Talk:La Mer (song)

English Translation

While it's nice to have the original French lyrics, wouldn't also be good to have an English translation, as this is English-language Wikipedia and it would be nice to know what the lyrics mean? And don't direct me to the English-language version of this song, because those lyrics are not a direct translation. 98.221.124.80 (talk) 10:32, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Agree. And done. I'm not entirely sure about the accuracy of the translation I found, so if anyone disagrees please correct it. Using tables to force a 2 column format is a bit iffy, too, but I'm not sure how to do it properly in Wikipedia. Personally I think that the original lyrics are badly spaced, and should be written more like the song is sung. nagualdesign (talk) 23:30, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

The lyrics and their English translation have now been removed presumably because they are still in copyright. Has anyone asked the publishers for permission to put the lyrics here? Mandolamus (talk) 03:03, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Title

I already posted this question to the french-language page for this song (discussion page): Why is this song title "La Mer" and not "Le Mer"? "Mer" in French is masculine, isn't it? - mdcosta --216.58.61.147 03:31, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

No, it's feminine. El mar in Spanish is masculine, if that's any consolation.Strobilomyces 17:41, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

A version recorded by Kevin Kline is featured on the original motion picture soundtrack for French Kiss (film). See French Kiss: Original Motion Picture Soundtrack. HappygirlMagill 03:26, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

La or Le?

If the French word 'Mer' came from Latin Mare, a neuter noun, shouldn't the song have an article along the lines of Le, rather than La? Don't most French people consider Mer to be a masculine noun?

Is there a double entendre, or some kind of hidden significance to the choice of articles used with this noun? 198.177.27.27 (talk) 18:39, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

What a load of utter piffle!!! Where do these idiots come from? Every single authority of French lexicography will tell you that Mer is a feminine noun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.95.15 (talk) 22:16, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

With reference to the first two sentences of the above, as the old saying goes "it takes one to know one". — 188.28.219.36 (talk) 04:11, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

With reference to the same two sentences, should it be "La idiot" or "L'idiot?" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.118.201.46 (talk) 17:47, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

What is the song about?

I came to this page, because I read on the page about the song "beyond the sea" (on wikipedia) that it has the tune from la mer, but is not a translation (ie la mer is about something else... but what?) Thanks, -- JasonWoof (talk) 06:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

It is a poetic evocation of the sights and sounds of the sea and coast; the singer concludes that "the sea has beguiled my heart for life with a song of love" (loose translation!). --mervyn (talk) 14:11, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Debussey

Does this song have any relation to the Debussy song of the same name, from another Frenchman 30 years before? And for the redirects at the top, the NIN song is a cover, or at least inspired by the Debussy, at the very least it should be added as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.112.18.193 (talk) 11:08, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Stilgoe and Skellern reference?

Should mention be made of the use of this song on the Stilgoe and Skellern album A Quiet Night Out? One of them (I think Stilgoe, who probably wrote the lyrics) sang a comic song lamenting the opening of the Channel Tunnel, whilst the other sang this song in counterpoint to it. — 188.28.219.36 (talk) 04:07, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Written in 1943 but published in 1939?

The disambiguation page states that Trenet published the song in 1939. That seems to contradict the text of *this* page, which claims Trenet wrote the lyrics in 1943, and was aided by Chauliac for the tune.

---

it also appears in tailor tinker soldier spy! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.166.27.113 (talk) 08:17, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

References in TV and movies

Why user Donlago delete everytime me information about the fact that the song is present in many parts of the episode "Madeira" of the Derrick (TV series) ? The song is very important in that episode!

Then provide a source establishing such. If that occurrence of the song is significant enough to be included here then a publication should have taken note of it. DonIago (talk) 03:36, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Where is the source the song is used in an epesode of Simpson? If every site, every blog needs a soure, who will be the first speacking of a particular argument? if i am the first one, probably there is not a SOURCE. The soure is that i've seen many times that episode and you can listen for that song many times, not like in the simpson for few seconds. Would you have the link on youtube of the film? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.52.31.58 (talk) 07:42, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

To use an analogy, the question isn't whether the tree fell in the woods, the question is whether anyone heard it. YouTube is insufficient as a source because it doesn't establish the significance of the occurrence of the song. DonIago (talk) 14:30, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Of course, then I can not be the primary source of this news also bringing evidence .. Very intelligent. I used to finance wikipedia every year ... but if the leaders are all democratic and intelligent like you i won't give a single euro anymore.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.52.31.58 (talk) 11:29, 30 September 2015 (UTC) 

To add some information to the discussion. Derrick is a well known crime series in German speaking countries, that also sold well in syndication abroad. However it isn't really not among the well known crimes series in the English speaking world.

So whether to include it or not eems a bit of editorial judgement call with excluding it simply being on the safe side. Personally I think it could be include it a future extension with some more context, but i wouldn't include it in the current form of the article either.--Kmhkmh (talk) 12:41, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

There's an RfC that I believe may be relevant currently in progress here. DonIago (talk) 14:13, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Derrick is a crime series famous in many part of the world. There is a page (a long page with many information) about Derrick also in the english version of wikipedia. In Europe everyone know Derrick, but also in many part of Asia. So reference about Derrick can't be added in the page of the song, but you can insert reference about a version of the song made by Sergio Cammariere??? Cammariere is italian. I'm italian. Derrick is more famous than Cammariere in Italy as in the rest of the world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.52.31.58 (talk) 07:39, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Making a song/single is something different that being used as a soundtrack in one episode of a long running tv show.--Kmhkmh (talk) 11:53, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Sure, but if few people know Cammariere outside Italy (also inside), this is not so important he has done a his version of the song.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.52.31.58 (talk • contribs)

Firstly, please sign your comments by adding four tildes (~) to the end of them going forward, as that way we can more easily tell who's speaking. Secondly, as has been discussed throughout this thread and is in my estimation currently supported at the RfC I linked to, if Derrick's use of the song, or Cammariere's, or anyone else's for that matter, is significant enough for inclusion in this article, then finding a reliable source that has discussed the usage should not be difficult. If it is difficult to find such a source, then to me that indicates that its usage in one episode of a tv show is not ultimately all that significant. Consider that The Simpsons has made thousands of pop culture references and utilized many songs throughout its run...how many of those usages ultimately mattered to anyone beyond the time the episode ran? DonIago (talk) 14:03, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Unsourced material

Article has been tagged for needing sources since 2008. Feel free to reinsert the below material with appropriate references. DonIago (talk) 15:17, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Composition

Trenet wrote the lyrics of "La Mer" on a train in 1943 while travelling along the French Mediterranean coast, returning from Paris to Narbonne. He supposedly wrote the song in ten minutes, on toilet paper supplied by SNCF (National Corporation of French Railways). The music is based on "Heart and Soul", a popular song at the time, with music by Hoagy Carmichael and lyrics by Frank Loesser, published in 1938. He was assisted with the tune by Léo Chauliac. It was originally published by Raoul Breton.

Other versions

The song has been subject to many interpretations in French and in many languages. Dalida and Will Ferdy did covers both in 1976. Daniel Guichard covered it in 1983 and Graham Dalby and The Grahamophones recorded the song on the album Transatlantique in 1993. More recent versions include, Kristina & Laura, Manlio Sgalambro, Lisa del Bo, Biréli Lagrène, Patricia Kaas, Lola Dutronic, and others. Bobby Darin also recorded it as "Beyond the Sea". Instrumental versions were done by Ray Conniff His Orchestra and Chorus, Le Grand Orchestre de Paul Mauriat, Richard Clayderman.

As far as the various cover artists are concerned most if not all can be found at discogs, which was already used as a source and and the second hand songs link under external links as well (one can also easily verify most or even all of them via youtube). However I will ad some additional independent sources later as well. As far as the background info on the composition is concerned, I've seen parts of that in sources but probably not the exact/complete information, so I probably add revised version, reduced to the easily verifiable part.--Kmhkmh (talk) 07:44, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your work on improving the article and for putting in the in-use template while you were working on it. I'm guessing you were done at this point; if not, feel free to re-insert information I removed (with sources) as desired. Thanks again. DonIago (talk) 21:33, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

You guessed wrong, in particular since the posting above suggests clearly suggests otherwise.--Kmhkmh (talk) 05:35, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

The imdb is not a reliable source as such (in particular for biographical information), however you usually can use it for standard movie information such as the filmography, cast or soundtrack. Note that, whether a source is appropriate (and reliable) or not also depends on what it is used for. In the case of the imdb link, it is meant only meant to sources the appearances in some movie soundtracks and providing the (collective) imdb link is much more convenient and easier to verify than directly citing all involved the movies thenselves. Also note that all the newly added sources are not yet sourcing anything, I merely started ti add the references that I plan to compile into the article later on. This also will take some time as I'm still sifting thorough and double checking their content, in addition i have to take a look at related articles like Charles Trenet and Beyond the Sea and the German language versions, which need improved sourcing as well.--Kmhkmh (talk) 09:01, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

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