Talk:Jewish Student Union

Religious Bent

Jewcy is not a blog, but a magazine.Mrnhghts (talk) 04:48, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Staff Members

Claiming that there are many "advisors" who are not NCSY employees is misleading, as public school faculty members serving as advisors are not part of the JSU.Mrnhghts (talk) 04:52, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

• But there are plenty of people in JSU who are NOT part of NCSY, so the way your entry is written it is as if there are a select few who are not part of NCSY when it is more like half and half. Moreover, where is your source if you claim they are mostly part of NCSY? Just because Rabbi Burg is the head of JSU and NCSY doesn't reflect on everyone else. W4uncw (talk) 17:44, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

But there are plenty of people in JSU who are NOT part of NCSY, so the way your entry is written it is as if there are a select few who are not part of NCSY when it is more like half and half. What is your clam of "half and half" based on? Mrnhghts (talk) 20:53, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

• personal perception, just like you. Unless you have a source i will revert back, or we can take out this part all togetherW4uncw (talk) 02:23, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I left "some" until I can prove most regarding NCSY, as I have already proved some, including the top leadership. You should do the same with some for advisors outside NCSY unless you can prove otherwise. You can't have it both ways, particularly since you haven't even proven some, but I accept that "some" is true, because I know of two, which is hardly "many".Mrnhghts (talk) 21:05, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Instead of relying on long quotes from the advisor, why not just reprint the JSU's entire press release about how they are fair and balanced?Mrnhghts (talk) 22:45, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I inserted text and reference to NCSY's parent organization's own explanation of the effects of their public school clubs, and this is being repeatedly removed by nogrudges. Why?Mrnhghts (talk) 23:47, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

The OU's statement of praise for their clubs convincing Jewish public school students to decline their opportunities to attend top-notch colleges http://www.ou.org/pdf/ja/5766/fall66/AStuyvieRemin.pdf contrast with their statement and position that they are not an Orthodox oriented youth group. This is important, verifiable, and notable. Please reinstate.Mrnhghts (talk) 23:55, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• There is nothing that says that it is part of Orthodoxy for people not to go to those colleges. There are plenty of staff members and advisors in NCSY who went to said colleges. This is not relevant to the article at all and very biased in its writing Nogrudges (talk) 23:59, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Depends which part of Orthodoxy. We are talking about a specific ideal for public school students by the Orthodox Union. But we are also addressing the Orthodox content of this Orthodox Union heavy club. We see from this article that there may indeed be some very Orthodox content, if the Orthodox Union itself is to be believed.Mrnhghts (talk) 00:01, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

nogrudges, please stop deleting material that is sourced and relevant. Additioanlly, please explain each sentence you are trying to insert from a JSU employee, and what it shows. Each sentence. Thank you. Please defend here.Mrnhghts (talk) 16:30, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

• FIne i will play it your way.

"'There is no active recruiting to Orthodox programs,' said Katz. He said he has brought in speakers from B’nai B’rith, Hadassah’s Young Judaea youth group, and the Israel-based MASA, which coordinates longterm Israel trips across the ideological spectrum. -This is required to show that they are NOT recruiting from orthodox programs and has had speakers from other groups that are not orthodox. You may not like that it came from a member of the group but that is fine under wikipedia rules. If you want to PROVE that they lied about that, or show an instance where that wasn't true post it under this to show they lied otherwise it says in.

'There is one student here who is very active in USY” — the Conservative movement’s United Synagogue Youth — 'and we use her materials,' said Katz. 'This is a nondenominational group.'

-Again USY VERY not NCSY or orthodox. If it wasn't true where is someone claiming that USY was prevented from being part of it.

'We never bring in Jewish law or Halacha,' Katz said. 'I talk about Jewish concepts, Jewish identity, Jewish life; we try very hard to be sure we are not pushing any agenda.'

"Among the participants at this month’s meetings were Jewish teens who identify as Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform and attend Congregation Etz Chaim and the Synagogue of the Suburban Torah Center (both Orthodox), Temple Emanu-El of West Essex (Reform), Temple Beth Shalom (Conservative), and no synagogue at all. And then there were participants like Joe Aboud and Renee Edwards, non-Jews who are just interested in learning about other cultures.'" -This is from the paper ITSELF the completely unbiased account. If you don't count this are reliable or unbiased then so is the quote you used. This SHOWS that in the group itself there are plenty of people who are not NCSY and just want to learn about other cultures. I think i proved my point Nogrudges (talk) 17:23, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

You are inserting an entire length quote from an employee, and NOT explaining why each sentence, including the listing of underage persons, is necessary.Mrnhghts (talk) 18:49, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

• of course you define it as that. IF you read it most of it is NOT from the employee. Also, there is no prohibition against it being from an employee (you said with OS that the head of OS's views are important...then why not here? ) I explained EVERY sentence because they refute from THREE different sources the viewpoint that NCSY is in charge Nogrudges (talk) 18:52, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

So you are conceding that Rabbi Weinbach's views -- who is the head of the organization, not a mere employee being quoted, are indeedrelevant. Great. Please write your consent that this should be added, and promise to stop deleting that section on the Ohr Somayach, Jerusalem page as you have peen doing.Mrnhghts (talk) 19:15, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

• Thats not what I am saying AT ALL, stop twisting my words. The statements made by the employee here are DIRECTLY on point of whether JSU is part of NCSY or not. If R' Weinbachs statements were on point to someone relevant in the article then fine, but they arent. They are just statements that have nothing to do with the article itself. Nogrudges (talk) 19:19, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm a full-time admin employee of JSU at the National Office in Los Angeles. I'm not Jewish, my payroll comes from JSU, not from NCSY or the OU, and I help coordinate JSU advisors across North America. I can very honestly say that not all JSU advisors are NCSY advisors. In fact, a large number of JSU advisors are members of other organizations such as Chabad, individual kollels, synagogues, other Jewish youth groups that don't operate in public high schools (such as NCSY), or even lay people who are simply good, upstanding Jewish role models, which is the main requirement for being a JSU advisor. Also, to correct an erroneous assumption from the beginning of this discussion, high school faculty teachers who serve as advisors for JSU clubs are considered full JSU advisors and have access to all benefits, training and materials that JSU has to offer to help them facilitate their clubs. We push no agenda other than attempting to help marginally and unaffiliated Jewish teens connect to their culture and to the Jewish community (and some tikkun olam). If you have any questions, I'd be happy to field them. I'm new at Wikipedia-ing though, so please be patient. Thanks! Eurus81 (talk) 18:25, 17 June 2009 (UTC)Eurus81