Talk:List of Royal Navy flag officers who died during the First World War

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 09:06, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

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Sir Robert Arbuthnot, Sir Christopher Cradock and Sir Horace Hood

• ... that of the ten Royal Navy flag officers to die during the First World War, three (pictured) were killed in action? Source: "three officers of camparative naval rank were killed in action. These were Rear-admiral Sir Christopher Crafdock, in command of HMS Good Hope at the Battle of Coronel on 1 November 1914 and the two mentioed by LLoyd George - Rear-Admiral Sir Robert Arbuthnot in command of HMS Defence and Rear-Admiral Horace Hood in command of HMS Invincible, both of whom were killed at the Battle of Jutland on 31 May 1916" from: Davis, Frank; Maddocks, Graham (1995). Bloody Red Tabs - General Officer Casualties of the Great War, 1914-1918. London: Leo Cooper. pp. 14–15.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Segun Olubi

Moved to mainspace by Dumelow (talk) and Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk). Nominated by Dumelow (talk) at 09:11, 3 January 2023 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Dumelow: Good Article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 21:58, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Issues

There are some errors and inconsistencies here.

• Warrender was placed on the retired list on 6 December 1916 so he didn't die "while serving during the First World War". I think I'll have to write to the CWGC about this one.
• "The CWGC list these officers at their full, pre-retirement rank, even where they died whilst serving in the lower RNR rank." Grogan and Henderson both retired as Captains and were advanced to Rear-Admiral on the Retired List.
• Given how specific the Navy was about the definition of "Flag Officer", it seems stretching things to the point of WP:OR to count Engineer Rear-Admirals as Flag Officers. The exact same definition, confining "Flag Officer" and "Flag Rank" to Rear-Admiral, Vice-Admiral, Admiral and Admiral of the Fleet, can be found in the 1943 King's Regulations and Admiralty Instructions, Vol. I, p. 66.
• Herbert Lyon served as a Captain RNR from 1914 and as a Commodore Second Class RNR from 1916. Frank Finnis was a Commodore, Second Class RNR from 1917.

—Simon Harley (Talk). 18:05, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Simon Harley: Hi, nice to have a topic expert drop by! Not sure we can do anything about Warrender until the CWGC do. I've removed "pre-retirement", which leaves the slightly awkward "full rank" phrase but I'm not sure what would be better. I wasn't aware of the particular way in which the RN defines flag officers; do you think changing the article to "List of Royal Navy admirals who..." would be an improvement? If you've got sources for Lyon and Finnis I'd be happy to change the information there, or feel free to do it yourself. Thanks again for having a look at this! Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 18:58, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Simon Harley: Hi, did you have any more input on this? Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 16:36, 17 July 2023 (UTC)