Talk:Lolita Lebrón/Archive 1

Archive 1

Old untitled thread

The article regarding Lolita Lebron contains incredible factual errors. An effort should be made to set the record straight. See my notes below the article.

The article is a mini-bio about Lolita and is focused only on the attack in which she was involved and not on the attack of the Blair House. You can contribute by writing an article on the Blair House attack if you wish. User:Marine 69-71

The article distorts some of the facts; it begins by saying that the attack on Congress and the Blair House were jointly planned, and then seems to intimate that the attack was not meant to kill anybody. The problem with such statements -for example, Ms Lebron's statement that she did not mean to kill anybody- is that someone died in the Blair House attack and others nearly died in the Congress attack. Four persons were shot; to me this is evidence that they meant to shoot people. The shots were fired down into the assembled congressmen. Ms. Lebron was convicted of attempted murder, in addition to other charges, despite her conviction that this was a military action. Finally, the book by Lolita Lebron's granddaughter about her family recieved critical acclaim nationwide (see review in New York Times or in http://newtimes.rway.com/1996/101696/cover.htm). It surely deserves more attention than a proposed movie.

The statement that they "rose to their feet in applause" is propagandistic. Invited speakers are commonly applauded, it is as unimportant to state that as to say that people were quiet during her speech. I also think her statement is not borne by the facts of the event, but let that be. Written by someone with interest in the events.

Copyright Violation

It looks like somebody copied and pasted this whole site from http://www.answers.com/topic/lolita-lebron, and it appears that that text had been previosuly copyrighted, thus, I decided to revert the edit. If this was a wrong move, please contact me, User:Dbraceyrules and tell me on my talk page. I very sorry if this caused you any problems. Dbraceyrules 23:08, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, there was no copyvio, my mistake...

Dbraceyrules 23:11, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Prison Sentence?

The section on the shooting ends by saying her sentence was life in prison. The later sections assume she is released, married, etc. More info is needed on her release date and reason.

74.72.219.218 (talk) 01:59, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Answer

Don't try to convert this into a controversial issue, O.K? First of all, nowhere is it stated that they had no intention to kill. If you read carefully you will see that Lolita was the one that made the statement on her own behave and this has been quoted in the newspapers of the time. Second of all, the article is focused on "Lolita Lebron" and her participation on the attack of the House of Representatives and not on the attack on the Blair House, in which a police officer was killed along with Torregsola and which is a different subject altogether. The statement about people rising to their feet for Lolita was quoted in "El Vocero" and stands as a fact. Finally, the article is about Lolita and not about the experiences of her granddaughter. However, I will keep in the article what was written about Vilar.

User:Marine 69-71

Another factual error, I believe, is that neither Lolita Lebrón nor Rafael Cancel Miranda, Andrés Figueroa Cordero, Irvin Flores as well as Oscar Collazo were 'pardoned" by President Carter. Carter commuted their sentences, which is not the same as a pardon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrivera64 (talk • contribs) 21:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

• Good question Jrivera64. I did some checking and this is what I found:

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

Commute: To exchange; to put or substitute something else in place of, as a smaller penalty, obligation, or payment, for a greater, or a single thing for an aggregate; hence, to lessen; to diminish; as, to commute a sentence of death to one of imprisonment for life; to commute tithes; to commute charges for fares. Ex: "The utmost that could be obtained was that her sentence should be commuted from burning to beheading. --Macaulay." --- That was not the case.

Commute: 1. To obtain or bargain for exemption or substitution; to effect a commutation. There was no bargaining

Now, I went on to see if there were any reliable verifiable sources which state that they were "pardoned" by Pres. Carter and this is what I found:

1. "Lolita Lebron, who in 1979 was pardoned by President Carter for a 1954 shooting attack on the House of Representatives." - [1]

2."After two decades, I still remember the mood of celebration in Puerto Rico when President Jimmy Carter pardoned five jailed Puerto Rican nationalists." Puerto Rico Herald

3. "In 1979, almost 15 years after Albizu’s death, and 25 years after the Nationalist attack on the u.s congress, u.s. president Jimmy Carter extended an unconditional pardon to Lolita and her two remaining comrades Rafael Cancel Miranda and Irving Flores Rodriguez." [2]

4. "All four were imprisoned until they were pardoned in 1979 by President Jimmy Carter." New York Times

When everything points to a "pardon" and you have the newspapers such as the "Puerto Rico Herald" and the "New York Times" which state that they were pardoned, then that is exactly what it was, a "pardon". Thank you for your question, it was really an interesting one. Tony the Marine (talk) 22:22, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

We go with the sources, nevertheless I think this might have something to do with a rumor, which says that the group was released because Cuba exchanged them for American soldiers "imprisoned for spying", but as I said these are rumors, none of the newspapers discussing the events mention this, not even the most recent ones. - Caribbean~H.Q. 02:07, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Good Article nomination

Ok, after the expanding the article with a book and letting it undergo a complete copyedit, its probably time to give this a go. To the reviewer, please note that I used the book to source the information that seemed non-controvertial or was otherwise very hard to source without it. I used reliable newspapers for the attack per se and the information about her continued involvement in politics. Any points presented in a review will be attended by me ASAP, thanks for your time. - Caribbean~H.Q. 01:59, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

May, 2000 incident with Sen. McClintock's family

I researched the incident that was mentioned when Sen. McClintock's mother died and came up with a reliable source, El Nuevo Día, which confirms that Lebrón, in effect erroneously accused the senator's bedridden mother of criminal assault. I did not find any clipping in which she apologizes or offers condolences to the family, which would have obviously been big news, given the notoriety and the political nature of all involved. It creates some doubts as to her contemporary character, but I don't mention that in the edit. Since the source requires subscription, the following is the article's text: NOTICIA: 412120 Querella de Lebrón mar, 23 de mayo de 2000 EL NUEVO DIA / Por: El Nuevo Día EL PRECINTO 262 de Cupey confirmó ayer que investiga una querella de alteración a la paz presentada por la líder nacionalista Lolita Lebrón contra una mujer que la insultó el sábado en la farmacia El Amal, en El Señorial. Según la querella, una mujer, identificada por una empleada de la farmacia como "la mamá del senador Kenneth McClintock, Nívea Hernández" fue la persona que alegadamente insultó a Lebrón, cuando se encontraba en el área de perfumería del citado negocio, explicó el teniente Felipe Fonseca. Aunque no hay dudas de que el incidente ocurrió el sábado a eso del mediodía, Fonseca subrayó que falta por corroborarse la identidad de la persona a la cual se le imputa alterar la paz. Fonseca dijo que tiene conocimiento de que el senador públicamente puso en duda de que su progenitora insultara a Lebrón porque, al presente, su mamá se encuentra enferma y convaleciendo. EL CASO fue referido al agente Orlando Díaz, quien entrevistaría a Lebrón, así como a las empleadas señaladas en la querella y trataría de corroborar la identidad de la persona que agredió verbalmente a la querellante. En la querella 00-1-262-3438, Lebrón indicó que mientras compraba un perfume la denunciada le sonrió y ella intentó saludarla con un abrazo. Según su relato, la dama le cuestionó la razón del abrazo y le dijo que ella no hablaba con asesinas que se escudan detrás de un rosario. #

---

Artículo: 412120 Fecha: mar, 23 de mayo de 2000 Título: Querella de Lebrón

---

Pr4ever (talk) 03:11, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Lolita Lebron

Can anyone add contact information for Ms. Lebron? I am writing a book that touches on her time in prison and would like to write to her. 206.16.14.223 (talk) 17:54, 24 December 2008 (UTC)Richard Lucas rlucas122561@yahoo.com

I'm sorry, but the project's policy doesn't allow the publication of such information, except for personal websites, but I believe Lebrón doesn't have one. For the actual statement please see WP:BLP#Privacy of personal information, regards. - Caribbean~H.Q. 19:15, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

lolita lebron is a terrorist put this article in category terrorists —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.50.85.46 (talk) 19:09, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

72.50.85.46 (talk) 19:15, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

• That would be POV (Point-of-View) which is against Wikipedia policy. The words "Terrorist" and "Patriot" are considered as such because it all depends on the perspective of the reader. For example; George Washington and Simon Bolivar are considered "patriots" by their respective countries, while at the same time Washington was considered a "terrorist" by the British loyalists and Bolivar a "terrorist" by the Spanish loyalists. Which explains why we do not use those terms here. Tony the Marine (talk) 21:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i see the category terrorist in wikipedia 3people are in that category why not one more people?72.50.85.46 (talk) 23:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i write terrorist in lolita lebron page and i not you erase terrorist word from that page i am not a vandal . i want to link the page to category:terrorist i see the page in wikipedia in the page are 3 people if you say that terrorist is point of view erase the terrorist category or you have a double standard thank you now you have my direction you are welcome visit me 72.50.85.46 (talk) 00:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

We can't judge anyone as "terrorist", "homophobic" or any other derogatory distinction by ourselves without violating WP:BLP, that's why Category:Terrorists is non-existent. There are some categories, like those used at Osama Bin Laden, that list people referred to as such by a government organization, but none of those apply here. People are supposed to draw their own conclusion after reading the article. Now, if you go around adding "TERRORISTS" to articles, it is only a matter of time until you get blocked for vandalism. - Caribbean~H.Q. 02:18, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

you are right the category terrorist no exist i confuse with spanish language wikipedia and dont bloke me i see a page of terrorists incidents and lebron is here and i dont make it thank you for answer 72.50.85.46 (talk) 22:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Dispute

How Come all Nationalist Member Articles are being written from a Pro-Statehood Party point of view? (Spacestoned (talk) 06:39, 28 September 2010 (UTC))

Wikipedia is not supposed to represent a particular slant. This article is highly biased, and some of the Puerto Rican Nationalists who seem to be responsible for it even seem to think that the article "belongs to them." Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but no one is entitled to their own facts. Whatever you think about her, Dolores Lebron's reputation is almost entirely a consequence of the violent attack she led on Congress. Today, most journalists would automatically label this as an act of terrorism. In any case, this is NOT a good article at present. It is politically biased, and written in substandard English. What's worse, the political bias of the article does not even represent a majority view of Puerto Ricans; those advocating independence are reliably estimated to comprise less than 5% of the Puerto Rican population, and most of the pro-independence faction is in favor of peaceful methods of pressing their cause. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.101.168.8 (talk) 20:08, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

• Thank you for your concern. Wikipedia articles, especially those whose status is "GA", are sourced with reliable verifiable sources and have been approved by those in the "GA" committee. A biased article would have never been promoted. What you have stated is your personal point-of-view. As stated before Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that relies on reliable verifiable sources and not on speculation nor what we like or do not like. Wikipedia is not a political forum and additions to its articles which do not follow the established Wikipedia rules will be removed. However, the removal of the word "terrorist" or "patriot" from the article is fine in the sense that what some consider an act of terrorism others consider patriotism, and therefore the both terms are POV. Take care. Tony the Marine (talk) 21:07, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

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