Talk:List of NFL retired numbers

Seahawks #12

The Seattle Seahawks have retired the number 12 as an honor to their fans, often called the 12th Man. That should be listed here, even without a specific player being associated with that number. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.30.147.14 (talk) 06:22, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Seahawks #12 was at one time in this list; I don't know when it was removed or why. But if it is restored to this list, there will have to be a couple of changes:

(1) The lead sentence (Teams in the National Football League retire jersey numbers of players who ...) will need to be changed

(2) the article name will need to be changed.

Arguably, Seahawks #12 was not 'retired' in the sense that word is commonly understood. Overall, I don't think that it is such a good idea to include Seahawks #12 in the list. However, it may be appropriate to include a sentence about it at some point in the article, maybe in the last paragraph in the lead. YBG (talk) 03:57, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

References

nfl.com is now referenced; info not found there is marked {{Citation needed|date=October 2009}}, so I've removed the {{Unreferenced|date=September 2008}} tag. YBG (talk) 08:17, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

The references marked <ref name=NFL> were originally from a page on the nfl.com website which has now disappeared. At some point, the URL was changed to point to about.com, which I'm not sure is considered reliable. In any event, I am rectifying differences between that list and the WP page as follows:

• Add reference for Rams 28(Faulk)
• Delete ref, add: Saints 51(Mills) & 57(Jackson), Seahawks 71(Jones), Steelers 75(Greene), Eagles 5(McNabb), Bears 89(Ditka), Lions 20(Sanders)

YBG (talk) 03:01, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

• Also added 4 Atlanta numbers (57 VanNote, 10 Bartowski, 60 Nobis, 31 Andrews) which are listed in the reference despite the fact that the lead says that the Falcons traditionally do not retire jersey numbers. YBG (talk) 03:34, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Years or seasons

Is the new column the years played or the seasons played? That is, 1981-1985 could mean 4 seasons ending with the superbowl in 1985 or 5 seasons with or without post-season appearance in 1986. I suspect it means the latter, in which case it would be better to change to column title. But to completely disambiguate the matter, it might be good to add the total number of seasons, either in the same column "5 (1981-85)" or in separate columns "Seasons|Years played with team" or "Seasons played with team|Total". A combined column would require care (e.g., using {{nts}}) to make sorting work correctly. Separate columns would enable sorting either by total years played or by the first year played. YBG (talk) 15:29, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit Request

Can somebody create the nomination page for me? Reason: I recently added citations and added pictures, and now think that it is worthy of being a featured list. --71.126.8.99 (talk) 23:09, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

@71.126.8.99  Done

Falcons

the intro states they don't retire numbers yet they are in the list with numbers retired — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.127.32.116 (talk) 21:21, 27 November 2015 (UTC) Coming to write the same thing nearly 3 years later.............so which is it does anyone know? 97.127.71.183 (talk) 02:36, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

External links modified

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Tom Brady

Tom Brady's jersey number has yet to be retired on the Patriots. No one currently uses the number and the general assumption is that it will be retired in May 2024. The number is still available for players to grab, but no one uses it. Abram Nason (talk) 14:29, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

An assumption of a number being retired is not the same as a number officially being retired. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Atlanta Falcons numbers

@Ringerfan23: I wanted to bring your attention to the Atlanta Falcons's Ring of Honor section of their website, found here. It states "The Atlanta Falcons organization doesn't officially retire jersey numbers, but considers certain player's jerseys worthy of being honored. The Falcons Ring of Honor honors individual players and not jerseys." As such, it frankly doesn't matter what sources like ESPN say. A number may not be re-issued, but that's not the same as a number being retired. This is for numbers that have officially been retired. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:32, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

ESPN source is directly quoting the team. Multiple reliable third party sources list the numbers they retire. It could be an old thing they haven’t updated their website, the Falcons themselves are a contradictory source. I’ve looked into this some more and it’s all over the place, some say they don’t retire numbers, some say they do, some say they haven’t, some say they’ve only retired one or two numbers. Most more recent sources list the numbers they retire though, WP:CONFLICTING says to prefer recent sources and include all the information, so something like “The Falcon’s website says the team does not retire numbers, but they honor certain jerseys, however the team has also publicly retired several numbers.” Or something to that effect. RF23 (talk) 00:18, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

And it does matter what ESPN says, as they are a reliable third party source. WP:CONFLICTING specifically says “Do not choose which one is "true" and discard the others as incorrect.” when there are multiple reliable sources. RF23 (talk) 00:21, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ringerfan23: Please be specific in your sources because upon review I'm not seeing any quotes directly from the team indicating that the numbers are retired and not just honoured. Additionally, it doesn't really matter whether third party sources state that a number is retired if the team themselves state they do not retire them. Hey man im josh (talk) 00:25, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

ESPN: According to the team, six players have had their jerseys retired (note the ‘’according to the team’’), Pro Football Hall of Fame lists retired QB numbers by team and includes Bartkowski’s #10, Sports Illustrated: The Falcons retired his number in 1986 during his final home game of the season, TampaBay.com: Atlanta retired the number of five-time Pro Bowl player Jessie Tuggle during a halftime ceremony that included commissioner Paul Tagliabue, ESPN lists the falcons numbers in their list of every retired number. And like I said WP:CONFLICTING details what to do for conflicting sources. You cannot just say the Falcons website is the “true” one because the Falcons themselves contradict this. RF23 (talk) 02:38, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ringerfan23: My problem is they're not quoting anybody or stating they reached out to the team. They're not saying where this information came from. For all we know it's their interpretation of the Ring of Honor and honoring jerseys. This is why I'm asking for something quoted from an official Falcons source. You need something more reliable to beat out and overwhelm what's listed at the source itself. Some people may be treating numbers that haven't been re-issued as being retired, which is not the same thing.

How can you reasonable say that a number of sources claim the Falcons retire numbers in direct opposition to what the authority on the matter says, and the authority on the matter is wrong? Hey man im josh (talk) 03:06, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Additionally, Pro Football Hall of Fame has been shown to be wrong on a number of occasions. For instance, they list Tom Brady's number as being retired when that's never officially been done. I also believe that Tampa Bay source to be misunderstanding the numbers in the Ring of Honor, exactly as sources have for Tom Brady's number. Hey man im josh (talk) 03:08, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ringerfan23: After some thought, I've started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League#Atlanta Falcons retired numbers. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:34, 27 February 2024 (UTC)