Talk:John and Lorena Bobbitt/Archive 1

Archive 1

Severed penis pic

I think the penis pick should be removed. Too graphic. Perhaps it can be lowered in the page so people can be warned first?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.9.154.246 (talk • contribs) .

Wikipedia is not censored. I wouldn't mind it being moved down, though. --Rory096 21:30, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Somebody please do something about the penis picture! I think it's okay to have, but please have some type of warning. It doesn't even have to do with it being a penis but being a SEVERED body part, which would give me the same reaction if it were a severed hand, foot, eyeball, etc. Jbm867 05:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I tried to argue this point on another talk page, so someone posted a picture of a gutted man just to make a point. Just give it up. Wikipedia, in its attempt to avoid censorship (except as dictated by Florida law), has gone to the point of shoving this stuff down our throats.

If you really want to change this, find offensive pictures of a documentary nature in more sensitive topics (alternate sexuality, child abuse (of a suggestive, not explicit, nature), etc.), and add them appropriately to articles until people reach a consensus that it has to stop.

Just make sure it is in line with policy; vandalism will have the opposite effect of what is intended. Zuiram 05:06, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Is Wikipedia never censored? John Bobbitt was the victim of a crime. If a woman were victimized in a similar way, there is no way such a photo would be tolerated. Or can you refer us to photos of women, say, being raped that appear on Wikipedeia?24.64.223.203 04:45, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

In order to more effectively make this point, you could add a picture (of a consenting adult) to the Female_circumcision page, and during the discussions refer to this page and others of its kind as precedent. Such a picture would have identical value to the articles. Zuiram 05:06, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't like seeing that penis head picture either. Lower it down on the page, and warning in big bold font. 68.102.37.191 07:27, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Don't move it. Don't remove it. Leave it alone. We've been over this in autofellatio and in penis and in clitoris and in feces. And that's just off the top of my head. Wikipedia isn't censored, for any reason, nor should it be - whether the censorship is intended to cover violence, sex, or anything else. It's a collection of knowledge, and prudishness of any kind is just going to fuck it up.

IMO, it's not prudishness to not want to see e.g. a photo of child abuse on that page if the server moved to a jurisdiction which allowed it, or to not want to see the effects of acid on humans under the health and safety section on Nitric_acid.

Everyone gets offended by something, and some things offend more than others.

The autofellatio article you mentioned, has only an illustration on its main page. To view the explicit picture, you have to click a link to it. The same could advantageously be applied elsewhere, allowing those who wish to see it to do so, while not forcing it upon those of us who do not wish to see it.

FWIW, this particular picture does not offend me, personally. It is low resolution, and not overly explicit or gory, IMHO. However, I'd still like to see it moved to a subpage. IMO, the net utility of wikipedia is the amount of material it provides multiplied by the number of people to which said material is useful. Moving it to a subpage does not lower the amount of provided material, but it does increase the number of people who will not press the 'Back' button, rather than reading the article.

Zuiram 05:06, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, the comparison of the penis pic with a picture of a woman being raped is completely ridiculous. If it was a picture of Lorena actually removing John's penis (though who knows why that picture would exist), then it would be the same thing. As is, it's a picture of a piece of evidence being shown in a courtroom - in fact, it's the most important piece of evidence in the entire case, probably. That makes it a perfectly logical inclusion in an encyclopedia. If it can be shown to a court, why can't it be shown to encyclopedia readers? Suntiger 18:22, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, in some courts, it would not be shown, to avoid undue emotional impact on the jurors, whose task it is in these courts to objectively evaluate guilt et cetera.

Moreover, the legitimacy of forcing people to participate in jury duty itself is debatable, particularly as it potentially involves exposure to people and situations one would otherwise not expose oneself to, against one's will. Zuiram 05:06, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

this page is censored and very heavily so. it is absolutely wired for pro-female arguments the filter dismissed even the definition of the word testify guess where it comes from -- yes sherlock testicles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.146.9.204 (talk) 21:05, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Ecuador supporters

"Some feminist political activists and Ecuador residents were vocal supporters of Lorena during the media ordeal."

I'm confused. Is this Ecuador, the country? There doesn't seem to be any citations... --Lachoy11 18:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

spelling redirection needed

Based on sampling at google, most of the world seems to think the woman's name is spelled Loreena, with two e's, which was my own understanding. It doesn't matter who is right, but on searches, both spellings should lead to this page. Only the correct spelling should appear in the title, of course. Lamabillybob 23:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

While it's possible that The New York Times is wrong, it spells Lorena's name with one e. I did create the two redirects Loreena Bobbitt and John and Loreena Bobbitt. --Asbl 15:19, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Since she was born in South America and has an Hispanic maiden name, it's almost got to be Lorena. Lorena is an actual Hispanic name; Loreena isn't, and goes against spelling/pronunciation standards in Spanish. A sample of other articles shows that it's Lorena anyway. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.207.106.58 (talk) 03:35, 7 March 2007 (UTC).

Bobbit worm

The reference to John Wayne and Lorena has been removed from the Bobbit worm (sic) page as it is unverifiable (although very funny!) - suggest removing reference to worm from this page also if nobody objects. Squeezeweasel 17:03, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Page Protection

Perhaps this page should be protected by an administrator due to the large amounts of vandalism it seems to inspire by anonymous IP addresses? - Ocatecir 00:31, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Linkimage

Template:Linkimage has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you.   — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 22:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Location of incident

The article states that they lived in Manassas Park, VA which is not true. They lived in the Maplewood Park Apartments located at the intersection of Maplewood Drive and Peakwood Court in zipcode 20111. This is outside of the City of Manassas Park's limits. The actual mailing address for that location is Manassas, VA 20111. Just about nobody outside of the corporate limits of Manassas Park uses Manassas Park, VA 20111 as their mailing address, and in fact the USPS's website shows that "Manassas" is the preferred city name for zip code 20111.

I am curious as to why or how the notion that Bobbit lived in Manassas Park came to be, given the above.

USPS - ZIP Code Lookup - Find a City By ZIP Code Results show the following (images omitted):

Cities in a ZIP Code may be referred to by more than one name or spelling. These results indicate the actual city name, as well as any acceptable alternatives.

Actual City name in 20111
MANASSAS, VA
Acceptable City names in 20111
MANASSAS PARK, VA

Criminal Castration and Severed Penis crimes, Bobbitt - The Crime library says "Manassas" twice, with no mention of "Park".

It appears that they lived in the Maplewood Park Apartments at 8178 Peakwood Ct, Manassas, VA 20111-2134. USPS - ZIP Code Lookup - Find a ZIP + 4 Code By Address Results show the following (images and some unnecessary formatting omitted):

Find a ZIP + 4® Code By Address Results

You Gave Us

8178 Peakwood Ct
Manassas VA  20111

Full Address in Standard Format
8178 PEAKWOOD CT MANASSAS VA  20111-2134

I have changed the article to reflect these revelations.   — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 22:39, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

It appears further that the change was made in this not-fully-subtantiated edit "as per Manassas article".   — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 22:53, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

As someone who lives here (in Manassas) I'll clarify the addressing. The apt they live in is just barely outside the city limits of Manassas Park, in Prince William County. For reference: the 7-ll across from the field she threw his penis in (less than a half mile down the road) is inside the city limits of Manassas Park. Manassas City's city limits are about a mile north on rte 28. Manassas and Manassas Park form a sort of "C" shape around the area their apartment is located in. Take a look at this map to see an example: Look where 28 passes through Manassas Park, then through the county, then into the city of Manassas, and you'll see why there is confusion. Everyone here considers that area part of Manassas Park even though it really isnt: http://www.princewilliamcountywebsite.com/map.html JamesBenjamin 02:16, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

That 7-11 is located at 8211 Old Centreville Road. This address is not within the city limits of Manassas Park, and in fact, if you visit the Prince William County GIS Mapper website here you can enter the parcel GPIN 7796-98-7710 and verify that this property is within Prince William County and is not in Manassas Park. (The mere existence of the ownership and parcel information on the Prince William County GIS Mapper confirms this, as the GIS Mapper contains no data for parcels of land in Manassas City or Manassas Park City.) As far as "everyone here" considering that area (Maplewood Park Apts) part of Manassas Park, that is, in my experience, having lived in the Maplewood Park Apartments at one time, not true. 68.48.240.189 03:13, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Severed Penis Picture

Why was it removed? I thought Wikipedia isnt censored.--76.173.255.40 (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Val Venis

"In 1998 he appeared on the World Wrestling Federation's Monday Night Raw program alongside the porn star character Val Venis who had recently almost had his penis cut off."

Is this really the case? The Val Venis article just says that there was a simulated near-castration as part of the whole wrestling thing, not that he had truly almost lost his penis. And the citation doesn't list a page number. 70.130.233.237 (talk) 19:45, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism?

The claim that the penis was located by Frank Agnello seems false. Removed by speedy deletion. Virtuald (talk) 02:50, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Unsuccessful Rappers?

Slightly confused by "Several other hip hop artists have tried unsuccessfuly to use the story in their rhymes." What characterises unsuccessful use of a story in lyrics? Did they not, in fact, use the story? Did they rhyme badly? Was the reference n ot clear, or not funny? I'd like an explanation of the claim, and examples and citations. Davidtmoore (talk) 11:25, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

One T or Two?

Both "Bobbit" and "Bobbitt" are used in this article, and I'm unable to find a definitive spelling. This is super important, people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.217.69 (talk) 05:13, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Too many Rap references

nuff said —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.161.232 (talk) 00:36, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

World Wrestling Federation or WWE?

"In 1998 he appeared on the World Wrestling Federation's Monday Night Raw television program alongside the porn star character Val Venis who at the time "almost"[clarification needed] had his penis cut off by a fellow WWE contender.[8][9] Not long after, he moved to Las Vegas, Nevada, where he worked as a bartender, limousine driver, mover, and tow truck operator. He also had a stint serving at a wedding chapel as a minister of a Universal Life Church in Las Vegas.[3][10]"

World Wrestling Federation was later dubbed World Wrestling Entertainment, however - in this location it's listed both ways. This could be a bit confusing to the reader. Instead, if we're going to call it 'World Wrestling Federation', then should we not write "by a fellow WWF contender", since WWF was the former acronym? Would it be grammatically correct to write "then WWF" with a hyperlink back to the WWE page instead? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.228.94.73 (talk) 11:13, 1 March 2012‎ (UTC)

Not in Manassas

To continue the "Location of incident" deduction above, Maplewood Park Apartments (8178 PEAKWOOD CT MANASSAS VA) is not in Manassas, it's in Yorkshire. Yorkshire has a Manassas postal address, but it is not part of Manassas (the Manassas postal address extends well outside of Manassas). Either the Bobbits did not live there when this occurred, or this event occurred in Yorkshire.

There are some sources that say that this is in Manassas, but in my experience, many otherwise reliable sources would say that something is in Manassas, merely because it has a Manassas postal address. Before using a source to conform that this is in Manassas, make sure it defines "in X" as "in X" and not "has an X postal address". Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 06:40, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

I've found this sourec [1] which confirms the address, and explicitly confirms that this was not in Manassas. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 06:59, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

This source confirms the address too, tough it includes it under a "Manassas" section (probably referring to either the Manassas area, or the postal address). Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 07:06, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Correction: the sources give the addresses as 8174 PEAKWOOD CT, tough my map shows it's location as being identical to the 8178 address. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 07:18, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

I've done some more investigation with those refs, Google Earth and the USPS website. Google Earth shows that the address is in the CDP of Yorkshire, but the USPS doesn't know about Yorkshire, and evidently Yorkshire has a fire department but no police department (it uses county police services). I think it's fair to write "John Wayne Bobbitt arrived at the couple's apartment, #5, on the second floor of the Maplewood Park Apartments at 8174 Peakwood Court, Yorkshire, Prince William County, Virginia, which uses the Manassas, Virginia main Post Office, has ZIP+4 code 20111-2143, and has GPS coordinates 38.778990°N 77.454673°W / 38.778990; -77.454673." How does that look?   — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 02:31, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

"Yorkshire, Prince William County, Virginia" is an unusual format, but I have no objection to it. It gives the reader a better idea of the location, tough I would prefer if it had a "(near Manassas)" it it, as Manassas is far more well known.

As for the stuff about ZIP Codes, and Post Offices; Yorkshire is not highly unusual for using another city's name in it's postal address, lots of cities do that (see Zip_code#ZIP_codes_and_previous_zoning_lines), and we don't include sameller statements whenever we refer to them. It would be a good addition to the Yorkshire article, but for this article it's excessive.

As for identifying the specific location of the incident; I'm not so sure that's a good idea, but I'm not going to object if it's added. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 05:24, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100219102041/http://buzz7.com:80/world/john-bobbitt-still-loves-lorena-16-yrs-after-she-hacked-off-his-penis.html to http://buzz7.com/world/john-bobbitt-still-loves-lorena-16-yrs-after-she-hacked-off-his-penis.html
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External links modified

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Clear bias

The meat of the article was clearly altered to portray John as a particularly abusive person. This seems odd when one looks at the case results. Giving only her account and then implying "his story didn't add up" is POV. The sources are mostly primary, which means someone is maming theseclaims themselves. I don't know if it follows a feminist narrative supporting Lorena or just an own perspective, but it's inappropriate. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 09:08, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure what bias you are seeing by the article's current state. Per WP:Neutral, we can only go by what the WP:Reliable sources state, WP:Primary or secondary, and with the appropriate weight. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:30, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

What did she throw into the field?

The car window - as the text suggests?--Gr5959 (talk) 21:03, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

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Category confusion

I have a question. Does the "married couples" category include couples who have divorced? Maximajorian Viridio (talk) 00:33, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Forthcoming documentary

A documentary is to be released on Feb. 15; see the boldface text below. This is from the New York Times online (headline is linked), Jan. 30, 2019. I'm quoting the headline, subhead, and paragraphs 6 and 7.

You Know the Lorena Bobbitt Story. But Not All of It.

In the 1990s, she was the topic of tabloid headlines and comedy skits. Now, as a documentary series takes on the story, she opens up about how that one night changed her life.

...

Lorena is correct, of course, that most people forget that before she was tried for what she did, John was charged with marital sexual assault. (He was acquitted.) At the time, marital rape only recently had been made a crime in all 50 states and was nearly impossible to prove in Virginia. Many in the media, including Ladies’ Home Journal and Gay Talese on assignment for The New Yorker, questioned whether it was an oxymoron. (“Wife Rape? Who Really Gets Screwed?” an earlier column in Penthouse read.) Al Franken, as the character Stuart Smalley on Saturday Night Live, implored Lorena to apologize to John’s penis. And, she is correct, that people forget that a jury found her not guilty by reason of temporary insanity. We forget about the string of witnesses at her trial who testified that they had seen bruises on her arms and neck and that she had called 911 repeatedly and that John had bragged to friends about forcing his wife to have sex. In the years since the trial, he was arrested several times and served jail time for violence against two different women. (He denied the allegations.) “This is about a victim and a survivor and this is about what’s happening in our world today,” Lorena told me.

That is the story she tells in “Lorena,” a four-part, Jordan Peele-produced documentary that will debut on Amazon Prime Video on Feb. 15. And that is why she took a break from volunteering with her daughter’s volleyball team and her work at her nonprofit, Lorena’s Red Wagon, that helps survivors of domestic violence, to have lunch and show me around this bedroom community outside Washington, where it all went down.

Elsewhere the article says

“When I finished with the trial, in the beginning, geez, I couldn’t even go to the grocery store because people would say, ‘Oh my god, You know what, I know you.’ I just wanted to put my groceries down and go home,” Lorena said in still accented English.

And I thought "Accented? Why? There's something missing here." The article only refers to her, at the time of the incident, as "a young immigrant" and mentions that she's using her maiden surname, Gallo. So I came here to find out more, but there's no "Early life" section. More info would be useful.

--Thnidu (talk) 23:09, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Trial(s)

I'd like to perform two edits, and provide citations:

1) I'd like to add the crimes with which John and Lorena were each charged. Neither charge is mentioned. 2) I'd like to create two sections in place of the one "Arrest and Trial"—one for Lorena and one for John. Alternatively, we could just rename the section "Arrests and trials".

It seems that originally this article was about an individual rather than the two of them, which warrants splitting the above-mentioned section into two. I'd appreciate any opinions on these proposed changes. Matuko (talk) 19:52, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

April 2019 I agree with this completely, and came here to make this exact same point. There were two trials, not one. They were each tried separately. The article doesn't mention this at all.

Raydot (talk) 23:53, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Attribution

Text and references copied from Lorena Bobbitt to Bertha Boronda, See former article's history for a list of contributors. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:38, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Lead

Redditor132, here is the place to make your case instead of edit warring. -Crossroads- (talk) 01:10, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

I replied on his talk page. I don't have anything more to state on the matter. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:12, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

He/she does not wish to have a discussion. I provide a credible source, state only the apparent facts, and I wrote the most neutral possible text I could. But he/she insists on reverting to the inflammatory tabloid-like original. I don't know how I'm supposed to reason with this person. Redditor132 (talk) 01:20, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Use Penis, or amputated Penis instead of "appendage"

It's a body part, not an "appendage". 46.114.6.11 (talk) 03:30, 30 April 2020 (UTC)