Talk:List of Democrats who opposed the Joe Biden 2024 presidential campaign

List criteria

@Lukt64: thanks for starting this article. I've got some concerns about the inclusion criteria per WP:LISTCRIT though. The title says it's a list of Democrats who oppose Biden's campaign, but the lead section says "This is a list of Democrats, liberals and socialists who...". This doesn't reflect the title, as there are many moderate and conservative Democrats (see Blue Dog Coalition for example), and there are many liberals and socialists in the US who aren't affiliated to the Democratic Party. I suggest we remove people and groups who aren't Democrats from the list, and restate the criteria for inclusion in the lead section. Thanks again, Wikishovel (talk) 05:35, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree, especially since things like a socialist opposing Joe Biden is not notable. MrMeAndMrMe_{Let's talk} 16:51, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and WP:BOLDly amended the lead sentence. The article is a list of Democrats who oppose Biden's campaign. This can include liberal, socialist, moderate and conservative Democrats. Following the events of the past week or two, this list may well grow rapidly, across the political spectrum. Wikishovel (talk) 20:18, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

I think another thing that should be addressed is the criteria to be met to be listed. Barack Obama was recently added to this list. I do not think that is a fair assessment because, as of now, Barack Obama has publicly supported Biden. Should we be including articles who get their information from anonymous sources like this? ZachofMS (talk) 06:58, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. And at some point this list will probably need to get turned into a timeline article. Some of the people listed have opposed Biden's nomination for months, and some have held out for as long as possible. The distinction is important. Wikishovel (talk) 08:17, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I disagree - I think sourcing from perennially reliable sources should merit inclusion:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/schumer-privately-urged-biden-step-aside-2024-election/story?id=112046011 (for Jeffries) Superb Owl (talk) 14:03, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I think we should at least differentiate who has put out a formal statement calling for Biden to drop out versus who has privately called for him to drop out. For the Barack Obama example (my change in bold):

Barack Obama, President of the United States (2009–2017) (privately expressed concerns about Biden's campaign viability) ZachofMS (talk) 23:24, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed Superb Owl (talk) 00:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

@Lukt64:, thanks for starting this again! Based on the discussion (I started) here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Joe_Biden_2024_presidential_campaign, do you think it's time to open up this list to non-Democrats? We could add a "Non-Democrat" section or create a new page altogether. I just want to come to a consensus about this as we need an objective and comprehensive list IMHO. I know the Vote Hub is doing a good job of tracking only Congressional Democrats (https://analysis.votehub.us/pages/biden-campaign-comment-tracker)... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jccali1214 (talk • contribs)

What would the WP:LISTCRIT be for a "Non-Democrats" section in a list article about Democrats? Wikishovel (talk) 06:59, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Include letter?

Do we want to include this letter that Biden sent to congressional Dems stating he doesn’t want to drop out? SDudley (talk) 22:01, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Explanation of each person's position re Biden

Do we really need to put: 'called on him to drop out' etc. next to the name of the person in question. Would it not be better to just use footnotes so that you get: a - called on him to drop out / b - called on him to resign / c - will not vote for Biden / and so on.... Mrodowicz (talk) 09:17, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

I think either option could work, but I think (even if in a footnote) we do need to explain a difference between a protest vote in the primaries and calling for him to drop out in the general as a result of the debate, etc. I think we do have a problem with Rep. Marie Gluesenkamp Perez's source because it does not specifically state that Biden should resign; even if it only hints at it, we should not write that she specifically states he should resign. EPBeatles (talk) 22:52, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

I am open to either option.
I also do not think we should include Trump supporters here - this article should just be about the Democratic Nomination and the debate within the party on who to nominate Superb Owl (talk) 15:42, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Title change suggestions:

This article lists lots of people who support Biden but want a different nominee chosen at the Democratic National Convention and I think the title should clarify that. Here are some ideas:
1) "List of Democrats calling for Joe Biden to not seek a second term"
2) "List of Democrats calling for Joe Biden to suspend 2024 bid for the Democratic Nomination for President" Superb Owl (talk) 19:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Barack Obama is asking Biden to not seek re-election

Deutschlandfunk hast just reported on air that today, even Barack Obama has expressly and publically asked Biden not to seek re-election, "in order to protect Biden's legacy", which according to Obama would be in danger in case Biden will maintain to seek re-election. Source (13:01-15:58, in German). According to Deutschlandfunk quoting THE NEW YORK TIMES in the same report, yesterday Hakeem Jeffries, Chuck Schumer, and Nancy Pelosi have also called upon Biden not to seek re-election. --2003:DA:CF01:8661:6CFD:7EC4:D5EE:E694 (talk) 17:32, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Should this page be seperated?

To conflate individuals who suggest Biden to drop out/concerned about him to those individuals to who oppose Biden as a Democratic nominee into the same group is absurd as most people in the first group are not telling voters not to vote for Biden (most are likely going to support for Biden's reelection bid and vote for Biden even with the reservations).

My suggestion is to remove those who just call for Biden to drop-out (but not encouraging voters to not vote for Biden) and:

1) Place them on a separate page

or

2) Make a notes in List of Joe Biden 2024 presidential campaign primary endorsements for individuals that suggestion Biden to drop-out or concerned but would endorse and Vote for Biden nevertheless Mhaot (talk) 12:20, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

This list grows longer every day. Combining it would serve no purpose. Lukt64 (talk) 15:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree. This list should be separated into an article of Democrats concerned about his age and health, and another one for those Democrats who oppose his politics. --2003:DA:CF01:8602:5438:13D8:2365:3EC7 (talk) 18:54, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

There's an article called Age and health concerns of Joe Biden that already exists. David O. Johnson (talk) 19:00, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, and since the amount of prominent Democrats publically asking him to step down because of his age and health is easily reaching the three-digit range soon if not already, there needs to be a separate list, rather than bloating that main article about his age and health with it. --2003:DA:CF01:8602:5438:13D8:2365:3EC7 (talk) 19:12, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

No, we can simply add one sentence and emphasize these by bolding their names. Killuminator (talk) 13:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Should there be further specification on whether an individual publicly or privately called for Biden to drop out?

Currently both elected officials who have publicly called for Biden to drop out such as Senator Brown and others who are reported to have called for him to privately drop out like Senator Schumer are listed with an "(called on Biden to drop out)" aside. Should this be changed to further specify whether this opposition to his candidacy is publicly supported by the candidate or is merely just reporting on alleged lack of support? LosPajaros (talk) 20:27, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

New Title

This title is clunky. I propose making the new title something to the effect of “Calls to end 2024 Joe Biden Campaign” or just something less LONG AND CLUNKY. IEditPolitics (talk) 13:55, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

There was an Afd about a similarly-titled article that just closed last week (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Calls for Joe Biden to suspend his 2024 United States presidential campaign); the consensus there was to redirect it to Joe_Biden_2024_presidential_campaign#Calls_for_Biden_to_withdraw. If we changed the name of this article, we'd just be in the same position. David O. Johnson (talk) 14:10, 21 July 2024 (UTC)