Talk:Judenzählung

Completeness, truth

It looks like, as if there would not have been used some sources.

Requested move

"Jew Count" does not sound good (or right) in English. Proposing to move this to Judenzählung with proper redirects such as Jewish census in Germany, 1916, etc. Objections? ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 01:11, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I made a little research and found that the word Judenzählung is widely used in English scholarly sources. Therefore I decided to go ahead with the move. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 07:42, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

The Jewish Census proved the Germans Right

It is often stated that the Jewish sensus proved that the Jews took a fair part in the War casualties. This is incorrect. At the end of the war 12000 Jews were killed on a total of 5000.000 Germans. That means 0,28 percent of the casualties were Jews. Which is very low for a country with about 1 percent Jewish people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.168.243.40 (talk) 21:46, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

You'll have to do better than saying there are facts all over the internet and "do the math"... Such a claim requires a strong reference. Binksternet (talk) 22:00, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

The figure of 12,000 Jewish casualties is claimed by Jewish organizations, e.g. http://www.germanjewishsoldiers.com/epilogue.php or the Atlanta Holocaust Museum http://www.thebreman.org/exhibitions/online/1000kids/WWI.html. It is also the figure shown on the poster of the "Reichsbund Juedischer Frontsoldaten" pictured on this very page. As for the number of German deaths in WW1, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties gives the figure of 2,476,897, or 3.82% of the total population. According the the Encyclopaedia Britannica, there were 607,000 Jews in Germany in 1910.http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Jews. Thus, 12000/607000 = 0.019769, or 1.98%. It appears that German Jewish casualties were, proportionately, approximately half of that of the entire German population. This data seems to confirm the widespread contemporary belief that German Jews were not suffering casualties at the same rate as the German population as a whole, and may be one of the reasons the German Government chose not to publish the statistics. Indeed, it directly contradicts the opening statement in this Wikipedia article, that the census was "designed to confirm accusations of the lack of patriotism among German Jews, the census disproved the charges but its results were not made public" - the census was in fact planned by the German government, hoping to stifle anti-Jewish sentiment in the population, by showing that Jews served to the same extent as Germans. War Minister Wild von Hohenborn, charged with the undertaking of the census, claimed that the purpose was to consider claims that Jews were not represented in the same percentages as Christians, and "nachprüfen und ihnen gegebenenfalls entgegentreten zu können" (i.e. "to examine, and if necessary, to contradict these claims". Source http://www.zeit.de/1996/42/Dazu_haelt_man_fuer_sein_Land_den_Schaedel) But the data collected couldn't support this claim, thus the results were not published. --71.28.193.240 (talk) 14:41, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Two years later reply! With the sources you are showing, the article can confidently be changed, citing each change with a footnote to the relevant source. Binksternet (talk) 20:11, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm not the same as 82.168.243.40. I just happened upon this discussion today and thought I would make a few remarks.--75.89.128.3 (talk) 21:32, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

I disagree: Much of that long paragraph is original research, and the sources are not up to standards (e.g. either sourcing to Wikipedia itself or other encyclopedias.) Also, is there an NPOV dispute? What is it exactly? Who disputes what? It's unclear. Considering removing the NPOV dispute tag. Dogweather (talk) 08:34, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I looked up the most reliable source you cited: the Die Zeit article. You note Hohenborn's (self-serving) quote, but the very next two sentences of the article represent Die Zeit's analysis and contradict it: the previous history and implementation of the census belied its true purpose; to confirm that the Jews have been screwing over the German army. (My translation, of course.) Vorgeschichte und Durchführung des Erlasses weisen allerdings in eine andere Richtung: Es ging dem preußischen Kriegsministerium nicht um eine Widerlegung der antisemitischen Anwürfe, sondern im Gegenteil darum, Material für ihre Bestätigung in die Hand zu bekommen. I'll add this new source and its analysis. Dogweather (talk) 08:50, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

File:1920 poster 12000 Jewish soldiers KIA for the fatherland.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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' ... the Republican Minister of Defense' (!)

Germany was not a republic at the time, so these words suggest sloppiness, either in the source or the copying. If they are used in the source I would expect at the least sic after Republican. The reference suggests that the source should be checked again for actual wording and reliability more generally. What's more, it was the Prussian Minister of War, Adolf Wild von Hohenborn, who issued the decree. Norvo (talk) 22:50, 12 June 2019 (UTC)