Talk:List of defunct NFL franchises

merge the lot

I have not seen a single article on a defunct team that should be an article. I think it would make more sense to move all text here. If it ever happens that a team's paragraph gets big, then it might be moved to a separate article. --MarSch 14:50, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• I am more hesitant to do that now after I listed the season-by-season records on each team's article. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 22:54, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • yeah, I can see that won't fit. --MarSch 01:03, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Cleveland Browns

Readding Cleveland Browns as the team was effectively defunct for that time period. --Duemellon 20:57, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

The Browns are considered by the league to have "suspended operations" in 1997-98, not "defunct". See Talk:Baltimore Ravens. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 05:12, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Also note that this article says, "Note that the purpose of the list is for NFL teams that no longer exist" (emphasis added). Zzyzx11 (Talk) 05:16, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

If they labelled them "suspended operations" then it's fine. The "no longer exist" tag, however, isn't necessarily clear when considering some of the franchises closing in the 50's. The Colts didn't really end, they moved cities. Why aren't the LA, err... Oakland... err... LA... err... Oakland Raiders put in that category? The Texans are back, in a different city, based on the same previous entity. So, I'm not arguing to keep Cleveland, but now wondering why those are/aren't considered "defunct"? --Duemellon 10:24, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The Colts that are on this page are not the same franchise that Johnny U played for. The Raiders are not a defunct team. a defunct team means a franchise that no longer plays anywhere not just in the same city. The Oilers are now the Titans. The Houston Texans are not related to either the 1952 Dallas Texans or the 1960s AFL Dallas Texans except for the same nickname. see also NFL franchise moves and mergers

Smith03 15:46, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

What makes it a defunct team? Continuity in what manner? Ownership? Uniforms? City? Nickname? continual seasons of play? Is it the shared historical data? The "defunct" label seems a bit unclear in those regards. Could you (whoever) clarify it in this article? --Duemellon 16:02, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Re-issuing the request: Please define "defunct" teams & why one is defunct while others aren't? --Duemellon 12:45, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

A defunct team means a franchise that no longer plays anywhere not just in the same city as they started out in. The Browns were not a defunct team because the NFL inactivated the franchise for 3 season while a new stadium was being built. The team (players) became part of a new franchise (Ravens). A defunct franchise is one that fails and the there are no plans to bring back the franchise. The Browns were not the first franchise to be inactive in the NFL. During World War 2 the Cleveland Rams were inactive for the 1943 season due to lack of players the Eagles and Steelers merged teams and the Cardinals and Steelers merged in 1944 for a season so those franchises were also inactive during those years. Again the Baltimore Colts team on this page is not the same team that started in 1953. The Colts that are on this page was a team from the AAFC that joined the NFL in 1950 after the 1950 season the team was sold back to the NFL by it owner therefor it became defunct the current Colts franchise/team started in 1953 after a new owner bought the rights to the defunct Dallas Texans (1952) franchise. The reason the Texans are not Colts is because the owner of the team in Dallas sold the franchise back to the NFL during the 1952 season. The league than folded the franchise after the season. The league sold the Texans spot to a group in Baltimore hence the new Colts in 1953. The Colts than moved to Indianapolis in 84 but it the same franchise just a new town. The Raiders have played every season since 1960 just because a team moves to a new town does not mean a team is defunct. The Oakland/LA/Oakland Raiders are the same franchise. A team because defunct when the ownership sales the team back to the league and the league than cancels the franchise (what happen to 1952 Texans). You may want to check out Pro Football Research Association they have many free articles that explain very well and different franchises. Also there is a difference between the terms franchise and team. A franchise becomes defunct (although most people myself included use the terms interchangeable). The franchise is the legal entity that entitles a person the right to own operate a team. If the franchise right is revoke or surrender the franchise is folded. Again in the case of the Browns the league did not revoke the franchise they held the franchise in trust until a new owner was chosen (actually a new stadium was built). Again look at PFRA for more info on the topic. But this list reflects what the NFL considers to be defunct. Smith03 16:53, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

In an attempt to simplify what you are saying (as that's a whole heap of unsegmented sentences), if the team had given the rights to the team back to the league, it was defunct for that period of time. Is that the credentials for a defunct team? --Duemellon 11:58, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

First you are welcome for my attempt to answer your question. secondly yeah that is a nice way to boii it down. If the franchise was returned to the league it becomes defunct, However the NFL held the Browns frachise in trust until a new owner was found, kind of like how baseball owned the Expos/Nationals only in case of the Browns no team took the field. Just curious why did you wait 8 months to reply to question that you had asked in the first place? Smith03 14:17, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Why wait so long? It's just that some things aren't really that important. I do suggest you include that definition, in clear terms, in this article. "Defunct" is a general term & could be interpretted many ways without that point of clarificaiton --Duemellon 17:32, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

It seemed important enough to you back in Sept and Oct that you "Re-issued the request". Also you are welcome to edit the article to include that defintion. I do tend to write alot of unsegmented sentences Smith03 18:10, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Frankford

I am removing Frankford Yellow Jackets because they moved to become the Eagles. --Alien joe (talk) 23:19, 4 December 2007 (UTC) The Houston Oilers are the same franchise as the Tennessee Titans —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.125.4 (talk) 06:36, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

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Move discussion in progress

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