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Talk:List of cities proper by population

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KarachiEdit

Why is it ranked #4 but has a higher population than 1-3? --Golbez (talk) 21:42, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Aha; someone had changed it to a non-source. However, they have a point - Wikipedia marks it as 27 million on its article, and this discrepancy must be resolved. --Golbez (talk) 21:45, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
Nobody has any clue what the population is. Anyone putting it at 27 million as the article suggests is due to some kind of "pride" in making it the largest city by population in the world. To be serious, 9,802,134 was the population at the last official census in 1998 (!). Forbes places it around 20 million. There is a census going on now though that should solve this question. Mattximus (talk) 23:27, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

PakistanEdit

For information on Pakistani cities, see [1] “TABLE - 1: PROVISIONAL PROVINCE WISE POPULATION BY SEX AND RURAL/URBAN”; Pakistan just released the results of its 2017 census. Karachi Division (which I think should be called the “city proper”), Sindh is listed as having 16,051,521 people. Lahore District (again, I suppose we can consider it to be the “city proper”), Lahore Division, Punjab, has 11,126,285 people. Faisalabad District, Faisalabad Division, Punjab, has 7,873,910 people; but I am not sure the entire district, with an area of 5,936.76 km2[1], should be considered a “city proper”; is it dense enuf? Peshawar District, Peshawar Division, Khyber, has 4,269,079 people (on 1,517.5 km2[2]); I'd count that as a city proper.

This article needs alot of cleaning up; fixing the situation regarding Pakistani cities is just a start.--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 01:45, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

One more thing. [2] “TABLE - 1: PROVISIONAL PROVINCE WISE POPULATION BY SEX AND RURAL/URBAN”, lists, on the last page, “FAISALABAD M.CORP.” [Metropolitan Corporation] as having 3,203,846 people, tho' it doesn't specify the surface area.--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 01:52, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
  1. ^ "PAKISTAN: Administrative Division". www.citypopulation.de. Retrieved 4 September 2017. 
  2. ^ "PAKISTAN: Administrative Division". www.citypopulation.de. Retrieved 4 September 2017. 
  • It's pretty clear that [3] is the source for city proper populations. The link you give is not for city proper, but for districts which perhaps equivalent to metropolitan region or urban area? Both of those are different lists. Also, please do not use citypopulation.de when actual census numbers are available from the census bureau of Pakistan. Mattximus (talk) 13:20, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
  • I just noticed that you said "is it dense enough" to be considered city proper. However the definition of city proper is administrative borders, regardless of the population density. You may be thinking of the "urban area" definition for city. Mattximus (talk) 13:22, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
In this case, some of the district figure would have to be considered city propers by the definition of this page, particularly if we're going to count all of China's cities the way we do. I mean, Karachi is fairly similar to many Chinese cities in that its borders include swatchs of uninhabited or very rural land. The only way we'd not include urbanized districts as city propers is if the metropolitan/municipal corporations are below the district level. In the case of Karachi, this isn't the case, the city is governed from the district level and would thus be the city proper. However, in the case of Faisalabad, it sounds like there is Faisalabad local government below the district level, in which case that would be the city proper. It seems, however, that we don't have an area figure for the Faisalabad Metropolitan Corporation. --Criticalthinker (talk) 22:22, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
That's interesting, do you have a source for that? I'm not familiar with how Karachi is organized. It seems strange the census bureau would release a "city population of Karachi" number and it not be correct. It appears to be close to the district population, where is the difference? And no unfortunately we only treat some cities in China this way, Beijing yes, but not Harbin for example. It's an inconsistency that's rather annoying. Mattximus (talk) 02:11, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
Actually, slight mistake on my part, it seems that Karachi Metropolitan Corporation actually governs at the division level - the level right below province - as opposed to the district level. Karachi is then divided into 6 entities at the district level, which was further divided into 18 towns, which are finally divided into 178 unions councisl. This is all information available of Karachi's and Karachi Division's wiki page. In any case, the prime/supreme level of local government is at the division level, which would have to be the city proper. Any "wrong" population you may be seeing might be an urban area measurement (irrespective of political boundaries), maybe? I have no idea. All I know is that the local Karachi Metropolitan Corporation governs the 3,780 sq km Karachi Division. --Criticalthinker (talk) 03:06, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
Do you have a source for the Karachi Metropolitan Corporation governs the 3,780 sq km Karachi Division? Again it seems strange that the census bureau releases a document on city population, but it's not using city boundaries. Mattximus (talk) 11:07, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
Since I've already done so much, why don't you go do a tiny bit of research? I'm a bit offended by this line of questioning, particularly when it's something that on the city's wiki page and something you could easily go look up. --Criticalthinker (talk) 22:51, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
Why are you offended? I'm genuinely curious where you got that information from, that the district is conterminous with the municipality. We can't use wikipedia itself to source wikipedia! I really don't think you should change the city population (from the actual census) until there is proof that it is not the correct population. Especially when it's in the same list as another city you agree is the correct population. Mattximus (talk) 01:11, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
I had not changed, nor was I about to change, the population figure for Karachi. So, you can stop accusing me of things and take that up with the person who originally posted this issue with Karachi's figures. And, again, if you doubt that the Karachi Metropolitan Corporation is the local government for Karachi Division, that's for you to research if you care enough to. I was laying out the local government structure of the division, nothing more and nothing less. YOU seem to be the one really mixed up in about how it's shown on the page, here. --Criticalthinker (talk) 01:21, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

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Please use official census results whenever possibleEdit

I noticed many refs use random websites like citypopulations.de when there are official census data that would be a better source. Most of the time they are very close, but it's always best to use official sources rather than second or third hand websites. Mattximus (talk) 20:50, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

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