myself though I’m inclined to agree! But anyway thanks for removing that and all your help on solving this page/discussion. Gaelicbow (talk) 12:18, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

  I have both British and Irish citizenship, so part of me likes George (well, actually, all of me quite likes him). But I smile at the thought of being partly descended from "that cruel conglomeration" too :-). Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:51, 11 May 2023 (UTC)