Talk:List of people who have gone over Niagara Falls/Archive 1

Archive 1

Unusual?

Anyone think adding Category:Lists of things considered unusual would be appropriate or inappropriate for this article? Either adding it as a see also link or adding it as one of the categories. -- œ^™ 07:12, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Cat

Do we really need the cat listed twice? Jmohler1970 (talk) 07:33, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

The second listing, under "inanimate objects", is actually for the barrel in which the cat travelled. You're welcome to reword it if that gets rid of any ambiguity. matt (talk) 08:21, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Thats nonsense. The objects are already mentioned with the persons. --Eingangskontrolle (talk) 19:48, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Joseph Avery

On July 17, 1853 a man named Joseph Avery was stranded on a log in the middle of the Niagara River just above the falls. He and some other men were on a boat in the river, and there are several theories regarding why they were just above the falls in the boat. The boat was smashed and the other men were swept over, but Avery managed to cling to a rock or log for 18 hours in the rapids just above the falls. Several desperate attempts to save him were unsuccessful, and he finally weakened and was swept over the falls to his death. A photo taken of him in the middle of the river remains one of the earliest examples of American photojournalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrb1980 (talk • contribs) 21:48, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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article name

just a reminder: people are NEVER considered objects. we are the observer, always, and other things can be objects. animals are marginally considered objects, but never people. Mercurywoodrose (talk) 04:37, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

I agree. The main focus of this article is people. There is only one example of animals going over without a human, two ships, and a magic act. I say we just list humans and delete everything else. Bkatcher (talk) 16:38, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

You'll see I've moved the article to a more appropriate name and rejigged the article. I'll archive the removed content so we can easily re-add anything if necessary. MIDI (talk) 09:55, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! Bkatcher (talk) 12:49, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Inclusion

The intro says over 5,000 people have died going over the falls, and between 20 and 40 people go over each year. So why are random suicides listed? I think this article should include only incidents of historical or unusual import. Bkatcher (talk) 16:32, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps we ought to decide on what would qualify for inclusion. I suggest the following two simple criteria, with anything outside of this being discussed on a case-by-case basis:

1. Individuals surviving going over the falls are generally worthy of inclusion—survival is a very small percentage of those who go over the falls, therefore instances of survival are likely to have multiple WP:RSs
2. Unnamed individuals fatally injured over the falls are not generally worthy of inclusion.

Thoughts? MIDI (talk) 18:43, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Content removed from article

• Fish regularly swim down the falls. The rapids upstream are rich in nutrients which draw fish in, and the currents can disorient them sufficiently to cause them to go over the falls. More fish survive the fall over Horseshoe Falls than the American Falls, due to the latter's talus. At one point, a tourist was grazed at the Cave of the Winds when a salmon was swept over the falls and hit him.
• Instances of waterfowl being swept over the falls have been recorded, particularly when disoriented in foggy weather.
• In 1827, William Forsyth, a hotel owner, bought a schooner called Michigan. He filled it with a buffalo, two small bears, two raccoons, and a dog. Some reports say two foxes, fifteen geese, and an eagle were also included. After the schooner was sent adrift, the two bears jumped free and swam to Goat Island. The rest of the animals, with the exception of the geese, perished going over the Falls.
• On October 19 or 22, 1901, a cat named Lagara (or Iagara) was sent over the falls in a barrel and survived; the trip was just days before Annie Edson Taylor's attempt and was a test of the barrel's strength.
• On July 5, 1930, a turtle named Sonny went over the falls in a barrel with its owner, George Stathakis. The massive barrel survived the fall, but became trapped beneath the falls for hours. Stathakis suffocated and died, but the turtle, believed to be around 150 years old, survived.

George Tattersall's The Destruction of the Caroline (c. 1837), a depiction of the Caroline aflame before going over the falls

• 1829 – On November 23, a schooner named the Superior went over the falls. It was a deliberate event that was originally scheduled to coincide with Sam Patch's stunt, but the ship was caught in the falls' whirlpools and rested on rocks in shallow water for a month until stronger currents took it over the falls.
• 1837 – On December 29, the steamer Caroline was set alight and sent over the falls during the Upper Canada Rebellion. The events were part of the Caroline affair.
• 1990 – In the March 30, 1990 television special The Magic of David Copperfield XII: The Niagara Falls Challenge, an enclosed raft supposedly containing illusionist David Copperfield was shown going over the falls. Moments later, Copperfield was seen rising triumphantly over the lip of the falls suspended from a helicopter. As is customary among professional magicians, Copperfield has not revealed the mechanics behind the illusion.

Above content removed from article as part of restructure to human-focused scope. MIDI (talk) 09:56, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

References

More removed entries

Fred Dean

I cannot verify the Fred Dean entry. Little can be found on Google (at least that I can be certain isn't some sort of WP:CIRCULAR) so it would be great if someone could access the reference to WP:V. Even then, the entry is borderline worthy of inclusion... MIDI (talk) 09:04, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Removed content

Date	Individual	Fate	Falls	Circumstances
May 2, 1923	Fred Dean	Fatality	American Falls	Dean, a worker at the Rosli Hotel in Niagara Falls, Ontario, committed suicide by leaping into the water from Prospect Point. He left behind his hat and a note.

Unknown body (possibly Victor Freiman)

This body was found "in the river below the falls", according to the source used. It would be inappropriate to assume the deceased went over the falls when a number of other circumstances could have led to their body being in the water beneath the falls. MIDI (talk) 12:23, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Removed content

Date	Individual	Fate	Falls	Circumstances
July 28, 1892	Undetermined	Fatality	Undetermined	A body was recovered from the river below the falls on July 29; the Pittsburgh Dispatch reported that the death was the result of suicide. Authorities and witnesses identified the body as that of Victor Freiman, a German officer. Although a key found on the corpse opened Freiman's trunk, a man named Joseph Ott claimed that the body was that of his missing brother; a signet ring found in the corpse's pocket bore the letter "O". On reporting this contradictory identification, the Pittsburgh Dispatch hypothesised that "the body of Freiman is probably in the river."

Notes

References