Talk:List of Shakugan no Shana characters

Crimson Lord/Lord of the Crimson Realm

A little bit of clarification is needed when it comes to "Crimson" classifications. Thus far, I see "Lord of the Crimson Realm", "Crimson Lord", and "Crimson Denizen". There's a clear distiction between the last and the first two, but not between the first two themselves. Sort of like "King of the Pirates" versus "Pirate King" - if the two mean the same, use one convention, if they're different, please make the distinction more clear. Terek 07:09, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I know what you are saying, but you'll make note that "Lord of the Crimson Realm" refers to the "Guze no Ō" characters like Alastor which make contracts with humans to become Flame Haze. I'm guessing someone felt that the most powerful Tomogara of the series needed a special title and since they are also from "Guze" (the "Crimson Realm"), the term "Crimson Lord" was coined for them. However, the term "Guze no Tomogara" or "Tomogara" should be enough (which is what I think people are also calling "Crimson Denizens") because the series calls them all "Tomogara," making no distinction between them based on power. The only group of Tomogara who are segregated are the Bal Masqué, which are three extremely powerful Tomogara who work together and have their own organization of sub-Tomogara and their own agenda.

My suggestion would be to label all "Denizen" and "Crimson Lord" markers as "Tomogara." "Denizen" is just a citizen and thus implies a civilian of a realm and not something powerful. Using the Japanese term "Tomogara" (and why not since so many others are being used) carries no such baggage, reduces the confusion you cite, and is what they are all called anyway. -AstroNerdBoy (talk) 16:29, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

But "denizen" is the official translation. In this case, "crimson denizen" is a term referring to the entities existing in the Crimson Realm, equivalent to "human" in this world, regardless of the power of the entity. Rexas (talk) 20:55, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Addition of the fansubbed variations of names

With a lot of the Flame Hazes, etc, the names from fansubs are different from those on the page. I believe that these names should have a mention here, despite being unofficial names, as they are probably the names that quite a number of people know them by. Something like "also known as {fansubbed name}" or something somewhere in the related section. I'd add them in myself, but wanted to know what others think first. --nyoro~! Highwind888 (talk) 01:16, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe Wikipedia should start catering to different spellings just because they might be more prevalent in the fan community. If we did that, wouldn't we be condoning fansubs?--十八 01:27, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

True. Guess I'll leave it at that then. It's just I haven't been able to find a source for the official names; Are they in the official light novels? I've read the official manga, but only a little of the novels. --nyoro~! Highwind888 (talk) 01:34, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

In the end, those titles will be translated differently by different groups, so there's bound to be discrepancies even among fans. I think the ones currently given at least give a direct translation, though I'm sure the novels have them translated; now to just find someone who has bought volume 1 in English.--十八 02:01, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

There may be one or two volumes (not necessarily volume 1) in a bookstore near me, so I'll go have a look and put up official names if I find one. --nyoro~! Highwind888 (talk) 02:16, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Wirhelmina

Recently I went and browsed through an anime store here in Aus, and found that Geneon had translated Wilhelmina's name as Wirhelmina... OMG, terrible. I totally disagree with this, but since it's official, I have edited the page... Gao T-T. --nyoro~! Highwind888 (talk) 01:30, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

You realize that the 'L' and 'R' in Japanese are interchangable, right? Either Wirhelmina or Wilhelmina is an accurate translation.71.242.95.86 (talk) 01:59, 2 August 2008 (UTC)MegaZilla

You are absolutely correct in that both r and l are feasible translations - but in Wikipedia, we take the OFFICIAL translation; i.e. in this case, the Geneon translation. If they say it's an r, then we have to put it as an r, regardless of what the fans think it should be. Similar to Power of Unrestraint, which is the official translation; not unrestricted method. The main problem I have is that "Wilhelmina" is an actual name, whereas "Wirhelmina" is not. -- Highwind888, the Fuko Master (talk) 02:09, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Uh, I'm aware of Wikipedia taking only the official names. I was voicing this in response to your obvious complaint about the translation of her name. And your rather conflicting usage of the "official". Are you trying to imply (in your opinion) that the fan-translated or fansubbed are more accurate?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.242.95.198 (talk • contribs)

Read the last line of my reply: The main problem I have is that "Wilhelmina" is an actual name, whereas "Wirhelmina" is not. It has nothing to do with fansubs. I don't think I need to emphasise my point any further. -- Highwind888, the Fuko Master (talk) 09:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Why is Geneon's Engrish considered to be the highest authority in this anyway? In Viz's manga, it's "Wilhelmina", isn't that just as official? Though the light novel translation was discontinued, they probably would've used "Wilhelmina" as well, since it was also Viz's project. Rexas (talk) 19:46, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

The reason would simply be that the translation from the anime came first; however I'm not sure if there is a guideline regarding this, and if there is, whether we should ignore it for the sake of logic. I'm happy to change it all to Wilhelmina (i.e. Viz translation over the Geneon translation) if that's what others want as well. -- Highwind888, the Fuko Master (talk) 05:10, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I completely agree on Wilhelmina. The fact that Wilhelmina is a name ( http://www.behindthename.com/name/wilhelmina ), while Wirhelmina is not, backed up by that fact that Viz, who's translation is just as official as Geneon's, uses the first spelling, makes it the more logical choice. I don't think it matters which translation came first in this case. Unless there is any reason to believe that the author uses existing names and spells them differently on purpose (see D Gray Man), I agree to change it back and simply mention Geneon's different spelling at the beginning of her character description. After all there are already other series where a character's name has been spelt differently in the different releases abroad. Minikui (talk) 14:08, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Wirhelmina is a name, Wilhelmina is born from Wilhelm who's also born from William. A ton of derivation has been made with "William" whose "Wiremu". Wirhelmina has been translated this way cause "Wiremu" is a maori's word (new zeland), Wirhelmina is just a combinaison of Wilhelm and Wiremu. imo They did it this way cause New Zealand & Germany are totally opposed geographicly, Wirhelmina is a great traveller, so it totally sweet to him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.111.49.133 (talk) 18:02, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Meh. It's gonna be a bit of a pain, but I'll change them all and put the note in. -- Highwind888, the Fuko Master (talk) 02:18, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Done. Actually, only two pages mentions Wilhelmina, so it wasn't bad at all. -- Highwind888, the Fuko Master (talk) 02:27, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Jargon

I am part of a translation team on SnS, thus I read the Japanese version of the novel. I would like to alert you to the fact that though the Japanese term for "Appointed Couple" is 約束の二人, it's ruby is エンゲージ・リング (engeeji ringu), which means 'Engage Ring'. The official translated version by Viz is 'Promised Duo', but shouldn't we follow the original, Japanese text?

Besides that, pertaining to 'Ane-san', how sure are you that the term means 'respectable elder sister'? I have asked around, and the answer I got is that 'Ane-san' means that the relationship between (Satō and Tanaka) and Margery is something like yakuza mistress and henchmen. It is a variant of Aneki. Can you confirm on this matter? --129.31.70.140 (talk) 17:57, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by "it's ruby is". The issue is that the VIZ translation is official; no matter how close the original Japanese text is to some English text (as it clearly is here), it is merely what we feel the translation should be, and not official. Thus, we need to keep with the official translation, no matter how different it may be to the original. As for "Ane-san", I'm really not sure the source of this. To my knowledge, it is as you say, but I have no sources to back either meaning. I guess we'll let those with more knowledge of Japanese to comment. -- Highwind⁸₈⁸, the Fuko Master 04:27, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

'Ruby' as in 'ruby text' as in furigana as in 'hiragana phonetic assistance. Those words are to take as the pronunciation of the word. For example, in this case, the kanji is yakusoku no futari, but the furigana is engeeji ringu, which would be translated into English as 'Engage Ring', regardless of what the kanji might mean. So if we are talking about accuracy according to the original Japanese novel, Engage Ring has to be used. ;) And about 'Ane-san', I am quite sure of it, since I've asked from several people. The response I got is the yakuza relationship. You can read the discussion for more information.

--129.31.70.140 (talk) 18:04, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I see. Learn something new everyday! :D Thanks. Still not sure on what to do about which of the translations to use. I'm still inclined to leave it as the Viz translation, because those who purchase manga in Western countries won't know about 'Engage Ring'. It is only those who have the original Japanese version that would know of this term. I am also curious to find out how it is translated in the anime... Was it mentioned in the first season or only the second? If they use 'engage ring' in the anime, then we can definitely have it changed, similar to 'Wilhelmina' above. The discussion isn't too conclusive about that term, as only two posters have mentioned this. Is there a better source? It's not that I doubt it, it would be better to have it properly sourced. Something like a dictionary website or something maybe? -- Highwind⁸₈⁸, the Fuko Master 07:22, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's up to you people to decide. It's just a suggestion anyway. And yeah, it's not conclusive enough. Maybe you would need to refer to other sources...... XD --129.31.70.140 (talk) 16:55, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

On the topic of jargons. 弔詞 as in 弔詞の読み手 is an Eulogy not an Elegy. They're very different things. 195.80.235.190 (talk) 05:43, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Images

I miss all the helpful character images. It is a shame that Wikipedia and the wiki gods find them evil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.205.252 (talk) 05:12, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Individual images fail WP:FUC, though a few group images are permitted, if some can be procured.--十八 06:56, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Silver the Second

The article used to have Yuji's title as "Silver the Second", but that was removed a while ago. Problem is, parts of the article still use it. Is this title only in the light novels or is it even his title? Aassdddai (talk) 11:53, 2 March 2013 (UTC)