Talk:Marquessate of the Valley of Oaxaca

Map??

Is there a map of this Marquisate? One picture=1,000 words, you know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bayowolf (talk • contribs) 17:49, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Extinction of the Marquisate

The title went extinct with the war of independence; the earliest formal mention of the fact is the Consitucion de Apatzingan in 1814. While it was only meaningful in territories controlled by Morelos, it was the earliest formal statement that the nobility was gone. The constitution of 1824 didn't even bother to mention hereditary titles, although the constitution of 1857 did re-state that no titles of nobility are recognized -but was largely a statement of the de-facto reality since the war of independence. Without a royal authority, nobility carried no meaning.

If you really want to quibble about the dates, 1857 is the absolute latest date that can be claimed. I'd prefer to state it from the earliest formal statement and the de-facto reality which resulted - there appears to have been no recognition of noble titles after Iturbide's fall. Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 04:58, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Constitution of Apatzingan was an empty claim until 1821. So, under Spanish Reconquista between 1814 and 1821, did Marquisate actually hold Oaxaca? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.35.248.23 (talk) 21:15, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Assumed titles

It is not possible that "After the 12th Marquis died in 1859, his successors as Duke of Monteleone appear to have not renewed this title until 1916, when the 16th Duke of Monteleone became the 13th Marquis of the valley of Oaxaca". Titles are not "renewed" by successors, they are taken up or inherited. And if family members failed to use the title until 1916, that does not mean that the title does not exist, or that the numbering can be altered. There would have been a 13th, 14th and probably 15th marquis before 1916,even if they did not use the title.Royalcourtier (talk) 08:36, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Removed the extinction date. However, the Spanish crown has a role in succession - see the order 19804 in Boletín Official del Estado, which explicitly names someone who is not the heir by the rules you state. Presumably this is associated with the conditions of the entailment. Do you have better sources? Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 14:46, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

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