Talk:John M. Allegro

Full Name

Since when is he normally referred to by his full name "John Marco Allegro"? It's always been just "John Allegro". JackofOz 07:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

He has always been known as John Marco Allegro to devotees of that ... um, interesting and original ... work The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. Seriously, I think that's the name it was published under. Metamagician3000 13:18, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

So how come it's now been changed to "John M. Allegro", on the basis that there are far more hits for this version than for his full name? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 07:36, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Um, was that a question or a statement? 150.203.35.113 (talk) 07:32, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Um, that was a question. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 10:58, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Bias

A free thinker who challenged orthodox views? If this sin't biased, I don't knwo what is. --queso man 23:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Allegro's views in The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross are clearly outside of anything remotely within the range of accepted academic discourse. Pretending that his views in said book are remotely academically credible as the phrase "free thinking who challenged orthodox views" does is the result of bias and is not NPOV.

Saying that someone is "free thinking" or challenges orthodox views" does not relate to their academic standing either way, it simply means that they are free thinking and challenge orthodox views. Are you implying that only academics are allowed to be free thinkers or to challenge orthodoxy? But to your point I think it apparent that anyone given access to the dead sea scrolls and actually on the original team analyzing the scrolls was accorded some academic respect at one point. And to address queso man's contention, I don't see what is biased about this phrase. It seems obvious that this is precisely what Allegro was. Would you rather it stated that Allegro was a complete nutjob? And that wouldn't be biased? Machaira

I think both ways are slightly stilted. One makes him seem like a revolutionary leader, the other a complete psychopath. While I am prone to the latter view myself, it might be better to say that "John Allegro was a scholar whose views were far from the mainstream of scholarly practice" or something similar. We don't neccessarily know that he was a free thinker (he certainly wasn't open minded to the ideas of the other scholars), but he was certainly off the beaten path. TheWhitefire — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheWhitefire (talk • contribs) 13:30, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

NPOV and refs

Allegro is a very minor fringe figure who was considered ludicrous by most people even at the height of his fame, but there is no reason why we should freeze this article because of questions about material from the Eerdmans book (we should AGF that they have been usef with permission) but continue to improve it with refs. NBeale 13:11, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually much of the text and the "sourced with permission" was added by an anoymous user on 4 Jan 07 for whom this is apparently the only edit. Frustrating!NBeale 13:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Reverted to last good version and reduced to stub. Viriditas (talk) 08:11, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

"ANONYMOUS USER"

We have left several notes here on this page regarding the edits. I have left two messages and notes here that have been completely ignored. At least we thought they were here...? Maybe we put them in the wrong place? Or they were deleted? We have added the necessary footnotes and included references to new material that brings the detractors of Allegro's work into question. It would be nice of those arguing against this entry to read the references now provided.

We have left our contact information several times for anyone who wants to contact us with questions regarding the permission of the use of this article. jan@gnosticmedia.com

Please feel free to contact us! Jan Irvin 03:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

All manner of men

This was a book written by allegro about racism and the abilities accorded certain races. Africans (which he divides into what he calls capoids and congoids) have he argues an inate ability for music. He concludes that where there is racial diversity there is racial conflict.

I would suggest that it was this that ruined his career not the SM&C. Whatever one thinks of the book I would like to see mention of it in the article. The ISBN is "0398045755" and it was published in Springfield, Ill. by C.C. Thomas, circa 1982. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.111.96.48 (talk) 19:02, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Matrix

In this context, what is a matrix? I think this needs to be clarified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.177.136 (talk) 14:24, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Clarified? That's putting it lightly. What on Earth is "the matrix of Christianity" supposed to mean? 150.203.35.113 (talk) 02:17, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Quotation

"SMC [The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross] uses a number of hypothetical Sumerian words not attested in texts. These are marked with an asterisk following philological convention. This is akin to proposing there is a word in the English language 'bellbat' because the individual words 'bell' and 'bat' are known to exist separately. Then again words of different languages are gathered together without the type of argument which would be expected in order to demonstrate possible relationship." This quotation is bizarrely presented as an endorement of Allegro, when it is clearly the opposite. I am changing the reference to it. Paul B (talk) 08:23, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Inaccurate notes

I was surprised to see the famous German philosopher Jürgen Habermas invoked in the Notes, but when following the link it turned out not to be Jürgen Habermas at all, but some American theologist named GARY Habermas. THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED

Also, the link to "egodeath.com" is dead. THIS ALSO NEEDS TO BE FIXED

83.250.6.182 (talk) 17:27, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Plagiarised article

I see that the bulk of this article's text can be found on the "official website" johnallegro.org (which itself is taken from another book). So any future editor should do something about this... --Dawud —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.28.64.50 (talk) 13:02, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Confirmed. I'm going to submit this article to the right people and have them look. Viriditas (talk) 07:55, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Reverted to last good version and reduced to stub. Viriditas (talk) 08:11, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Debunked?

Would appreciate the skeptics pointing to scholarly rebuttals of Allegro's material. The Dead Seas Scrolls reasearch was heavily overseen by the Israeli Antiquities Authority and to date, outside of religious sniping, I have seen nothing in this article that debunk's Allegro's theories as lain out in the Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. 96.30.162.10 (talk) 19:16, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

More info wanted

I want more information about Allegro's background. He initially studied Methodism. His name sounds vaguely Italian to me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.65.7.129 (talk) 13:25, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Allegro's father was Italian and a freethinker. Allegro met his future wife, Joan, towards the end of WW2 through meetings his naval chaplain, a Methodist, introduced him to. --I.Hutchesson ► 21:38, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

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Cause of death

It seems strange that Allegro died at 65yo of just a heart attack without predisposing cause... Was this caused by a drug administered by the Vatican to poison Allegro? 2001:8003:6A23:2C00:B4F6:129F:5D01:25EF (talk) 12:38, 7 September 2018 (UTC)