Talk:Ivan Naumov

Probable Bulgarian falsification

In 1905, Ivan Naumov's band expelled Dimitar Chupovski from Macedonia, because he conducted anti-Bulgarian propaganda.

Who noticed this event in 1905? How do we know that the Bulgarian historian Kosta Cărnušanov didn't make it up in 1992? Bobi987 Ivanov (talk) 01:58, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

The Serbian diplomat Светислав Симић noticed that activity of Chupovski in 1905, cited by Ristovski on p. 34, cited by Carnushanov on p. 81. 212.117.45.70 (talk) 18:32, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Now it makes sense. Both Cărnušanov and Ristovski don't say that Misirkov's believes are "anti-Bulgarian", but that Naumov's party thought it's a "pro-serbian ideology" (which, history has proven, is pretty much nonsense). Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.126.188.253 (talk) 20:05, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

The second reference does not agree with the claim. According to Ristovski, Čupovski was expelled from the town by a local chief of IMRO Ivan Naumov Alyabaka, but because of the intrigues of the local Bulgarian Exarch and his agent Hristo Shaldev. He was the one who LIED. Shaldev was the one who falsely claimed that Čupovski was a Serbian agent in line with the insidious Bulgarian tactic -- that lasts to the present -- to misrepresent any Macedonian national sentiment and action as allegedly being inspired or supported by Serbia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobi987 Ivanov (talk • contribs) 03:10, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

So, the sources are misinterpreted, and no one has an objection to it?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.30.109.189 (talk) 17:42, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

The interpretation of the soruce by Kosta Tzurnushanov is pretty good. Blaže Ristovski is not a reliable source. --StanProg (talk) 13:00, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Why is the interpretation of Kosta Tzurnushanov good and of Blaže Ristovski not? Who noticed this event in 1905? How do we know that the Bulgarian historian Kosta Cărnušanov didn't make it up in 1992? 79.126.169.242 (talk) 14:17, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

StanProg, why do you lie that I vandalize? 85.30.127.197 (talk) 19:11, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Take some time to read the Wikipedia polices, especially Wikipedia:Vandalism. You are removing sourced information, and replacing it with something completely different without providing a reliable source and still leaving the old sources. Blaze Ristovski is philologist and folklorist, without any historical training and without even one book about history of IMRAO (which is the topic of the article). Kosta Tzurnushanov is a historian, has a degree in history, was a member of IMRAO, whole life writing historical books about the IMRAO and the revolutionary movement in the region of Macedonia. --StanProg (talk) 00:36, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Do not vandalize the article. If you want to improve it by adding information supported by reliable sources, you're free to do that. --StanProg (talk) 00:42, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

StanProg, you ARE LYING AGAIN. Even on Bulgarian Wikipedia is written that Blaze Ristovski IS A HISTORIAN, and, as you can see, I haven't edited there, nor anyone else in the near past.

Now, why is the interpretation of Kosta Tzurnushanov good and of Blaže Ristovski not? Who noticed this event in 1905? How do we know that the Bulgarian historian Kosta Cărnušanov didn't make it up in 1992? 79.126.169.43 (talk) 09:22, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

By the way, the Bulgarian historian Kosta Cărnušanov also didn't mention the term anti-Bulgarian propaganda. 79.126.169.43 (talk) 11:59, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

He is categorized as historian, because some of his works as folklorist and writer are related to "History of Literature", which has nothing in common with the topic of the article i.e. he is highly unreliable source. In the source it's written "Misirkovshtina", which is synonym "Anti-Bulgarian propaganda" in the context of the source. "Misirkovshtina" is not a term with which the common wikipedia reader is familiar, that's why it is specified the terms' meaning. If you have a better interpretation we can discuss it, but please do not vandalize the article. --StanProg (talk) 14:26, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Well, if you claim that Ristovski is not a historian (which is ridiculous), then, the reference should not be here. Because, among the other, this source does not confirm the statement in the article, just like the second one doesn't, as well. 79.126.188.253 (talk) 17:25, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

As I said before, the Bulgarian historian Kosta Cărnušanov also didn't mention the term "anti-Bulgarian propaganda", i.e., this source, as well as the other, does not confirm the previous statement in the article (mentioned up here as a lite-motif). He doesn't say that the "misirkovshtina" (Misirkov's believes) is "anti-Bulgarian", but emphasize that it's a "pro-serbian ideology" (which is a much greater nonsense and quite disprovable, and you probably know that Cărnušanov, as a "historian" should not have put it in this study). 79.126.188.253 (talk) 17:52, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

References

Bulgarian versus Macedonian versus Adrianopolitan

The original name of the organization was Balgarski Makedono-Odrinski Revoljucionni Komiteti, (Bulgarian Macedono-Adrianopolitan Revolutionary Committees, BMORC). It later became to be known as the Internal Macedonian Adrianople Revolutionary Organisation (IMARO). Initially members of it could be only Bulgarians, later every Macedonian or Adrianopolitan who desired the autonomy of both areas, regardless of his nationality. Naumov was active in both Macedonia and Adrianopolitan area. 88.203.200.74 (talk) 08:36, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

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Dispute

Jingiby please provide a english academic source that supports the theory that he was a Macedo-Exarchist, thank you. Gurther (talk) 17:22, 11 April 2023 (UTC)