Talk:Kent Whealy

Primary sources

Primary sources cannot be used in the manner in which they had been to produce controversial content about a living person. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 16:04, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

I began editing this article to fix vandalism, and do not have specific knowledge of the subject or source. I trust your judgement, and you have proven that the source was not reliable. My only further comment is to look at http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/07/food-ark/siebert-text and add relevant information (if any). This is the main source in the Seed Savers Exchange article. JJJ (talk) 16:23, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand how public US tax filings of an organization which list Whealy as a trustee are "primary sources" - In 2010 Whealy became a trustee with the CERES Trust,CERES Trust 2010 Form 990, Guidestar, November 2012. to promotes organic agriculture.Ceres Trust website, CERES Trust - An Organic Research Initiative, November 2012. Whealy and CERES are working with groups like the Pesticide Action Network (PANNA) and Beyond Pesticides to ban agricultural chemicals allegedly linked to Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) and other health and environmental concerns.Kent Whealy Speech to the Land Institute, Big Picture Agriculture, September 26, 2010. - And, the PRIMARY sources for the information about Whealy's activities with CERES and his being fired from his previous position and the reasons for the firing is Whealy - are Whealy. He details this information in a public speech and in a public letter, both of which he posted online and weredistributed throughout the Internet to numerous websites which report on agriculture and food issues. These are not third-party primary sources. And, the factually reported data to the IRS about his role at CERES is a gov't record, not a primary source.CinagroErunam (talk) 14:25, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Treastor (talk) 14:51, 30 November 2012 (UTC) I have removed sensitive financial information from the site of a LIVING Person. This IS public information and it is posted in the appropriate places. But for the wikipedia page it represents the "indiscriminate collection of information" and a thorough disregard for the "subject's privacy". If the administrators here would think this through I think they would realize the harmful impact this posting of sensitive financial information could have on Mr Whealy and his entire family. Furthermore Mr Whealy is listed here because of his work at Seed Savers Exchange, not his political contributions. Someone is trolling through the web to find information to use to harrass Mr Whealy. Why is this being allowed?Treastor (talk) 14:56, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

First, please do not attack other users. No one here is trying to harass Whealy. The amount is not 'sensitive' in any way that I understand the word and I can't see how it is likely to harm him as it is public information. As you were told at BLPN, "And as an encyclopedic and historical overview of Whealy, his participation as the largest contributor to an important political campaign is and will be continually important for readers in understanding who Whealy is and what impacts he has had and made - and is not stale news that should be whitewashed." A donation that size is a significant action - now it is part of what he is known for. Dougweller (talk) 16:25, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

• Agree with Dougweller. I reverted the page. — JJJ ^{(say hello)} 16:38, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

• the amount was fully sourced, and fully public and "largest" gives no understanding to the reader. was it $1,000 grassroots campaign or $50,000,000 super pac style donation. it is essential for understanding the relevance. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 13:03, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

The family, all the people whose lives you are so cavalierly impacting, would like to see this sensational and unnecessary information removed. In speaking of harrassment I was referring to the person who was motivated to post this in the first place. Mr Whealy and family have been under attack from highly unethical people for some time. You are aiding and abetting them. It seems extraordinary, Doug, that you can not imagine any way that sensational information posted to a megaphone like wikipedia could be used to hurt the people involved. I would appreciate other editors coming forward to comment. Mr Whealy's involvement in the prop 37 fight is duly noted. There is no reason to be sensational about it.(One of your editors has already blown this into " the largest donation received"- not true.) This is not a request based on shame or whitewashing as editors have suggested. This is about privacy and safety.Treastor (talk) 12:26, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi, how may I help? Bjelleklang - talk 13:11, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Treastor, I just don't understand. — JJJ ^{(say hello)} 14:18, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Just a quick note on the whole issue. The donation is public information and according to the source he was amongst the biggest contributors. That makes it relevant in his bio here. If mr. Whealy is having problems with threats from others, the police is the correct place to handle it, not Wikipedia. Privacy isn't an issue, as I'm fairly sure he knew that this was going to be public info once he donated the money.

That being said, I fail to see how he is notable; being a cofounder of anything doesn't establish notability, and neither does being the biggest donator for anything. The MacArthur Fellows Program might give him some notability, but I'd like to see that backed up with additional sources. Bjelleklang - talk 14:40, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

I dont see how you can get more reliable about who was named a MacArthur Fellows Program than the MacArthur Fellows website and "Any biography: The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for one several times." - the MacArthur Fellows Program aka MacArthur Genius award is a well-known and significant award.-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 15:11, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusion, what I meant was that I didn't know how important that award was, and that I'd like more sources to show that he was notable, not that he actually had received the award. But if the award is that important there is no problem with notability. Bjelleklang - talk 16:24, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Why the removal here as well then of Whealy's split with Seed Savers? It was publicized and written about by Whealy himself over an important issue. If his notability includes the reference to his co-founding Seed Savers and the details about what the organization does, then his public split with the organization over a major policy issue merits inclusion as well. In addition, his current role as a trustee for the CERES trust - a public position he holds - was also removed. If we agree this is a profile which should remain here - and I would argue Whealy is a notable figure - then there is no reason that his public positions that relate to his notability (agriculture), like his role as a Trustee for CERES - an organization active in agriculture advocacy/policy issues - should remain. I can see perhaps that his familial relationships (that he co-founded Seed Savers with his first wife and that his second wife is the founder of CERES) might be less relevant, although typically biographies include listing of spouses and in this case both have a relevant role/relationship to what makes this fellow notable.CinagroErunam (talk) 15:07, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

I agree those should be reinstated. In fact, I meant to get around to it. These are important parts of any good biography of him. I'm assuming that you didn't mean to write "then there is no reason that his public positions that relate to his notability (agriculture), like his role as a Trustee for CERES - an organization active in agriculture advocacy/policy issues - should remain" - maybe "should not remain"? Dougweller (talk) 15:12, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Correction, apologies for the mistype... I can reconstruct the information and put into the article in it's current form with the appropriate references a little later today.CinagroErunam (talk) 15:49, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

The thing is, there are only primary sources for this, "published" by involved persons/organization. And since they are dealing with an apparently controversial split, impacting a living person, how do you know that what is being presented is not being unduly self serving? WP:SPS / WP:BLP / WP:NPOV etc. DO not post it in the article, bring your suggested wording and sources to the talk page for consensus first. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 15:52, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

DRAFT Revised Profile

Collapsing as an alternative to a subpage which is really where it should be

Kent Whealy Born (1946-04-27) April 27, 1946 Sioux Falls, South Dakota, United States Nationality American Education University of Kansas Occupation(s) Philanthropist, Activist Spouse(s) Dianne Ott ​ (m. 1973⁠–⁠2007)​ Judith Kern ​ (m. 2008)​ Website http://www.cerestrust.org/ Kent Whealy (born 1946) is an American activist, journalist and philanthropist known for his work in organic agriculture and the promotion of saving heirloom seeds. Raised in Wellington, Kansas he was inspired by the works of agricultural geneticists Jack Harlan and H.Garrison Wilkes to use his training in communications to promote the protection of genetic diversity in agriculture. Career Kent Whealy graduated from the University of Kansas in 1969 with a degree in journalism. He started a family garden in 1975 which through various land acquisitions he helped developed into the Heritage Farm six miles north of Decorah, Iowa growing nearly 2,000 varieties of vegetables. In 1990 Whealy received a Fellowship from the MacArthur Fellows Program for his work in agriculture. Seed Savers Exchange Whealy co-founded Seed Savers Exchange, Inc. in 1975 with then wife Diane Ott publishing an annual yearbook identifying heirloom seed varieties available for sale in North America. The organization evolved into a private seed bank, collecting and saving heirloom varieties of vegetable, fruit and grain seeds. In 2004 the group extended its reach to include maintaining an ancient rare breed of White Park cattle. Whealy was fired by the Seed Savers board in 2007. In litigation, speeches and published letters following his termination Whealy cited disputes with board chair Amy P. Goldman and director Cary Fowler over the donations of Seed Saver members collections to the Svalbard Global Seed Doomsday Vault as the root cause of his termination while the board claimed Whealy had breached his fiduciary and employment responsibilities to the organization. Ceres Trust In 2009 Whealy became a trustee with the Ceres Trust. Ceres was founded by his second wife Judith (Judy) Kern and she and Whealy are the sole officers of the organization. Via the Ceres Trust Whealy and Kern fund research and advocacy campaigns in support of organic agriculture. Their initiatives include academic research and consumer education campaigns including funding for the production and promotion of documentaries including Sandra Steingraber’s movie Living Downstream on the dangers of pesticides and The Vanishing of the Bees on the role pesticides play in Colony Collapse Disorder, and other advocacy in partnership in support of organic agriculture with the Pesticide Action Network advocacy group. Advocacy Whealy has been an outspoken supporter of organic agriculture and the Slow Food movement and critic of pesticides and genetically modified crops calling their use “immoral.” In 2012 he was listed among the largest financial donors providing $1,000,000 in support of a California ballot initiative campaign to label foods derived from genetically engineered plants and animals. Bibliography Whealy, Kent (1988). The Field and Garden Vegetables of America. Chillocothe, IL: American Botanist. ISBN 978-0-9293-3200-0. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help) Whealy, Kent (1998). Heirloom Vegetables: A Home Gardener's Guide to Finding and Growing Vegetables from the Past. New York: Touchstone. ISBN 978-0-6848-3807-6. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help) Whealy, Kent (1999). 100 Heirloom Tomatoes for the American Garden. Decorah, IA: Workman Publishing. ISBN 978-0-7611-1400-0. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help) Whealy, Kent (2002). Seed to Seed: Seed Saving and Growing Techniques for Vegetable Gardeners. Decorah, IA: Seed Savers Exchange. ISBN 978-1-8824-2458-0. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help) Whealy, Kent (2005). Garden Seed Inventory: An Inventory of Seed Catalogs Listing All Non-Hybrid Vegetable Seeds Available in the United States and Canada. Decorah, IA: Seed Savers Exchange. ISBN 978-1-8824-2460-3. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help) Whealy, Kent (2009). Fruit, Berry and Nut Inventory, 4th edition: An Inventory of Nursery Catalogs and Websites Listing Fruit, Berry and Nut Varieties by Mail Order in the United States. Decorah, IA: Seeds Savers Exchange. ISBN 978-1-8824-2461-0. References {{Persondata <!-- Metadata: see [[Wikipedia:Persondata]]. --> | NAME = Whealy, Kent | ALTERNATIVE NAMES = | SHORT DESCRIPTION = American activist | DATE OF BIRTH = April 27, 1946 | PLACE OF BIRTH = [[Sioux Falls, South Dakota]], United States | DATE OF DEATH = | PLACE OF DEATH = }} [[Category:1946 births]] [[Category:Living people]] [[Category:Technical writers]]

CinagroErunam (talk) 21:06, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Comments about the DRAFT

1) Whealy cannot be used as a source to describe the reason he left Seed Savers - it can only say that he left.

• The reason he left is cited in multiple references, included the Center for Food Safety. It was a well publicized (but not in mainstream press articles) split over the Doomsday vault issue.)

2) citation 7 to Mother Earth News needs a complete citation to month (or was MEN just annual?)

• Fixed, it was a reference to the previously footnoted Mother Earth article.

3) its missing the actual Genius Grant which is the thing that actually makes him stand alone notable

• Added, simple ommission.

4) there is nothing about Philanthropy, the contribution to the California Prop is activism, not philanthropy

• His work and position with the CERES Trust is philanthropy. It's referenced in donations noted and referenced in the article (Funding: The Vanishing of the Bees, Living Downstream, the National Organic Coordinating campaign, etc...)

5) the CERES content is based solely on CERES primary documents and borderline promotional

• The CERES documents are public tax returns filed with the IRS - it's not promotional, they are simply matters of fact that the organization supports organic agriculture and funds organic related advocacy. Further, they are backed up by multiple third-party references and NOT solely sourced to Ceres.

-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 22:16, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

• • With the various comments addressed and no additional input, it appears OK to make the proposed update to the article. CinagroErunam (talk) 12:10, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
    • sorry I should have looked much closer. We cannot use primary sources such a court filings for content like this, we cannot use Diane formerly Ott Whealy's book for information/phrasing like that. the content regarding CERES is entirely Primary sourced. among the major issues I missed. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 13:56, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Merge with Seed Savers Exchange

Is there any reason why this article shouldn't be merged into and redirected to Seed Savers Exchange?? Zad68 16:14, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

• Whealy is no longer associated with Seed Savers but he continues to be independently influential, so merger would NOT be appropriate. His work in agriculture/food policy remains influential but completely separate from (and in fact in several key areas is in opposition to) Seeds Savers. Whealy has authored books and articles independent from his work with Seed Savers, he is a major financial contributor and advocate on food policy issues - all independent from that organization. CinagroErunam (talk) 16:25, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

• It doesn't really matter whether or not he's still with the organization. What we need are independent reliable secondary sources providing in-depth coverage of Ken Whealy the individual. If he has been notable outside the organization, there should be sources to cover that. Can we find those sources and get them in the article? With the way the article is now, there's not enough sources to support a stand-alone article. Zad68 16:29, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

as above, the MacArthur grant which was given to him as an individual satisfies the WP:ANYBIO, and the other item that he was known for, the donation, is not related to the Seed Savers. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 16:34, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

...as long as there are sufficient reliable secondary sources from which we can write an article, right? I agree he passes notability criteria, I'm just complaining that we need the sources from which we can write the bio. Zad68 16:39, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

meeting WP:N creates the presumption that he is suitable for a stand alone article, but there is of course no mandate. however, since two of the three items that we have sources for (the genius grant and the donation) are not related to Seed Savers it makes little sense to WP:COATRACK cover them in that article rather than a stand alone article about whealy himself -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:01, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

More comments There are several comments to be made here. First for accuracy: It is Heritage Farm not Bucknell. The org is Seed Savers Exchange not International. Mr Whealy left in 2007 not 09. Secondyou should not be providing a full birth date and residence for a living person. Particularly when coupled with the million dollar remark you are providing a roadmap for harm. Also it is not necessary to invade the privacy of his second wife and drag her onto wikipedia. She is not a notable person and her position is at a private, not public trust.Treastor (talk) 13:34, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks for the correction on Seed Savers formal name (I will fix) and on Bucknell - there were some confusing references to "Bucknell Heritage Farm" in Decorah and "Heritage Farm" in Decorah - since you appear to be involved or associated with the family here I'll assume you're correct and make that correction. I'll modify the Seed Savers section to include his 2007 departure - I was trying to avoid making a reference there that wasn't neutral given the only documentation for that date are references to his being fired by the board. Based on the publicly filed tax returns, Mr. Whealy was formally added to the Ceres Trust only in 2009 (he was not listed in their 2008 filing), so that's why that date was used. Do you have a reference or other information showing he joined prior? Mr. Whealy's spouses are influential and relevant to his profile. He co-founded Seed Savers with first wife Dianne Ott and His second wife Judy Kern is influential in that she founded Ceres and it is her personal wealth (based on the tax returns - over $30 million) which funds it and Mr. Whealy's related activities. CERES Trust is a publicly listed 501c3 Charitable Organization which has a website, issues communications offering research grants to public institutions and publicly promotes the results of its works. As the head of a tax-exempt organization, Ms. Kern's role and the activities of her organization are a matter of public record and not protected - were she not seeking public tax benefits/deductions for her organization and use of money exempt from taxation then she wouldn't have to file public tax returns. Via CERES, where she was the sole director/trustee, Ms. Kern was also a major donor to Seed Savers prior to marrying Mr. Whealy (he references her and the Ceres Trust contributions as important in his speeches and letters when he was publicly responding to his being fired from Seed Savers), Ms. Kern is jointly listed with Mr. Whealy as a contributor to other philanthropic groups and political campaigns, she has made public statements in defense of Mr. Whealy's work, she is referenced as a party to litigation involving Mr. Whealy and Seed Savers, and she is publicly referenced as Mr. Whealy's spouse in multiple valid/credible sources. I see nothing here which violates her privacy or which makes her somehow insufficiently relevant for inclusion in his profile. As for inclusion of birth dates, typically balancing privacy with using dates which are available on reliable public sources - Mr. Whealy's DOB is published in multiple sources publicly available online (not primary sources) see:Wikipedia:Biographies of living_persons#Privacy of personal information and using primary sources allows for their inclusion in biographical profiles - but I'll leave that up to other editors to weigh in on that detail - leaving the year of birth versus specific day and month would seem like a reasonable balance here. I hope it's clear that I have no interest in presenting anything other than a neutral and accurate profile here. Given some of the comments suggest I'm providing "promotional" claims as well; I'm just seeking accuracy and comprehensive relevant details to this influential person. CinagroErunam (talk) 18:05, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

You have not provided any documentation to support your assumption that Kern and Whealy are married. Are you just repeating rumors ?Treastor (talk) 16:52, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Treastor, really? What are you their lawyer or something? Their marriage is referenced in documents posted by the Seed Saver's board of directors on their website forum and in multiple other gardeners sources from people who know them. She is listed in the Charlevoix, MI phone book as "Judy Kern Whealy" [1]. They are listed as joint contributors to various charities and political committees. And, they both claim the same residence in other public documents in Charlevoix, MI. Are you somehow claiming now that they are not married? Here is one of the many Seed Savers Exchange website discussion board posts which references her as Kent Whealy's wife: "Only after Kent stepped down as Board President, did a whole new culture start blossoming at Seed Savers Exchange. We are weary of the seemingly relentless attacks Kent has made against us and against Seed Savers Exchange. We have attempted many times to resolve his issues. Kent and his new wife, Judy Kern, have each sued SSE in different courts and for different claims." (Archived at: http://www.zoominfo.com/#!search/profile/person?personId=2546392&targetid=profile). They are listed as "joint donors" - "Kent Whealy & Judy Kern" to the Littler Travers Land Trust 2009, 2010, 2011: http://www.landtrust.org/Newsletters/AnnualReport2009.pdf; http://www.landtrust.org/Newsletters/AnnualReport2010.pdf; and http://www.landtrust.org/Newsletters/AnnualReport2011.pdf. Here Judith Kern defends Kent Whealy, claims ex-wife forced him out of Seeds Savers "driven by her anger at being divorced..." = http://uncpressblog.com/2010/04/01/great-american-gardeners/ Judy Kern says: April 4, 2010 at 9:39 am, Ms. Coulter, I’m afraid you have your facts wrong. It was not Diane Ott Whealy who kept those seeds going, or Diane who introduced them to the commercial trade. It was her ex husband,Kent Whealy. Seed Savers was taken over by two board members, Amy Goldman and Neal Hamilton in October 2007. They through out SSE’s founder and director of 33 years, Kent Whealy. They had two motives. One to give Goldman a prestigious role in seed conservation which she does not deserve, and two to allow them to deposit SSE’s rare seeds in Svalbard, something the founder would not have allowed. Svalbard is not the black box storage that it is claimed to be. It is the portal to a FAO Treaty set up to facilitate acssess to seed banks collections for corporate breeders. The current board has viciously attacked Mr. Whealy, has spread malicious lies about him,has denied him access to 33 years worth of papers, has published new editions of his ground breaking books without his name on them, and has attempted to rewrite the history of SSE, giving all credit to his ex-wife who had a marginal role at best, while writing him out of it. Goldman’s actions have appalled SSE’s funders and their funding has vanished. Goldman maintain’s her power at SSE by handing out money to the other board members and lying to everyone concerned. A great injustice hs been done here and you should not be repeating their packaged lies.Diane Ott Whealy facilitated this takeover, driven by her anger at being divorced. - Judith Kern posted similar claims and documents defending Kent Whealy using her name here: http://www.findthatpdf.com/search-45649214-hPDF/download-documents-land-inst-svalbard-portion.pdf.htm Treastor, why don't you explain why it is so important to remove references to Kern in this profile? As previously noted, she's a relevant aspect to Kent Whealy's work and is the publicly listed co-Trustee to the philanthropy he uses to promote his work. She's clearly also willing to use her name publicly online defending his work and there is nothing about her in this profile that's disparaging or not factual and well sourced.CinagroErunam (talk) 22:53, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Treastor is far too close to the subject. Major COI if I ever saw one. — JJJ ^{(say hello)} 01:34, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Ott whealy was divorced in 2004. I wonder why you would make up dates when you don't have documentation.Treastor (talk) 16:02, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

• Now this ain't my pissin' match, but I just read through this weird screed and want to know who the heck is Ott Whealy and what 2004 has to do with anything written down here? Somebody just needs to delete this Treastor's comments and make some decisions about this article and move on... What ridiculousness and distracting BS going on here should stop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.43.66 (talk) 03:04, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Judith Kern

She's a trustee of the Ceres Trust, she signed their 990-PF form last November.[2]. Dougweller (talk) 17:45, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

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