Talk:John Carter (ER)

Additional Romantic interest?

Sorry if I'm using the wrong page but there is another romantic intrest for Dr. Carter. Rebecca de Mornay played his brother's or cousins' ex-wife (Elaine Nichols) and they were romaticly involved while she was undergoing tests for breast cancer. She ended the relationship after she found out he knew of her diagnoses. I think is was in 1999. I am not sure of the specifics but I am sure of the plot line. I don't know how to edit an article so please accept my apologies if this action is wrong..Cizukev 14:55, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

moved to its own talk section AddMan3001 (talk) 14:59, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Carter and Dakarai.jpg

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BetacommandBot 20:58, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Carterguncongo.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:44, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Carterkemcongo.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:Cartermomlimo.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:45, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:JohnCarter.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Carter was still Chief Resident in season 9 / hire date as an attending

I know it doesn't make sense because he was already CR in season 8, but he is still clearly referred to as Chief Resident in late s9 (i.e. 2003) so I guess it's a mistake on the show's part. I've already made this clear in my edit summaries but this has been willfully ignored. Jerkov (talk) 22:28, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you that the show made a mistake. Actually he has been the chief resident since the last episodes of season seven, so he kept this position through almost 2 years. Takeit10 (talk) 02:56, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually he didn't become CR until a few episodes into season 8, after Chen quit. That was in 2001. Jerkov (talk) 07:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

You guys do realize, don't you, that Carter was NEVER formally hired as an Attending. They just slyly made him one in one episode so he could get tenure in the most bogus way possible. So if you're strictly accurate, he should be listed as a shift doctor after S9. Drmargi (talk) 03:04, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

One reference by a clerk in one episode does not make Carter an attending for the season. We never saw him hired (and yes, he does have to be hired - it's not an automatic promotion) or heard any discussion of his being hired. We just heard Jerry call him an attending once late in the season in what might just as easily have been a continuity error. Seek consensus, add a note in the narrative or something else appropriate, but it is not accurate to describe him as an attending from 2002 on. He wasn't an attending at any time in 2002. He was Chief Resident, having extended his residency (and training period) by a year that wouldn't end until June, 2003. Drmargi (talk) 14:59, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

In all honesty, while he's probably CR for most of season 9, I do think the beginning year for his Attending status should be changed from 2004 to 2003. I think it makes more sense to assume that he was hired as an Attending in the 2003 half of s9 off-screen than to assume it was a continuity error that Jerry called him one, especially with Occam's Razor in mind. Simplest explanation is generally the most likely, right? Jerkov (talk) 23:25, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll look into the claim that Abby refers to him as an Attending in episode 9x07 (Nov. 2002). In the meantime, how about we stop edit warring? Jerkov (talk) 13:29, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I've got the right page to report the edit warring now. I'm not sold on a couple stray references by his girlfriend and a clerk making Carter an attending. There's been long-term, uncontroversial consensus among editors here that Carter was CR in S9. What is the context of each reference? That's important, given that a S9 major plot point was that Carter remained as CR because he couldn't get an attending job. I might agree to 2003 were Q103josh to engage in discussion and a good case made, but for now, no change until he does. Drmargi (talk) 16:28, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I watched episode 9x07, which aired in 2002. There's a scene where Abby shows her brother's medical papers, which she illegally acquired by putting in Carter's name as the treating Attending. While this could be unrealiable since Abby forged the info, it should be noted that Carter says "You forged my name" and not "You forged my name AND authorative position"; you'd think he would've mentioned that. I'm beginning to get the impression that Q102josh may actually be correct on this and the consensus should be reviewed. That doesn't change anything about Josh's conduct during the editing process though; all criticisms about his refusal to discuss still stand and Drmargi is still wholly justified to report him for edit warring. Josh may be right, but he ruined things for himself by acting the way he did. Jerkov (talk) 20:01, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, no go. We're weighing two minor references against a major plot point. Your interpretation, while reasonable, is in the territory of original research. You can't draw a conclusion from a scene where the emphasis was on Abby's forgery, not the accuracy of Carter's title. Drmargi (talk) 20:21, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, fair enough. I do think Occam's Razor dictates it's most likely he was an Attending at that point, but I'm gonna stop pursuing this since I feel like I'm doing Q102josh's work for him. Jerkov (talk) 20:29, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Occam's Razor is fine up to the point where we wander into original research. That's my concern. The main plot line had Carter continuing as Chief Resident; minor lines of dialogue confuse the issue, to be sure, but once we start overthinking this, we're beyond fact and into interpretation. And that's original research. Mind, I'm not suggesting Carter wasn't at some point finally hired as an attending during S9. But we need to do two things: 1. get the edit warring under control so we can reach consensus and 2. stop depending on this line or that line and look at the overall story for the season. Once that's done, if we decide Carter left his CR position at some point and became an attending, so be it. Drmargi (talk) 22:34, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

We continue to wander into the land of original research and POV with Carter's hire date as an attending. Given the show has never clearly established when prior to Season 11 he was actually hired as an attending, we need some evidence aside from stray references in dialogue to his being someone's attending to establish the actual season when he changed from shift doctor to faculty attending. He was eligible to be hired as an attending when he took the position as Chief Resident, but can't be both, which means he couldn't have been an attending in S8 or at least the majority of S9. There's dialogue late in that season where Carter talks to Abby about not being able to get anything but shift work, a plot point that leads in part to his decision to go to Africa to join Luka. I would argue the earliest it could possibly be was January, 2004 (mid-season 10) when he returned from Africa, an that's speculative at best. I don't know what the solution to this is, but the guessing at a date based on interpretation of titles, stray references to him as an attending by other characters in dialogue, and speculation that something happened between episodes or seasons won't cut it. Drmargi (talk) 07:49, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

There are SEVERAL references of Carter being an attending near the end of Season 10 (take season 10, Episode 17 when Kovac talks about 'attending gossip'). That would put the start date of his employment as an attending physician before this date, which was 2004. When I watch the other episodes in Season 10, I will refer to these as examples, also. I agree that one stray example of dialogue is not enough, but coupled with five or six references in passing of Carter being an attending in the tenth season (and I'm certain earlier in Season 10) and the fact that he was able to achieve tenure (the spontaneous attending doesn't wash, and him being an attending before this makes so much more sense), this all suggests that he was hired as an attending when he came back from Africa. Whether he was hired as a per diem or an attending — for God's sake it would of have to have happened between episodes! If we can't believe he was hired as an attending, why is it so easy to assume he was hired as a per diem physician when we also did not see this? Vivara (talk) 16:47, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

"John Carter is the only lead character in the series who has interacted with all the show's series regular characters."

Is this for sure? Weaver was a contemporary of virtually all regular characters between 1995 and 2007. I haven't seen the 2009 series finale yet; did she interact with Banfield and Brenner? If so, Carter is not the only character who interacted with all other regular characters. Jerkov (talk) 18:42, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

If it's not referenced then it doesn't belong. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Weaver never interacted with Brenner or Banfield. So yeah, Carter did meet with every regular character on the show. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.210.141.110 (talk) 21:23, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

NGO Luka and Carter Worked With

The organization Luka and later Carter worked for was a fictional group called Alliance Medicines (Doctors Alliance), not Doctors WIthout Borders (Medicines Sans Frontieres). Luka does talk about having worked with DWOB in Bosnia in an earlier season, and When he first mentions Carter going he suggests DWOB. However, when we see Luka in Africa in "Kissangani", he's wearing ID and a shirt that clearly identify the group as Alliance Medicines. Check the episode "The Lost" (10x02) for a clear view of Luka's ID. DWOB's name is copyrighted, and ER most likely did not have permission to use it. Drmargi (talk) 20:16, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Early characterization

I removed the section on "early characterization" as it is completely unreferenced and some of it is too in-universe. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Episode Count

Carter's Episode Count is missing in the article. His total is 254.(250 as part of the main cast and 4 as special guest star on season 12) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Akujy (talk • contribs) 17:57, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Last appearance / Attending issue

Carter was back on the show during the end of the 15th season, had top billing in all the episodes he appeared, and John Wells admited that the finale was told through Carter's POV, thus making sure that Carter was more than just a guest-star in the final season, thus should be allowed to be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.38.16.139 (talk) 21:35, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Carter was refered to as an Attending ever since returning from Africa, has been part of the Attendings meetings for resident evaluation and Lewis mentioned she had more experience as an Attending than Carter did when she was refused the grant, meaning he was an Attending before the grant ever came into place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.38.16.139 (talk) 21:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

IN YOUR OPINION. You've provided nothing in print to back it up. You need to discuss this on the John Carter article talk page, where we've already reviewed the story extensively, and come to consensus. Just because you can cite stray lines of dialogue doesn't provide the sourcing you need for the edits you've made. The dialogue in the show is very contradictory, however there is NO scene where he's hired as a staff attending, but several where he's hired PER DIEM. He still functions in the attending role, but doesn't have the title. Please STOP reverting, follow Wikipedia guidelines, provide sources that are in print, and discuss. You might also want to read up on various medical titles in the US.

The credits in Season 15 were honorary, and according to several press releases from the time (see the ER article page for references) they were honorary. Neither Wyle, Edwards, Clooney, La Salle nor Marguilies returned to the main cast; they were simply given their first-season billing to honor their roles in the show. Their appearances were guest star appearances that do not belong in the infobox. All this was hashed out on the ER article, at length, and consensus reached at the time the show was finishing. You will continue to be reverted if you persist in making these changes that are against consensus and not accurate.

You are now on the verge of edit warring because of your refusal to discuss. The procedure when an edit is reverted, is to initiate discussion. I've requested you do so multiple times, and instead you leave unsigned statements on your talk pages and mine, which don't help. It's also clear you're IP hopping to avoid WP:3RR and edit warring perceptions. You need to follow the rules around here, or will find yourself blocked in a hurry. Drmargi (talk) 21:52, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

I have stated facts. I didn't make the facts up.

Carter's return was more than honorary, as it served the story being told. John Wells admited so, by saying that the finale was being told through his eyes, as was the show overally. He was in the finale, and that was his final appearence - thus his appearence in season 11 was not his final, given that season 15's finale was. And I fail to understand the insistence to list the character actual last appearence, which wasn't in season 11 of course but season 15. Thats a fact.

He wasn't announced as an Attending in season 11 either, when he got the grant. He attended meeting with the rest of the Attendings, and Lewis aknowledged him as such, whereas that wouldn't be the case if he were just a per-diem.

You need to take this discussion to the article page. Drmargi (talk) 03:40, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm serious. Carter's last appearence was in the finale, and that should aknwoledged as well.

No one is disputing that Carter's last appearance was in the final episode, just as no one is describing Carter's appearances as honorary, just the way he was credited (a practice that began with Anthony Edwards' credit earlier in the season, and continued throughout S15 with all the main cast.) But Noah Wyle was a GUEST STAR in the finale season, not main cast -- see the extended discussion on the ER talk page. It was widely publicized in the US at the time that the original cast were all making guest appearances. The infobox is for main cast appearances. You're adding WP:FANCRUFT that doesn't belong there. You keep insisting you're "stating facts" but they're nothing to support then, and that means they're your opinion, nothing more. You can't back anything up with sources, and as without them, you're simply interpreting the contradictory dialogue. You keep saying John Wells said this and that about Carter, but where? Provide a source to which you can add a reference link, and you might have a point. Until then, all we have is your word, and that doesn't meet the criterion for WP:RS.

You've now used three IP's to pursue this issue. Please be aware that IP hopping is not a good idea when you're involved in a discussion. You also need to stop adding back controversial edits until there is consensus to do so. Once an edit has been challenged, you need to stop, discuss and WAIT for consensus. Simply moving this discussion here doesn't give you license to restore a controversial edit that is under discussion. Drmargi (talk) 14:38, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Birth date

I'm watching ER justnow and I noticed that the character actually states his birth date as June 4 1970, this seems to contradict what's already on the page but since it's so exact I think it should override what's already there (simply 1972). The ref is an episode: season 1, ep 20 entitled "Full Moon, Saturday Night". If there are no objections I'll change this soon. Joshua Lee ^{talk softly, please} 21:15, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

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