Talk:Lorraine Bridges
 | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||
| ||||||||
External links for dates
editNikkimaria has twice removed the Find a Grave template from this article. The second time they removed the link, they elaborated that it was not a useful link. This is not the case. The link includes information on not only where the Lorraine Bridges grave is located, but a transcription of her dates. This is important to the study of Bridges. As Bridges has no Library of Congress Authority record and no obituary on her was found, the only other source for her dates is IMDb (and BFI, which I suspect may only be mirroring IMDb's dates). Even IBDB doesn't have dates. Note that I wasn't even able to include information on her death in her biography due to my current inability to source that information. This is where external links are helpful. Even if it isn't useful to Nikkimaria, it is useful to those who are seeking to confirm her dates (because IMDb is sometimes wrong) and otherwise continue the research into Bridges to know where she is buried and what her dates were. Furthermore, Find a Grave is an acceptable template to use. That's why it's a template. It wasn't used as a source. I welcome Nikkimaria's comments regarding this matter. --DiamondRemley39 (talk) 21:09, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
- User-supplied content on that site is no more reliable for confirming dates than is IMDb. Unless there is specific evidence that the BFI source is incorrect, that would be the best choice. The fact that something is a template doesn't automatically make its inclusion appropriate - see WP:FINDAGRAVE-EL. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:23, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for providing the link. #6 on that list is what the link offers the article. This is quite relevant as an external link. Per #6: "Find a Grave contains dates of birth, death and place of burial, material which is frequently not cited by other sources in an article (even though it is in theory available from other sources). Since it's not a reliable source, it should not be cited as a source, but having an external link allows others to find where information comes from. Such material is rarely controversial." I guess this is one of those rare times. The cemetery is not listed elsewhere. BFI gives no sources for its dates and it is no better than IMDb--its probably worse because it doesn't have publicity listings (potential sources); it's having 2 different types of records (one film and ostensibly based on vital records like the Social Security Death Index; one cemetery and based on either grave markers or cemetery records) that is needed, especially in the absence of an obituary. IMDb and BFI are often wrong about dates. This is why multiple proofs are better. It also shows which name she was buried under. It's hard enough to research women. Why obscure Lorraine Bridges Ceeley further by censoring her place of burial from the article? DiamondRemley39 (talk) 21:45, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
- The cemetery and name under which she is buried is provided by the cemetery website. Dates can be confirmed from other primary sources, such as the California Death Index. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:46, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
- I saved the FL search result URL in the Wayback machine and added it to the article, thank you. That is the best compromise at this point, though if a marker photo is ever added to Find a Grave, that won't necessarily be the case. Regarding the others suggestion: Ancestry is behind a paywall; death indices are so often incorrect with dates and are where IMDb typically gets its dates for people of lower profiles like Bridges, so that offers little benefit to the casual reader. DiamondRemley39 (talk) 10:58, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
- The cemetery and name under which she is buried is provided by the cemetery website. Dates can be confirmed from other primary sources, such as the California Death Index. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:46, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for providing the link. #6 on that list is what the link offers the article. This is quite relevant as an external link. Per #6: "Find a Grave contains dates of birth, death and place of burial, material which is frequently not cited by other sources in an article (even though it is in theory available from other sources). Since it's not a reliable source, it should not be cited as a source, but having an external link allows others to find where information comes from. Such material is rarely controversial." I guess this is one of those rare times. The cemetery is not listed elsewhere. BFI gives no sources for its dates and it is no better than IMDb--its probably worse because it doesn't have publicity listings (potential sources); it's having 2 different types of records (one film and ostensibly based on vital records like the Social Security Death Index; one cemetery and based on either grave markers or cemetery records) that is needed, especially in the absence of an obituary. IMDb and BFI are often wrong about dates. This is why multiple proofs are better. It also shows which name she was buried under. It's hard enough to research women. Why obscure Lorraine Bridges Ceeley further by censoring her place of burial from the article? DiamondRemley39 (talk) 21:45, 15 October 2020 (UTC)