Talk:Interracial marriage/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive the above thread?

NOTE TO THE REGULAR READERS AND EDITORS OF THIS PAGE: The above thread, which has been going on for 2 1/2 months now, is an incomprehensible, intractable boxing match between two IP editors and their socks. It's immense (110,912 characters), it has no obvious purpose in terms of improving the article, and none of the regular editors have joined in the discussion. For all thse reasons, I archived it. After I did, I received thanks from several editors, and no editors complained about it. Netoholic, however -- who, BTW, has never edited this talk page before [1], OR the article itself [2], thought it was "over-archiving" and restored it. I thought that was ridiculous, given the nature of the thread, and I archived it again. Netoholic just restored it once more.

So, now it's up to the regular editors of this page. Should this irrelevant, immaterial, NOTAFORUM mess of a thread be kept on the talk page, merely because the participants get their jollies by crapping on each other, or should it be archived and put this page, and us, out of our misery? Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:19, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

• Archive, as you say, incomprehensible. --John B123 (talk) 21:09, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

• I don't mind either way. I think it's okay to delete it except for the part I wrote yesterday.(I tried to describe it as briefly as possible.) Blocked users constantly interrupted. The disaster was caused by blocked users. However, the current version of this document is preserved as intended by the blocked user.I suggest that the contributions of blocked users be deleted as well in this article.Bablos939 (talk) 10:59, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Bablos939, you should have notified the other users that are against your racist and anti-Chinese sentiments. People are even discussing about you in different forum sites after finding how how biased you are towards Chinese. There's actually a rule that says Wikipedia: Don't lie. Only 1 out of 6 you accused is a sock ( that Watersinfalls ). Of those you accused; Bamnamu and the other IPs, including myself are proven to be unrelated to socks, yet you continue to lie all of them being blocked. I also agree with Beyond My Ken and John B123 about this. 70.77.154.228 (talk) 20:00, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Benefits section

Questionable section. Mixed race children have health issues in Africa and require special diet [3]. Aocdnw (talk) 10:10, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Questionable article you linked here, and definitely not a source! The column talks about stigmatization faced by some Afro-Chinese children, not health issues. It is also often itself racist, up to its title. Unwanted seeds, really? Chinese workers [...] sow their seeds in African soil by fathering unwanted children, what a wonderful level we have here. Oh, I see you've been blocked. Place Clichy (talk) 10:26, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Move/merge discussion at Talk:Miscegenation

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Miscegenation regarding moving content from that article to several new articles, and merging out some of the rest. The current article has >150 kB prose. - LaTeeDa (talk) 16:48, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

This document contains false information about Chinese marriage.

related to : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Dmartin969#Hello_I'd_like_to_ask_for_your_advice.

related to : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Rajmaan/Archive#01_June_2020

related to : https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Interracial_marriage&type=revision&diff=954358702&oldid=951760846

related to : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1039#Blocked_users_are_constantly_attacking_me_by_IP.

The manager said that the blocked user's lies were can be deleted. This debate is also sustainable if normal users participate. If a doll of a blocked user appears, I'll report it right away. The blocked user constantly attacked me in an illegal way. His goal is to hope that the lies in this document will be maintained now.

• The current document was restored by a blocked user 'Buzinezz '. Of course it should be deleted.

• The current document violates the neutral point of view.

• The current version of this document is the work of a blocked user.Blocked users have consistently hampered this debate.

• The current version of this Article is full of false statements from blocked users.:

To inflame public, just one word can do it. But to refute it, numerous documents and evidences are required.-Paul Joseph Goebbels- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bablos939 (talk • contribs) 14:36, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

(A)Latin America

In South America, although the number of Chinese international marriages is very small, blocked users have exaggerated and overstated. (A)-1 Cuba 'There is anecdotal evidence that Chinese men in Cuba and Peru married or had sexual relationships with white,black,mulatto and Indian women' Alien Nation: Chinese Migration in the Americas from the Coolie Era Through ISBN 978 1 4696 1340 6 https://books.google.co.kr/books?id=ch8VBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA82&dq=indian+coolie+woman+chinese+men&redir_esc=y&hl=ko#v=onepage&q=indian%20coolie%20woman%20chinese%20men&f=false

(A)-2 Peru 'the men(Chinese) had almost no contact with local women in Peru.' The Chinese in Latin America and the Caribbean https://books.google.co.kr/books?id=xrGShVU6VrgC&pg=PA143&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

(A)-3 Central Trinidad 'Between 1853 and 1866, 2048 Chinese labourers arrived to work on the estates mainly in Central Trinidad, while between 1846-1859 some 1300 Portuguese labourers were recruited from the archipelago of Madeira off the Atlantic coast of North Africa (Ferreira 1994, 17).' http://www.cambridgescholars.com/download/sample/61376

(A)-4 Guyana There are only six cases.

In Guyana, Marriages between Indian women and Chinese men in 1892 numbered only six as reported by Immigration Agent Gladwin. https://books.google.co.kr/books?id=e-YYAAAAYAAJ&dq=In+1892,+Immigration+Agent+Gladwin+reported+just+six+marriages+between+Chinese+men+and+Indian+women.&q=1892+six+marriages&redir_esc=y&hl=ko

(A)-5 Mexico We don't know if source really makes that argument. It's mostly false.

(A)-6 Costa Rica It's mostly false. This source (http://www.flavorandfortune.com/dataaccess/article.php?ID=221) is unreliable. This is not academic material.

(A)-7 Jamaica Blocked users tell completely absurd lies. 'Thousands of Chinese men (mostly Hakka) and Indian men married local Jamaican women. The study "Y-chromosomal diversity in Haiti and Jamaica: Contrasting levels of sex-biased gene flow" shows the paternal Chinese haplogroup O-M175 at a frequency of 3.8% in local Jamaicans ( non-Chinese Jamaicans) including the Indian H-M69 (0.6%) and L-M20 (0.6%) in local Jamaicans.[177] Among the country's most notable Afro-Asians are reggae singers Sean Paul, Tami Chynn and Diana King.' This source doesn't say that. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ajpa.22090

These false information must be deleted.Bablos939 (talk) 13:54, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

(B)China

Most of the international marriages of Chinese people take place between Chinese women and foreign men (B)-1 Tang Dynasty

Muslim arrivals in China during the Tang and Song Dynasties were from all accounts male. It is hard to find evidence of females coming with them.// many of them had married Chinese women. https://books.google.co.kr/books?id=jV9_YvgUmpsC&pg=PA74&redir_esc=y&hl=ko#v=onepage&q=a%20many%20them%20had%20married%20chinese&f=false

(B)-2 Song Dynasty

During the Song Dynasty , many Chinese women (some of noble origin) married foreign merchants. https://books.google.co.kr/books?id=jV9_YvgUmpsC&pg=PA74&redir_esc=y&hl=ko#v=onepage&q=a%20many%20them%20had%20married%20chinese&f=false

(B)-3 Yuan Dynasty The great majority of Muslims who came to the East during the Yuan Dynasty were male ,only a few from the upper-class stratum brought their familiy members with them. so it was quite common for a Muslim to marry a Chinese wife. https://books.google.co.kr/books?id=jV9_YvgUmpsC&pg=PA74&redir_esc=y&hl=ko#v=onepage&q=a%20many%20them%20had%20married%20chinese&f=false

(B)-4 Ming Dynasty

'Most incomer were Han women who married Hui men.'

https://books.google.co.kr/books?id=jV9_YvgUmpsC&pg=PA74&redir_esc=y&hl=ko#v=onepage&q=a%20many%20them%20had%20married%20chinese&f=false https://books.google.co.kr/books?id=jV9_YvgUmpsC&pg=PA74&redir_esc=y&hl=ko#v=onepage&q=a%20many%20them%20had%20married%20chinese&f=false https://books.google.co.kr/books?id=BwuSpFiOFfYC&pg=PA31&redir_esc=y&hl=ko#v=onepage&q&f=false

(B)-5 People's Republic of China

According to Sociologist Deng Weizhi's research,90% of Chinese international marriages consist of Chinese wives and foreign husbands, and only less than 10% involve Chinese husbands with foreign wives "International marriage in China". Liberation Daily News (Deng Weizhi). 2009.

• 'Before 2008, there were over 300,000 marriages between foreigners (other race) and Chinese.'

S:'Table 1.1 Comparison of Marriages between Chinese and Foreigners (C-F), Chinese and Oversea Chinese (C-OC), and Chinese and Compatriots from Hong Kong, Taiwan & Macau (C-HTM). In 1979-1989 and 1978-2008' S:'Figure 2. Types of Chinese-foreign marriages registered in mainland China, 1979–2010 Sources: ZRGM, Shewai hunyin dengji qingkuang 1979–1981; ZRGM, Sheji huaqiao, Gang Ao Tai tongbao, waiji huaren, waiguoren de hunyin 1982; ZRGM, Zai hunyin dengji zhong: Shewai ji huaqiao, Gang Ao Tai tongbao hunyin qingkuang 1983–1984; ZRGM, Shewai ji huaqiao, Gang Ao Tai tongbao hunyin 1987–1988; ZRGM, Shewai ji huaqiao, Gang Ao Tai tongbao hunyin dengji qingkuang 1990–1999; and ZRGM, Jiehun dengji qingkuang, jiehun dengji fuwu 2000–2011. Data for 1985 and 1986 are not available.'

• 'Since 2008, marriages between mainland Chinese women and men from other parts of the world have become the most popular type of Chinese-foreign marriage.'

Among all international marriages, over 80-90% of Chinese women and foreign men are married.

S: ZRGM, Shewai hunyin dengji qingkuang 1979–1981; ZRGM, Sheji huaqiao, Gang Ao Tai tongbao, waiji huaren, waiguoren de hunyin 1982; ZRGM, Zai hunyin dengji zhong: Shewai ji huaqiao, Gang Ao Tai tongbao hunyin qingkuang 1983–1984; ZRGM, Shewai ji huaqiao, Gang Ao Tai tongbao hunyin 1987–1988; ZRGM, Shewai ji huaqiao, Gang Ao Tai tongbao hunyin dengji qingkuang 1990–1999; ZRGM, Jiehun dengji qingkuang, jiehun dengji fuwu 2000–2011; and Zhonghua quanguo funü lianhedi funü yanjiusuo, Shaanxi sheng funü lianhehui yanjiushi, 1986–1988 nian guonei nüxing gongmin tong waiguoren ji huaqiao, Gang Ao Tai tongbao dengji jiehun renshu, 344

http://rozenbergquarterly.com/the-history-and-context-of-chinese-western-intercultural-marriage-in-modern-and-contemporary-china-from-1840-to-the-21st-century/ http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.915.6769&rep=rep1&type=pdf

(B)-6 Sogdian ?? Iranian women ???

'The few documented pairings of Chinese male owners with young Sogdian girls raise the question how often Sogdian and Chinese families intermarried. The historical record is largely silent on this topic, but Rong Xinjiang has found throughout Tang-dynasty China a total of twenty-one recorded marriages in the seventh century in which one partner was Sogdian, and in eighteen cases, the spouse is also Sogdian. The only exceptions are very high-ranking Sogdian officials who married Chinese wives. 67 He concludes that most Sogdian men took Sogdian wives, and we may surmise that the pairings between Chinese men and Sogdian women were usually between a Chinese male master and a Sogdian female slave.' http://history.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/hansen-silk-road-trade.pdf This sentence is the only academic material.Other source are unreliable.The academic evidence is unclear. Also Sogdian men also married Chinese women. There is only anecdotal evidence. Blocked users distorted the source.

'Blocked users have thoroughly deleted marriages between Chinese women and foreign men.On the other hand, he falsely exaggerated the marriage between Chinese men and foreign women.Bablos939 (talk) 14:28, 11 June 2020 (UTC) Bablos939 (talk) 13:47, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree with you. having reviewed the data what he claimed, found that he created a new uncertain fact to fit for his taste.

At the same time, he deleted any materials which were unfavorable to his country.116.123.12.44 (talk) 08:46, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

This is true, this page feels very vandalized, Chinese men are referred to an extreme amount of times, having this page been edited in their favor, while a lot these accurate sources are being deleted who frame Chinese women with marring outside their race, this page needs a cleanup -- Toby Mitches (talk) 07:23, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

I agree with you too. This page needs to be cleaned. Maybe this page is a novel Vandals is working on.220.117.225.165 (talk) 05:46, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for giving us a lot of course. We have to delete the false information and restore the real information.Bablos939 (talk) 12:12, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

response to Bablos939

WHAT A MESSY DISCUSSION. IS IT NECCESARILY TO HAVE EVERTYHING UNDERLINED? Italic text

Bablos939 is at again. (Personal attack removed)

Take to WP:ANI or WP:SPI; this page is for discussing improvements to the article

There has been a huge discussion previously on the interracial marriage of Chinese men/women with bablos939 by 5-6 others against Bablos939 who he accused all to be sockpuppet but none except one was. And Bablos939 was also suspected of being a sockpuppet because of his link Korean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Interracial_marriage/Archive_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Interracial_marriage/Archive_3 Bablos939 is known for being anti-Chinese, anti-Chinese men especially and always focus on Chinese edits. ( I decided to make a wikipedia account just for this mess ) 'FIRSTABLE', before we go any further. All 3 IP address shows South Korean link and shows strong signs of sock-puppetry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signs_of_sockpuppetry#Casting_additional_votes IP address of 116.123.12.44 shows it's from Seoul city of South Korea IP address 220.117.225.165 also shows it's from Seoul city of South Korea ( if you search the IP with another it shows Seongnam a satellite city of Seoul ) Bablos939 also shows that he from South Korea based on the fact that he has Korean google translation. All 3 of them shows a clear Korean link and are clearly casting addition votes to help eachother to create a fake concesus agreement. An Ip address sockpuppet investigation should be done to see if all 3 are related if this continues. Because not only are they all from South Korea , they are all basically from the same city.

SECOND, (Personal attack removed) Historically there was indeed massive number of Southern Chinese coolies males that intermarried with females of Latin America of different and this is confirmed by government statistic of Peru, Cuba and Latin America ect shows there's Millions of mixed Chinese descendants. Bablos939 ignores every other answers that was already given here and cherrypick a quote without reading the entire sources. Korean men historically never had any adventure or male worked as slave labours overseas and intermarried with females

The wikipedia didn't even include 10,000 of Russian women married to Chinese men in 2003 research or 1,000 Manchus women married to Chinese men

As for Chinese women I don't deny they intermarried a lot .For example there's record that both Chinese women and Korean were historically married to neighboring conquerers invaders but it could really large numbers were raped and used as sexual slaves. Both of them suffered more than anyone when conquered in the past although Chinese were also able to conquer foreign invaders and as result marry foreign female invaders including many women of foreign regions.

The source Bablos939 uses of Chinese females to foreign nationals men, actually if you read the link clearly it says most of the marriages were with males from Hong Kong and Taiwan. Not men of other ethnicity. Obviously males from Hong Kong and Taiwan are also ethnic Chinese but with different nationality. This is not interracial marriage and besides Chinese women and Korean women are racially the same people, in everywhere they go they get treated the same. Even when Chinese suffers racism for Covid, the Koreans daily news says Koreans citizens also say suffer racism, that's because non-Asians can never distinguish them. When Chinese mothers are insulted the same goes for Korean mothers are insulted, same with other Asians. You only need to see hollywood that Korean actress plays the role of Chinese roles and Chinese actress plays the role of Korean role. So I really don't understand why 3 Korean IP (or they are same person) keep targeting Chinese people when we all know

Racially/Genetically Koreans are the same as Chinese. If look at haplogroup DNA both of them are predominant Haplogroup O-M175, culturally similar, same beliefs, same dress and even used the same writing historically. By genetics Koreans are 2-3 times closer to Chinese/Japanese than to Mongolians who are closer to Buryats, Tuvans

THIS IS INFORMATION FROM THE PREVIOUS DISCUSSION THAT REFUTED ALL BABLOS939 CLAIMS. I ALSO ADDED NEWLY ADDED SOURCES

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Interracial_marriage/Archive_2

Bablos939, it's no wonder this whole discussion is so long. Your not trying to change 1 thing but basically trying to change like 10-20 stuff, almost every information on Chinese interracial marriages. Out of all the 6 accounts/IP you accused only 1 was a sockpuppet yet you keep repeating same lies that all of them are socks. As long as I'm here, there's no way I will let you ignore Korean women because that is racist. I already said when we talk it won't be just about Chinese men foreign women and vice versa but also Korean women and foreign man and others. I have no interest in you repeating the same thing but I will answer all of them.

There are massive number marriages of Chinese men with South American women, Carribean women, Black women, Russian women and significant with muslim women. On the hand there is a massive number of marriages of Korean women with Mongolian, Uyghur men, Turkic men, Muslim men, Chinese men.During the same era, another young Chinese Emperor Wang Zongyan who was only 20 years old when he ascended the throne, had a Persian woman as his concubine, Li Shunxian

(None of these info had been edited) Chinese men with foreign women ( Russian women, Manchu women, South America women , Carribean women, Muslim women )

Extended content

Chinese men Russian women 10,000+ marriages of Chinese men, Russian women (Tens of thousands could even mean 20,000-30,000 or more) https://www.pravdareport.com/society/2688-family/ Quote " In addition, as researches held by Olga Makhovskaya reveal, marriages between Chinese men and Russian women are also very successful. “There are tens of thousands of such marriages in Russia's Primorye region in the Far East. Chinese men are hard-working, they don't abuse in alcohol drinking and bring their wages home. In a word, they have lots of advantages by contrast with Russian men." It is sad, but the researches don't mention for whom Russian men suit wonderfully. " Chinese men Manchu women ' 'https://books.google.com/books?id=QXHbhsfaJAYC&pg=PA148 https://books.google.com/books?id=ORBmFSFcJKoC&pg=PA79' Quote "mass marriage of Han Chinese officers and officials to Manchu women numbering 1,000 couples was arranged by Prince Yoto 岳托 (Prince Keqin) and Hongtaiji in 1632 to promote harmony between the two ethnic groups. " Chinese men with South American women ( Peruvian, Cuban, Mexico ) There is anecdotal evidence, there is also historical records, physical descendants, genetic evidence, government statistics which are millions more reliable than your mere cherrypicked text from google book. Chinese men peruvian women So many Peruvian authors/researcher and Peruvian government statistic shows there 15-20% of Peruvian citizens may have some Chinese ancestry and you are here claiming only a few marriages ? The Chinese Overseas, Volume 1 edited by Hong Liu https://books.google.com/books?id=VV9khhBOrlUC&pg=PA242 Quote Pervuvian law did not forbid interracial marriage. There is no prevailing racist attitude against intermarriage between the Chinese and non-Chinese in Peru, so the number of interracial marriages is quite large. The number of children born of such marriages estimated by my informants to be more than 180,000. Half of that number is Lima, with the ration between Chinese mestizo and the full-blooded Chinese at 90,000 to 15,000, or six to one https://www.ned.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Chapter3-Sharp-Power-Rising-Authoritarian-Influence-Peru.pdf Quote "The first are those who maintain Chinese citizenship and, therefore, have stronger, more direct ties to China; this group includes the descendants of the workers of Cantonese origin who migrated to Peru after 1849, as well as the so-called new migrants—mostly from Fujian province—who have been flowing into the country since the 1980s. The second group are Peruvian citizens born in the countrywith mixed Peruvian-Chinese ancestry, locally known as Tusan.7 The Tusan are thought to be quite numerous: Up to 2.5 million people, or 8 percent of Peru’s population of 31 million may have Chinese ancestry, according to estimates—about whichthere is still much debate.8" https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/chinese-laborers-peru-lima-pyramid "Found: The Remains of Chinese Laborers Interred on a Peruvian Pyramid. In the 19th century, 100,000 indentured laborers came to Peru from China.BY SARAH LASKOW AUGUST 25, 2017" Quote "today 15 percent of people in the country can trace their ancestry back to Chinese and other Asian migrants from the 19th century" Chinese men Cuban women Many of the Chinese immigrants that remain have intermarried with white, black, and mulatto populations, and their children are of mixed races3. Once an island with thousands of people of Chinese descent, Cuba’s Chinese population and the Havana Chinatown is not as lively as it once was. https://www.panoramas.pitt.edu/health-and-society/chinatown-peru-brief-look-chinese-diaspora-latin-america . May 15, 2008. claimed 114,240 Chinese-Cuban coolies with only 300 pure This is government statistics from world fact book https://www.documentjournal.com/2019/07/barrio-chino-chinese-cubans-keep-culture-alive-in-havana/ Quote "Today, there are only 150 Chinese-born residents living in the Latin country, but somewhere around 114,000 Cubans with mixed Chinese" Chinese men Mexican women Crossing Boundaries, Claiming a Homeland: The Mexican Chinese Transpacific Journey to Becoming Mexican, 1930s––1960s Julia Maríía Schiavone Camacho Pacific Historical Review (2009) 78 (4): 545–577. https://online.ucpress.edu/phr/article/78/4/545/78937/Crossing-Boundaries-Claiming-a-Homeland- Quote "This article follows Mexican Chinese families from Mexico, across the Mexican-U.S. border, to China, and back to Mexico. Settling in northern Mexico in the nineteenth century, Chinese formed multiple ties with Mexicans. An anti-Chinese movement emerged during the Mexican Revolution and peaked during the Great Depression. The Mexican government deported several thousand Chinese men and their Mexican-origin families from Sonora and neighboring Sinaloa, some directly to China and others to the United States, whose immigration agents also deported the families to China. They arrived in Guangdong (Canton) Province but eventually congregated in Macau where they forged a coherent Mexican Chinese enclave. Developing a strategic Mexican nationalism, they appealed for repatriation. The Mexican Chinese "became Mexican" only after authorities compelled them to struggle for years from abroad for the inclusion of their mixed-race families in the nation. They became diasporic citizens and fashioned hybrid identities to survive in Mexico and China." Chinese men Costa Rican women Costa Rica: A Global Studies Handbook By Meg Tyler Mitchell, Margaret Tyler Mitchell, Scott Pentzer https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0edCL8TY08gC&pg=PA249 Quote Most Chinese immigrants since then have been Cantonese, but in the last decades of the 20th century, a number of immigrants have alse come from Taiwan. Many men came alone to work and married Costa Rican women and speak Cantonese http://www.flavorandfortune.com/dataaccess/article.php? Quote The Chinese originated from the Cantonese male migrants. Pure Chinese make up only 1% of the Costa Rican population, but according to Jacqueline M. Newman, as close to 10% of the people in Costa Rica are Chinese, if we count the people who are Chinese, married to a Chinese person, or of mixed Chinese descent. Chinese men with Carribean women (Guyana, Jamaican, Trinidad ) Chinese men have been in Guyana since 1853, and you here only talking about a single year recorded cases of 6 marriages in 1892. What makes you think that Chinese men only married in 1892 out of it's 150 years in Guyana ? Cultural Power, Resistance, and Pluralism: Colonial Guyana, 1838-1900 By Brian L. Moore https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cx_9-X_-smoC&pg=PA272 Quote "destiny resided in Guyana; and also as Creole women began to consider Chinese men desirable 'marriage' partners" Social Life in the Caribbean, 1838-1938. By Bridget Brereton https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=f03rv7gJCBgC&pg=PA12 Quote Like the Portugese, many Chinese men (for few women came ) married Creoles. https://huf.us/1805345 Quote The 1943 census showed 12,394 Chinese residing in Jamaica. These were divided into three categories by the census, namely "China-born" (2,818), "local-born" (4,061), and "Chinese coloured" (5,515), the latter referring to multiracial people of mixed African and Chinese descent. Chinese men Muslim women ( Persian women, Sogdian women, Iranian women, Arab women, Turkic women ) You rely on the opinion of Maria Jaschok, a book author that didn't even knew the meaning of what Pusaman and had no idea if they were Persian women. She uses realiable sources on recorded cased of Chinese men married to Persian women , Arab women including Chinese women. The only proplem is her assumption on numbers and statistics claiming many marriage, and another assumption is claiming no muslim women migrated to China, or that they were very few. EVIDENCE: SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF MUSLIM WOMEN MIGRATED TO CHINA Firstable present evidence that Muslim women were in China in significant number. Sogdian, Persian, Arab women were found in Tang dynasty, Southern Han, Song dynasty from 10-12th century especially. Investment and Employment Opportunities in China By Jeffrey Yi-Lin Forrest, Tao Lixin https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4m1YBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA67 Quote Over time, the demographics of Guangdong slowly shifted with more Han Chinese and some Persian women massively migrating into the regions from the north during periods of political turmoil and nomadic incursions. Memoirs of the Research Department Quote At the foreign quarter , there lited of course many foreign women , and they were called by the Chinese Po - ssu - fu . Rong, Xinjiang, "New light on Sogdian Colonies along the Silk Road In Tang poetry Sogdian girls also frequently appear as serving maids in the taverns and inns of the capital Chang'an. The Silk Road Encyclopedia https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=UgOwDAAAQBAJ&pg=PT763 Persian women who worked at publich houses in Chang'an during the Tang dynasty. A large number of Persian women were hired to entertain guests...... these women were as Huji.....Huji appear a suprising number of times in the work of Li Bai and other poets from Tang dynasty" Walter Joseph Fischel (1951). Semitic and Oriental studies: a volume presented to William Popper, professor of Semitic languages, emeritus, on the occasion of his seventy-fifth birthday, October 29, 1949. Volume 11 of University of California publications in Semitic philology. University of California Press. p. 407. Retrieved January 4, 2012. Quote "At least from the tenth to the twelfth century, Persian women were to be found in Canton, in the former period observed in the harem of Liu Chang of Southern Han,” and in the latter seen as typically wearing great numbers of earrings and cursed with quarrelsome dispositions ..." Persians women, Turkic women, Korean women were captured by Chinese and sold as slaves for hot commity Daily Life in Traditional China: The Tang Dynasty By Charles D. Benn https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=emPuDu97qbkC&pg=PA39 Quote Persians captured by the Chinese pirates in the southeast; and Korean women, whose beauty made them a hot commodity in the housholds of the well-to-do. EVIDENCE: SIGINFICANT RECORDED NUMBER MARRIAGES OF CHINESE MEN MUSLIM WOMEN MARRIAGES ( Song dynasty, Southern Han, Tang dynasty ) https://books.google.com/books?id=jV9_YvgUmpsC&pg=PA74&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false (Li 8c Feng) Quote "Song times: 'In the times of Wudai (907—960) the emperors preferred to marry Persian women, and the Song Dynasty official families liked to marry women from Dashi [Arabia]198529)." https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gc_3IXkwG3QC&pg=PA251 Women Shall Not Rule: Imperial Wives and Concubines in China from Han to Liao By Keith McMahon Quote "Liu Chang's favorite consort was a Persian woman, with whom he practiced orgiastic games. “Liu Chang indulged himself " University of Hawaii at Manoa. Center for Chinese Studies (2007). China Review International, Volume 14. Quote During the same era, another young Chinese Emperor Wang Zongyan who was only 20 years old when he ascended the throne, had married a Persian woman as his concubine, Li Shunxian Quote "Of the Han Chinese Li family in Quanzhou, Li Nu, the son of Li Lu, visited Hormuz in Persia in 1376, married a Persian or an Arab woman, and brought her back to Quanzhou. He then converted to Islam. Li Nu was the ancestor of the Ming Dynasty reformer Li Chih. The Wiley Blackwell Companion to Zoroastrianism Michael Stausberg, Yuhan Sohrab-Dinshaw Vevaina https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YT-kBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA150 Quote Before the An Lushan rebellion (756-763). Sogdian-Chinese intermarriages were were rare (Rong 2001: 132-135). After the rebellion, however, Sogdian-Chinese marriages became more and more common and Sogdians gradually lost their ethnic identities and became Sinicized (Chen 2001: 195-20 ) Les sogdiens en Chine Quote " The only exceptions are very high-ranking Sogdian officials who married Chinese wives.and we may surmise that the pairings between Chinese men and Sogdian women " Quote "Sogdian slave girls and their Chinese male owners made up the majority of Sogdian female-Chinese male pairings" and by the way many Sogdians were muslims Source: Bukhara, the Eastern Dome of Islam: Urban Development, Urban Space ... https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=sVgtKQdJrTMC&pg=PA18 "Soon after this many of the Sogdians, who had converted in masses to Islam, supported the Abbasid "revolution- " ( from 7th century ) WITH GENETIC EVIDENCE Haplogroup W (mtDNA) is a maternal marker common common in west Asian females and Iranian females population. Haplogroup W is believed to have originated around 23,900 years ago in Western Asia. You can see is prevalent in Persia (not Afghanistan) Evidence of Chinese men marriage to Muslim women https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/19/10/1737/1258999 " 69 healthy and maternally unrelated Cantonese from southern China, Guangdong Province," "The latter all fall into the West Eurasian haplogroups JT, HV, U, W, X, and N1. " https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC384943/ "Two mtDNAs, one sampled in Yunnan and the other in Liaoning, are regarded as resulting from admixture from western Eurasia (via central Asia), as they belong to the west Eurasian haplogroups HV and T1 " Based on these evidence I think there is nothing wrong to say Chinese married Persian women in Guangzhou. Chinese women with muslim men Only thing I agree is 14th century during the Ming dynasty Why I agree ? Because there is historical record, genetic descendants, physical descendants such as the Hui Chineseto prove it. Even though most Hui Chinese paternal and maternal are Han Chinese men/women it shows more muslim men married than muslim women I do not agree with many muslim men married with Chinese women during the Tang dynasty and Song dynasty, or even Yuan dynasty and only a few Muslim women migrated. 1) That is 100% wrong, many records shows muslim women were numerous, significant present 2) DNA shows muslim descendants also there's signficant western maternal DNA 3) Not a single muslim descendants in Canton that trace back to Tang/Song dynasty unlike the Hui Chinese which are in western China. So I agree with what is currently edited here unless you can prove me wrong. The Golden Peaches of Samarkand: A Study of T'ang Exotics By Edward H. Schafer https://books.google.com/books?id=jqAGIL02BWQC&pg=PA22 Quote Intermarriage was initially discouraged by the Tang Dynasty. In 836 Lu Chun was appointed as governor of Canton, and was disgusted to find the Chinese living with foreigners and intermarrying. Lu enforced separation, banned interracial marriages, and made it illegal for foreigners to own property. Lu Chun believed his principles were just and upright.The 836 law specifically banned Chinese from forming relationships with "dark peoples" or "people of colour", which was used to describe foreigners, such as "Iranians, Sogdians, Arabs, Indians, Malays, Sumatrans", among others. GENETIC EVIDENCE SHOWS HUI CHINESE HAVE ANCESTRY OF MUSLIM FROM BOTH SIDE. 7 out of 100 Hui Chinese can have Caucasian maternal ancestry Source.. Different Matrilineal Contributions to Genetic Structure of Ethnic Groups in the Silk Road Region in China https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/21/12/2265/1071048 Quote "western Eurasian-specific haplogroup frequency was observed, with the highest frequency present in Uygur (42.6%) and Uzbek (41.4%) samples, followed by Kazak (30.2%), Mongolian (14.3%), and Hui (6.7%)." 30 out of 100 Hui Chinese can have Caucasian paternal ancestry The massive assimilation of indigenous East Asian populations in the origin of Muslim Hui people inferred from paternal Y chromosome https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ajpa.23823 Quote "Co‐analyzed with published worldwide populations, our results suggest the origin of Hui people has involved massive assimilation of indigenous East Asians with about 70% in total of the paternal ancestry could be traced back to East Asia and the left 30% to various regions in West Eurasia." Quote "The genetic structure of the extant Hui populations was primarily shaped by the indigenous East Asian populations as they contribute the majority part of the paternal lineages of Hui people. The West Eurasian admixture was probably a sex‐biased male‐driven process since we have not found such a high proportion of West Eurasian gene flow on autosomal STRs and maternal mtDNA" https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rsos.190358 Quote "According to historical records, ethnic Hui in China obtained substantial genetic components from western Eurasian populations during their Islamization. However, some scholars believed that the ancestry of Hui people were native Chinese populations." 90% of Chinese international marriages consist of Chinese wives and foreign husbands, Chinese wives and foreign husbands include apparently mostly from Hong Kong husbands and Taiwan husbands, Singaporean husbands. https://asiatimes.com/2019/03/hk-china-cross-border-marriages-increasing/ The most common type of Chinese-foreign marriage registered in mainland China until the late 2000s was between a mainland Chinese woman and a man from Hong Kong, Macao or Taiwan. Nearly 8,000 people from Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan married mainland Chinese citizens in 1979. That figure peaked at slightly more than 48,000 in 2003. However, the number of such marriages has been declining, on average, since then. Fewer than 18,000 people from Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan married mainland Chinese citizens in 2010, which is lower than the number of marriages involving ‘foreign nationals’. KOREAN WOMEN FOREIGN MEN MARRIAGES Korean women with foreign men ( Mongols, Chinese soldiers, Manchu soldiers, emperors Muslim, Turkic ) Kyung Moon Hwang is a Korean https://books.google.com/books?id=B7WrDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT64 https://books.google.com/books?id=Rjy7DQAAQBAJ&pg=PA47 Kyung Moon Hwang says the official number of Korean women in the Yuan is actually a gross underestimation and there were many more. Chinese soldiers and Korean women In North Korea: an American travels through an imprisoned nation. Nanchu, Xing Hang. McFarland, 2003 - History - 197 pages https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=VXlTBQAAQBAJ&pg=PT23 Quote " especially after the Korean War, thousands of Chinese Volunteer soldiers were ordered to stay behind and marry the North Korean women in order to increase the population. " Qing soldiers and Korean women Women in Korean History 한국 역사 속의 여성들 Pae-yong Yi Ewha Womans University Press, 2008 - Korea - 319 pages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qing_invasion_of_Joseon Many Korean women were kidnapped and were raped at the hand of the Qing forces, and as a result were unwelcomed by their families even if they were released by the Qing after being ransomed. In 1648 Joseon was forced to provide several of their royal princesses as concubines to the Qing regent Prince Dorgon. Empire's Twilight: Northeast Asia Under the Mongols By David M. Robinson https://books.google.com/books?id=PDjWpqU55eMC&pg=PA53 Quote "Late in the thirteenth century, Qubilai and other Mongol aristocrats began to demand women from elite Koryo families as wives and consorts. Despite initial efforts to avoid these demands, the Korean government eventually responded by establishing government bureaus to organize and control the flow of Koryo women to the Mongol empire." "What had begun as the seizure of women as war booty evolved into a complex system of formal tribute between the ruling houses of Koryo and the Mongol Empire. Yuan envoys regularly traveled to Koryo to secure women on behalf of the emperor, who often redistributed them as gifts to leading ministers. Yuan envoys and Yuan officials stationed in Koryo also requested Koryo brides for themselves." MASSIVE NUMBER OF KOREAN WOMEN WITH FOREIGN MEN NOT JUST 1,500 "The number of Koryo women in Daidu increased steadily over the late thirteenth and first half of the fourteenth centuries. Nearly 1,500 Koryo tribute women are noted in official Yuan and Koryo court annals. The actual number of women was certainly much higher since elite Koryo women nearly always traveled with their own maids and servants. Lesser-known women were not deemed sufficienty significant to merit mention in official records. Many Koreans married their womenfolk to members of the Yuan elite as a way to secure official posts and advance family interests." Korean women with Mongolian men, Uyghur men, Muslim men Quote Mongolian, Muslim, and Uyghur elites appreciated Koryo beauties, and the acquisition of Korean concubines became something of a fad. As one fourteenth-century Chinese observer familiar with the court in Daidu observed: Daily Life in Traditional China: The Tang Dynasty By Charles D. Benn https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=emPuDu97qbkC&pg=PA39 Quote " Persians captured by the Chinese pirates in the southeast; and Korean women, whose beauty made them a hot commodity in the housholds of the well-to-do." References

Vamlos (talk) 15:48, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

I was fed up with (Personal attack removed), so I looked for the cause.

https://www.state.gov/reports/2019-trafficking-in-persons-report-2/republic-of-korea/ Numerous Chinese women have been sold to Korean men and U.S. soldiers. http://news.sina.com.cn/w/2006-09-13/112610009032s.shtml According to the data, many Chinese women seem to prefer Korean men. https://www.secretchina.com/news/gb/2011/12/07/432007.html http://m.90hc.com/shehui/zhenqing/165682.html Perhaps hundreds of thousands of Chinese women are marrying Korean men. http://www.lovehhy.net/html/AUTO/DZH/10666.htm http://www.lovehhy.net/html/AUTO/DZH/10666.htm Mongolians owned most of the Chinese women. (Personal attack removed)I'm not interested in your fight. If you have any objections, go to the Chinese media or the Korean people and complain. Don't disturb the debate.Bablos939 (talk) 10:31, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Vamlos (talk) sorry but you look to be in the wrong here, all your links do state that some people have Chinese ancestry like you claim, however it doesn't ever say that its 'Chinese men', it only says 'Chinese people' these 'people' could all be females and you just claim them to be men without any proof, when you say 'Chinese men and ____ women' it should be 'Chinese people and ____ people' you are spreading misinformation when claiming only Chinese men are the ones marring foreigners, Bablos939 might be racist as you claim, or they might not be racist, but either way, this is editing abuse and it can get you in serious trouble. -- Toby Mitches (talk) 01:00, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

He has created a different ID and is repeating the lie.[[4]] Most of the data he presented is groundless and even distorted. (Personal attack removed) We must report him quickly and normalize the editing.Bablos939 (talk) 10:31, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Bablos939, I agree with every point you made, however the links you proved were a little unnecessary, there was no need to bring up women being sold in the 'interracial marriage' wiki, also I agree with your points that Vamlos doesn't look to be here to edit wiki for the right reasons, but you should try to act a little more civil, I can agree that this is a tough argument and even at times I've acted uncivil, but try your best to no attack people. -- Toby Mitches (talk) 14:10, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

REPLY TO Toby Mitches'

Take it to WP:ANI or WP:SPI, this page is for discussing improvements to the article.

I was supposed to reply to Toby Mitches but Bablos939 edited by distorted the commentary by sandwiching the reply of Toby Mitches and saying offensive things towards Chinese women which is against wikipedia rules. Very offensive now that I read it again. This is targeting a ethnic group indiscrimately despite the fact he uses misleading articles with exaggerations. I find this very offensive and this isn't the first time according to the link he posted. On his talk page the same extremely offensive comments had been made and he did again. I didn't say Bablos939 was racist. It's you and the other members who said he was racist. I simply said he was anti-Chinese. I suggest that we contact the other 5 or 6 wiki editors (of all checked, one was a sockpuppet waterfalls ) that have previously discussed with Bablos939 in the archive 2. several admins/highly respected editor have already rejected or didn't response to Bablos939 request but he continues. This is basically just another revival of the same questions that were already long put to rest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Interracial_marriage/Archive_2 My accusations was inappropriate. I'm sorry for deciding everything too quickly. But there should be a sockpuppet investigation to see if there's signs of sockpuppetry in casting additional votes ( to create the illusion of fake concesus agreement ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signs_of_sockpuppetry#Casting_additional_votes One of the editors that was against Bablos939 was Watersinfalls. A sockpuppet investigation and found he was was a sock and there was a sockpuppet investigation I was wrong for judging this is sockpuppetry this is because I've checked both of the wikipedian users 116.123.12.44 220.117.225.165 , they had never edited anything until now. I've looked up at ip-address-lookup-v4.com and it shows both come from South Korea, Seoul city. And since Bablos939 have Korean google translations everything time he copies and paste a link.

TO BABLOS939. We all know various ethnicity like Chinese women, Chinese-Korean women, Korean women, Russian women, Ukrainian women all are victims of trafficking's to East Asia or to Europe, Australia ect. Both Chinese women and Korean women make up most of the trafficked prostitutes in East Asia,even in Australia where sadly they can't tell the difference but this has nothing to do with interracial marriage. Vamlos (talk) 13:52, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Not everyone is like you. (Personal attack removed) You are the only one who mentions Korea on a topic that is not related to Korea. (Personal attack removed)Bablos939 (talk) 01:33, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Sadly, reality is the opposite of your wish.[[5]] I only mention Chinese women in other page because they stand out the most, but I'm not a racist. The reliable news only mentions them. Is News racist according to your logic? Why do you repeat content that is irrelevant to the subject? I hope block user never show up again.Bablos939 (talk) 02:27, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Don't know why you accuse me lying and cheat without evidence. I mentioned you because I've seen your editing history. I was a bystander and I didn't interfere because the others had managed it well. I suggest that we contact them. Your history can seen on archives. (Personal attack removed) I'm more surprised of the fact I'm the only one here replying. I suggest contact the others to join the discussion because surely they would continue if they had known your still debating on this.

Also please stop making fake accusations like you have done to majority of the users. You didn't even read what the link at the bottom said to you. RoySmith (talk) 13:18, 8 June 2020 (UTC).... : Also if you read at the bottom it told you.... " If you have specific evidence that there's socking going on, please present it in the form of diffs, i.e. editor1 made this edit, and editor2 made that edit. Vagues assertions of socking, links to talk pages, etc, aren't useful. At this point, this is borderline disruptive because it's making a lot of work for people to process your requests " which you didn't do and Your accusing without evidence just like here again. RoySmith " Closing this with no action taken. I have requested that Bablos939 refrain from participating in SPI until they get more practical experience. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:31, 15 June 2020 (UTC) ". It's important not to make random accusations.

Vamlos (talk) 04:22, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Mate, your points don't make any sense here 'I didn't say Bablos939 was racist.' and 'I simply said he was anti-Chinese.'. Being anti-Chinese is being racist, to be racist you must be against a certain race, and 'Chinese' is a certain race, by calling Bablos939 'anti-Chinese', you are calling him 'racist', there is no way around that, also you are being disrespectful to Bablos939, (Redacted) I've now read a lot of the accusations against him and some look questionable, he is clearly not as infamous as you are making him out to be, regardless, if you wanna call out Bablos939, do it in his talk page, we are here to discuss the 'abuse reporting' on Chinese men on the interracial marriage wiki and the ones behind it. -- Toby Mitches (talk) 14:10, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Being anti-Chinese is not neccesarily racist but it could also be racist. Anti-Chinese could be the result of either hatred just for being Chinese or the result of jealousy/envy against Chinese which could cause anti-Chinese sentiments. (Redacted)Vamlos (talk) 06:11, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry Vamlos but you can no claim that being anti-Chinese isn't racist, (Redacted) -- Toby Mitches (talk) 11:10, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Dear.Toby Mitches I've never used community website. He's been referring to me on an external site since the previous debate. Please compare the links: [[6]][[7]] I couldn’t make head nor tail of what he was saying.Bablos939 (talk) 14:30, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Australia

Strange as it may seem to non-Australians, what I have written in the article is correct - The Australian Government does not collect information on the races of marriage partners. That makes it pointless to try to include anything about Australia in an article about the race of marriage partners. (Apart from the fact that we can't.) I previously removed the irrelevant content, and Toby Mitches just restored it, with no explanation, as if my edit was obvious vandalism or something. It wasn't vandalism. It was making the content correct. HiLo48 (talk) 23:26, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello HiLo48, I have viewed the text and I will now agree that it was my wrong to undo your work, however I was annoyed as the Australian section is now basically empty, I don't mind you removing the information, but could you please try to update it with relevant data? Also I never once claimed your motives to be vandalism, please don't accuse me of something I never did. -- Toby Mitches (talk) 10:27, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Toby Mitches - It seems I am having trouble communicating here. What is in that section now is all that is relevant and that can be said about Australia. There simply is no data collected on race in Australia. That means there is nothing that can be said about interracial marriage in Australia. And I did not say that you claimed my motives were vandalism. Please note my use of the words "as if". Given that you gave no reason, I was left to guess. HiLo48 (talk) 10:52, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

HiLo48, thats fair, I now understand your motives and see what point you are trying to make, I may try to update the Australia section with relatable data, as an aussie myself, I'm sure I can find something, and when I do, you are more than welcome to discuss it with me, also, I see your point on the vandalism thing, but don't just assume things that like, that was highly uncivil of you and I encourage you stop said behavior. -- Toby Mitches (talk) 11:10, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Toby Mitches - The addition you have made is about self-declared ancestry, not race. They are not the same thing. The data is 14 years old. There have been two more censuses since then. I find the data about ancestry interesting. The "self-declared" aspect is significant. For the census you chose, 2006, more people nominated Australian as their ancestry rather than any other option, even though it was the final choice in a list of seven. That number is far higher than the number of Aboriginal people, which tells us that a lot of people identify as having Australia ancestry even if they have ancestors a few more generations back from somewhere else in the world, such as the UK. This makes it even less to do with race. It's also important to note that respondents can list more than one ancestry on the census. (I do.) It's not clear how your source dealt with that reality. I'm still not convinced that data belongs in the article. It's not about race. And if nothing else, I believe we must point out that the racial background of Australians (whatever that means) is not collected/recorded/stored, and is therefore not available for the kind of analysis this article presumably requires. HiLo48 (talk) 21:44, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

HiLo48, why does it matter if the data is 14 years old? there is information which is over 1,000 years old, which we remove them? I also didn't claim it to be of any modern standard, I just stated that it was 'According to the Census in 2006', you also claimed I used this source, which is a lie, I didn't, I instead actually used this source, which you said is related to ancestry and you are correct, however, ancestry is clearly related to race, please educate yourself, I also never edited anything about Aboriginal people, so if you feel the need to remove that content, I won't stop you -- Toby Mitches (talk) 02:22, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

This is simple. Ancestry is not race!!! 30% of people in Australia said they were of Australian ancestry on the census. What race does that demonstrate they are? And your behaviour in re-adding that content without further discussion is confrontational. You are supposed to seek consensus here. HiLo48 (talk) 02:43, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

HiLo48, good point, actually if you remove the info again, I won't stop you, but if you don't mind me asking, what about the other two censuses which have since taken place and why shouldn't we use them? -- Toby Mitches (talk) 03:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Because, just as was the case in 2006, there is nothing in them about race. Only ancestry. And they are not the same thing. HiLo48 (talk) 03:08, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Information of historical marriages between Europeans, Australian Aborigines, Chinese and other Asians were also removed. There's a historical background on the Interracial marriages of Australia which also involves racism.Vamlos (talk) 04:33, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Vamlo You are constantly referring to me in discussions that have nothing to do with me. If you persist in your stubbornness, I will not simply request an investigation but report formally.Bablos939 (talk) 11:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm perfectly happy to see those historical accounts for Australia, but they should be followed by the fact that people are not classified according to race in Australia today, so modern figures are unavailable. The ancestry data from the census is not the same as race. HiLo48 (talk) 04:41, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

I have just removed the "ancestry" info for that exact reason – it is about a very different thing from what this article is about. --bonadea contributions talk 17:42, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Response to Toby Mitches

Data I used was already written in the previous wikipedia disuccusion now in archive 2. I suggest we contact the other wikipedia users who had long debated with Bablos939 as shown in the archives of which were already put to rest but were revived on here. They have successfully given their opinions and the discussion led to nowhere so they archived it. The result was 5-6 of the users were against (although of them checked one have been banned for sockpuppetry). It would be extremely unfair not to contact them given that they had no idea what was going on and this was contuning after 1-2 month later. Let them know if they are interested in joining the dicussion again.

Type Chinese peruvian, Chinese cuban, Chinese costa rican, Chinese mexican ect and you will see that they are heavily mixed. You can even find videos of these people who look almost nothing Chinese (some more ,some less than others ) but speaking Cantonese (a dialect of or a different type of Chinese language ) although they only know a several words

What's edited on those wikipedia seems to have existed since 2015 or even longer. I din't write none of that stuff in wikipedia that existed since 7-8 years ago. I also cannot find the the several thousands Chinese men and their families deported. Nobody even wrote that in the wiki page

Anyway evidence of Chinese-Mexicans shows the wikipedia is correct.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/chinese-mexicans-expelled-during-xenophobic-period-celebrate-anniversary-of-repatriation

FROM Fox News

"Mexican women who married Chinese men were considered traitors, and in some cases families disowned them. With the Great Depression, large numbers of destitute Mexicans began returning home from the United States and resentment about the financial success of Chinese people grew. "

"In 1930, Mexico had 18,000 Chinese citizens and Mexicans of Chinese descent. By 1940, there were only 4,800, Gonzalez said."

"Today, there are at least 70,000 Chinese citizens and Chinese-Mexicans in the country, according to a report in 2008 by the Foreign Relations Department. "

Chinese men and Mexican women

The Chinese in Mexico, 1882-1940

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=U3GQ7o3HV1cC&pg=PA86&dq=large+number+chinese+men+mexican+women&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_tZ3tlI3sAhXLUBUIHc1lAfUQ6AEwAHoECAMQAg#v=onepage&q=large%20number%20chinese%20men%20mexican%20women&f=false

"Between 1911 and 1928, some 22,319 Chinese male emigrants and nationalized Mexican citizens.... compared with only 307 women "

"we learn that intermarriage between Chinese men and female Mexican nationals was a relatively frequent phenomenon"

FOR EXAMPLE. In only the two states of Chihuahua and Hermomsillo

"Chihuahua and Hermomsillo manucrscripts reveal that a few Chinese brought Chinese wives to Mexico.Finally, the mucipal census manuscripts of these two state capitals also demonstrate that the Chinese immigrant community of Mexico was not traditional bachelor society, based upon the many records o Mexican born offspring produced as a a consequence of martial and extramartial unions between Chinese immigrants and Chinese and mexican women"

Chinese men Cuban women

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1904408/cubas-chinatown-bears-ghosts-past-and-hope-future

" The Chinese-Cuban Community Just 300 Chinese of non-mixed descent lived in Cuba in 2008, according to the CIA's world fact book, which estimated that the ethnic heritage of more than 114,000 Cubans was partly Chinese. "

https://www.bjp-online.com/2019/04/sean-alexander-geraghty-havana-chinese-community/

" Essa is a member of the Lung Kong Society and is one of the approximately 150 pure Chinese left in Cuba. Some of the oldest members like her still speak their native Cantonese among themselves. "

" Chinese immigration to Cuba was predominantly male, this further facilitated the mix of Chinese people with Cubans of all heritages, creating a unique multi layered identity. Kids like Rene are the faces of the new generation of Chinese Cubans © Sean Alexander Geraghty "

IRANIAN WOMEN CHINESE MEN?

The massive evidence can be seen on archive 2 which shows multiple evidence of numerous Iranian/Persian gulf female to China. Is it necessarily that I must do so much work. And at least there's evidence for it.

1 out of 69 of sample showed mtDNA W of Southern Chinese(Cantonese) if you look at the genetic papers.

• https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/19/10/1737/1258999

We determine the phylogenetic backbone of the East Asian mtDNA tree by using published complete mtDNA sequences and assessing both coding and control region variation in 69 Han individuals from southern China.

"from 69 healthy and maternally unrelated Cantonese from southern China, Guangdong Province,"

I WILL CONTINUE LATER.... Too much information has been thrown at me at the same times. I propose that we wait for the others. I'm not exactly the greatest expert in searching for info and I really don't want to invest so much time on something that's already been discussed previously by the others Vamlos (talk) 14:00, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

I WILL CONTINUE TO ANSWER THESE QUESTION

Providing multiple inconsistent sources in his statement under 'Chinese men peruvian women'

Not sure how you can claim they are iconsistent sources when mainstream estimates would put them anywhere near from 5% to 15% Peruvian population Chinese ancestry. Why would not many members be related to 180,000 members. 180,000 of Chinese who are 50% or 100%. Also the 2.5 million people of Chinese ancestry could be as much as only 33%, 25%, 12.5%, 6%, 3%, 1.5%. People of Chinese ancestry are not only those born to 100% Chinese parents or 50%.

Cherry picking wrong sources is one of his most common offences

Every source that I used is backed by references and credible statistic.

Bablos939 took out one small sentence without including the rest. Very misleading

FOR EXAMPLE....he wrote

(A)-2 Peru 'the men(Chinese) had almost no contact with local women in Peru.' ( completely cut off the original sentences )

This is how the sentence suppose to be

" More than 100,000 coolies were thus brought to Peru between 1849 and 1874. Th is large group of immigrants was characterized by its masculinity, the almost total absence of women. During their contract, which ran from four to eight years, often longer depending on the goodwill of the hacendados, the men had almost no contact with the local women. "

Almost no contact with women from four to eight years or longer (10 years) from 1849 to 1874 and Chinese had been in Peru for 170 years. And marriages and contacts became very common after the end of their slave contracts. But this was obviously not included on purpose.

Plantation Agriculture and Social Control in Northern Peru, 1875–1933

By Michael J. Gonzales https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IhfhDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA100

"Sacchetti, writing in the Boletin Del Ministerio de Fomento in 1905, ascribed the " progessive degeneration" of the Chinese to the fact that some had bred with blacks and Indians. Then there is sad case of the Chinese at Cayalti who contracted syphilis, a sure sign of sexual contact. Of more signficant, however is the fact that mass marriages were arranged between Chinese and Indians at Casa Grande."

ANOTHER EXAMPLE

(A)-1 Cuba 'There is anecdotal evidence that Chinese men in Cuba and Peru married or had sexual relationships with white,black,mulatto and Indian women (....if you keep reading )

"Immediatly followed by ( Bablos939 left this out ) "The extend of this intermarriage is hard to determine"

The Cuban reported only few marriages, but when did the wikipedia says that most Chinese Cuban are the result of marriages in facts in clearly says most did not marry (because it happened mostly with sexual relations ) and besides that many marriages had not been reported either. What's important is that there a large number claiming to be partial Chinese descent and to add more there's many Chinese. Ancedotal is based on personal accounts, not neccesarily true or reliable. I also agree historical accounts is far more reliable with genetics, the people who claimed to be Chinese descent, and the official estimates from the government of it's country.

Fixation on DNA isn't an offends, however they have a noticeable clear obsession with trying to prove Chinese people have effected other people groups by proving it with DNA

There have been many recorded historical incidents of Persian women or female of Persian Gulf, or Iranian women marrying Chinese men and presence of Persian, Sogdian females have been recorded from Tang dynasty, Song dynasty, Ming dynasty. All women from Persian Gulf were all considered Persian . The mtDNA evidence just futher confirms those historical records. Now as for Chinese women the Hui Chinese genetics shows 6.7% West Eaurasian female ancestry but 30% West Eurasian male ancestry, meaning most marriages were definately west eurasian males and chinese females. The evidence is in the Hui Chinese who clearly have Persian, Arab, Central Asian ancestry.

For Turkic women it was properly even more common during the Qing dynasty and Republic of China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qing_dynasty

The Art of Symbolic Resistance: Uyghur Identities and Uyghur-Han Relations ...

By Joanne N. Smith Finley

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LQBBAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA309&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

"From 1911-1949 when the Kuomintang ruled, many Uyghur girls approached Han soldiers for relationships"

Misinforming statements to further his idea Misinforming statements to further his idea, some sources only state Chinese people intermarrying with other groups of people and doesn't mention a explicated gender.

When you know very well that the gender are almost all males why would you need to think of which gender it is. There is no mention of Chinese women marrying during the early centuries in Carribeans only until recently there is more wave of migrants in 21st century. We are talking about 19th- early 20th century. The link of the source on 3.8% Chinese paternal is very clear that it sats sex biasesd gene flow, there's no mention of Chinese women (although they properly existed )

The source says this " Simms TM, Wright MR, Hernandez M, et al. (August 2012). "Y-chromosomal diversity in Haiti and Jamaica: contrasting levels of sex-biased gene flow". American Journal of Physical Anthropology. 148 (4): ". There was indeed a sex as males were almost all immigrants leaving no choice but to marry Carribean women.

I will wait. I will also take some time to reseach more. I also prefer the others who disccussed here join the dicussion. -Vamlos (talk) 15:48, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Vamlos, these are some pretty weak claims, you haven't disrupted anything I've said, you've just reinforced your same point, and you even attacked Bablos939 in one point out of nowhere, could you try respond by showing why my claims are wrong by providing links. -- Toby Mitches (talk) 15:10, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

I have not attacked anyone. You keep mentioning Bablos939 but did you even checked when he incorrectly claimed that there was almost no contact between Chinese men and local women. In reality he gave incomplete sentences that made it seem Chinese men had almost no contact with women when in reality it was only reffering only in the begginning of their slave contracts which lasted 4-8 years or more maybe (8-12 years). Please read the rest at the bottom and youy will see there was a misunderstanding of the sources used by Bablos939.

Also read this Sex ratios and intermarriage among coolies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolie#Sex_ratios_and_intermarriage_among_coolies

" A major difference between the Chinese and the Indian coolie trades was that women and children were brought from India, along with men, while Chinese coolies were 99% male.[60] This led to a high rate of Chinese men marrying women of other ethnicities such as Indian women and mixedrace Creole women. The contrast in the female to male ratio between Indian and Chinese immigrants has been compared by historians.[61] - Vamlos (talk) 06:24, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Vamlos, when you response to me, your suppose to show me how my claims are wrong, for example, I claimed you have a bias towards Chinese men, by responding to me I want you to show me how you don't have a bias towards Chinese men, use logic and use links where need be, but in one of your points, instead of criticizing my claims, you instead criticized Bablos939 for being 'Very misleading', I never claimed Bablos939 to be very accurate, that was never I point I made, you can go back and edit 'Response to Toby Mitches' to dispute my claims that: you are bias towards Chinese men, you are helping to increase the Abuse Reporting on this wiki page, you proved multiple inconsistent sources, you cherry pick wrong sources and you are fixated on DNA. I hope this helped you to start to see what I want you to dispute me with because your response to me wasn't very convincing, you touched upon the fixation on DNA which was a good start, but please try go more into depth, and remember be civil :). -- Toby Mitches (talk) 11:10, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

I didn't edit any of the stuff that's on wikipedia article but I do know there was a huge debate because of Bablos939 insistent ( extremely offensive comments that is direct or indirect towards Chinese men) on targeting Chinese info. I suggest we contact all the wikipedia user who were in archive 2. How am I increasing the WP:ABUSE. I've not said anything offensive, insulted nor have I misconducted in uncivil.

It's innapropriate to keep misusing Abuse reporting on another user when there's no evidence, if this continues than that is abuse and threatening users. You keep using Abuse reporting against me but this is what the rule says "Abuse response (AR), previously abuse reports, was a Wikipedia process by which volunteers could respond to issues of persistent vandalism or disruptive editing from IP addresses. " From what I've seen, I've not caused any vandalism , misconduct nor have I disrupted anything. I've not insulted or offended anyone and I even changed on what you requested. I very carefully watch out on what I write. I answered everying according in civil manner with no peronal attacks. All I did was pointing out mistake. Also the wikipedia for this rule said " This page has been closed down by community consensus, and is retained only for historical reference ". You said my claims were weak, saying I'm bias towards Chinese men, saying I'm cherrypicking wrong sources, saying I'm giving multiple inconsisten sources. All these are wrong accusations you made isn't allowed and that is really. You said Bablos939 is a racist and even when he said extremely offensive comments to Chinese you did not even give him a warning. Every source I've giving you showed that Chinese intermarriage with Mexican women, Peruvian women, Cuban women ect were accurate. You said you agreed with Bablos939 and that he is right and I showed the sources he used was wrong, I'm waiting for you to comment on that.Vamlos (talk) 00:33, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Vamlos, I'm sorry if I accused you of abuse reporting, it's true you haven't edited any of the information about Chinese men on the interracial marriage wiki (expect for the Australian one), but I want you to relies that there is a problem on the interracial marriage wiki, like I explained to you on your (User talk page), 'Chinese' are referred to an extreme amount of times:

'British' appears 70 times

'Arab' appears 38 times

'Turk' appears 11 times

'Indian' appears 233 times

'Chinese' appears 336 times

Not just Chinese, but Indian as well, but almost every time they are mentioned, it refers to Indian women marrying outside their race and how Chinese men marry outside their race, this once again shows how the interracial marriage wiki page is being abuse reported, someone is making it out that Chinese men are always marring outside their race and that Indian women are always marrying outside their race, this is not normal, and you are the one who is help promoting this ideology, this could be considered abuse reporting because instead of bringing data about interracial marriage, there is now only data on Chinese men marrying outside their race, it's alright if you wanna edit the coolie wiki page and talk about how Chinese men left China and married local South American women, but not on the interracial marriage wiki, you can edit one paragraph under the 'China' section, but there is no need to go under almost every south american country and only talk about Chinese men marrying outside their race, thats 'undue weight on a particular aspect rather than the subject as a whole' which is the problem on the interracial marriage wiki:

America: has a paragraph decided to Chinese men marrying African American women, there is mention of Chinese women, but not to the extent of Chinese men

Hawaii: has a paragraph on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but no mention of Chinese women

Canada: no extreme mention of Chinese people

Latin America: has a paragraph on Chinese men marrying outside their race, there is mention of Chinese women, but it actually talks about how they didn't marry outside their race

Guyana: has a paragraph on Chinese men marrying outside their race, there is mention of Chinese women, but it actually talks about how they didn't marry outside their race

Trinidad: has many paragraphs on Chinese men marrying outside their race, there is mention of Chinese women, but it actually talks about how they didn't marry outside their race as much as Chinese men

Peru: has many paragraphs on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but no mention of Chinese women. There is even links to 'Chinese Peruvian' but no other nationality

Cuba: has many paragraphs on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but no mention of Chinese women. There is even links to 'Chinese Cuban' but no other nationality

Mexico: has a paragraph on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but no mention of Chinese women. There is even links to 'Chinese immigration to Mexico' but no other nationality

Costa Rica: has a paragraph on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but no mention of Chinese women. There is even links to 'Chinese people in Costa Rica' but no other nationality

Venezuela: has a paragraph on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but no mention of Chinese women. There is even links to 'Chinese Venezuelan' but no other nationality

Jamaica: has a paragraph on Chinese men marrying outside their race, there is mention of Chinese women, but it actually talks about how they didn't marry outside their race. There is even links to 'Chinese Jamaicans' but no other nationality

Middle East and North Africa: no extreme mention of Chinese people

Elsewhere in Africa: has a paragraph on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but no mention of Chinese women. But this is isn't extreme

Southern Africa: no extreme mention of Chinese people

Mauritius: has a paragraph on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but no mention of Chinese women.

Réunion: no extreme mention of Chinese people

West Africa: no extreme mention of Chinese people

Australia: has a paragraph on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but no mention of Chinese women. You even edited this paragraph

Central Asia: no extreme mention of Chinese people

Afghanistan: no extreme mention of Chinese people

China, Western regions: has many paragraphs on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but no mention of Chinese women.

China, Manchuria: has many paragraphs on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but no mention of Chinese women.

Hong Kong: has many paragraphs on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but no mention of Chinese women.

Macau: has many paragraphs on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but no mention of Chinese women.

Taiwan: has many paragraphs on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but no mention of Chinese women.

Japan: no extreme mention of Chinese people, kinda

Korea: no extreme mention of Chinese people

Southeast Asia: no extreme mention of Chinese people

Vietnam: no extreme mention of Chinese people

Burma: no extreme mention of Chinese people

Malaysia and Singapore: no extreme mention of Chinese people, but does talk about how Chinese women married outside their race

Philippines: no extreme mention of Chinese people

Indian subcontinent: has many paragraphs on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but no mention of Chinese women.

All of Europe: no extreme mention of Chinese people, there are some paragraphs on Chinese men marrying outside their race, but they don't look to be harmful

With this now shown, can you please see why it is concerning at how many times Chinese people are mentioned, and even when they are, its only about how Chinese men marry outside their race, the heavy mention on only this topic is considered abuse reporting, can you now see my point? I'm not trying to get you into trouble anymore, even if you want, I'll help you edit details about Chinese men marrying outside their race but only on the coolie page and even if you want I'll also help you edit details about Chinese men marrying outside their race but only into one paragraph under the Chinese section in the interracial marriage page, would you be happy with that? -- Toby Mitches (talk) 02:22, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Your method is too easily refuted. (1) You always exaggerate only some cases as if they were a majority. Then you mistake your own delusion as true. (2) Evidence is unclear or does not cross-validate (3) You distort the evidence arbitrarily, which is not clear. No original research Bablos939 (talk) 02:06, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

This isn't a method. I've just shown you fact. I refuted your misinterpretations because most of the sentences were left out.Your is actually original research for not reading the entire thing and this misleads people. Also never in wikipedia did it says majority or most of them married. Nowhere in the wikipedia said MOST or MAJORITY of them had had married Peruvian women. "Some" and "many" of it's 100,000 males married or sexual relations. Some or many could either mean 20% or 30%, most or majority would be above 60%.

Your mistake is you didn't read the whole and assumed that Chinese male had only a few marriage when it only says no contact during their contact 4-8 years or longer 8-12 years. Is that you didn't focus on the time and date on those events.

And the "some" Chinese men bred with Black and Indian women recorded from 1905 and also mention mass marriages (large number) of marriage of Chinese men and Indian women in Casa Grande." . Does that mean that marriages stopped at 1905 ??? No. Because Chinese migrants have kept migrating until 1920. The newer migrants later in 1950's were both Chinese men/women and they generally or almost never mix don't mix.

For example Korean researcher Justina Hwang, whose Ph.D. included research on the Asian community in Peru. According to also to Isabelle Lausent-Herrera. It says

"Ninety-nine percent of the Chinese in Peru at this time were men, and so many married Peruvian women and converted to Catholicism, writes researcher Isabelle Lausent-Herrera."

https://www.ozy.com/around-the-world/this-latin-american-melting-pot-will-surprise-you/86315/

And you can clearly the majority of these Peruvian Chinese look mixed with some having more Chinese others having less but they still practise Chinese traditions. Vamlos (talk) 04:06, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

What is the standard for 'many' without exact statistics? Furthermore, this is not an academic material. Academic material only says that most workers died or remained single. They are only testifying to anecdotal evidence or a minority. If by the standards of this document ,we must describe every national male in the world married to a Chinese woman. and We should not do original research. And if you keep mentioning external community sites or frame me,I have no choice but to file a complaint against you. also we should use only proven academic material in the discussion.Bablos939 (talk) 09:00, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Since when did 'many' means majority. Many means a large number, great number but never did it mean most or majority. If Academic material says most worker died or remained than please provide sources. 60% can mean most but 40% can also mean minority. Every source I've seen always show some or many have interrmaried or sexual cohabitation. There's no original research here, original research is cherrypicking a incomplete sentence and not looking the entire sentence, assuming wrong things. You must mention mostly historical marriages not recent marriages. This wikipedia article is to describe historical marriages. Southern Chinese coolies males and immigrants are the one Asians to have migrated in mass numbers during 19th-20th century to around the world. Japanese also migrated but only to few countries, significant Koreans migrations only started in mid 20th century and that is marriages of Korean men, foreign women in western didn't happen (or almost non-existant) in those times.

Chinese women have been mentioned LARGE ARMOUNT OF TIMES in this wikipedia articles. Marriages to foreign men have been mentioned in wikipedia Macau, America, United Kingdom, Malaysia, Singapore, Reunion, Hong Kong, Manchuria and other countries. Most of them are Chinese women and foreign men. It's just you didn't read the whole wikipedia page. There's already more than enough Chinese men and women but not enough Korean men/women or not enough Ukranian men/women mention of Korean women and when there is a lot of data of Korean women to foreign men.

Do you have any source or even academic material that proves they are wrong ? Because I couldn't find it.Vamlos (talk) 01:14, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Plz don't make other debate repeat again and again. (1) America : Reliable academic materials refer to only a small number of cases.[[8]] You are exaggerating a fact that has not been proven at all.

You're breaking the rules now. Wikipedia:No original research , (2) ///Marriages to foreign men have been mentioned in wikipedia Macau, America, United Kingdom, Malaysia, Singapore, Reunion, Hong Kong, Manchuria and other countries. Most of them are Chinese women and foreign men.///if you read the link clearly it says most of the marriages were with males from Hong Kong and Taiwan. Not men of other ethnicity. Obviously males from Hong Kong and Taiwan are also ethnic Chinese but with different nationality. //// You are deftly covering up marriages between different ethnic men and Chinese women. You are deliberately highlighting a country with many Chinese men. but Unlike your argument, there are so many marriages between men of different races and Chinese women. 'Before 2008, there were over 300,000(C-F) marriages between foreigners (other race) and Chinese.' S:'Table 1.1 Comparison of Marriages between Chinese and Foreigners (C-F), Chinese and Oversea Chinese (C-OC), and Chinese and Compatriots from Hong Kong, Taiwan & Macau (C-HTM). In 1979-1989 and 1978-2008' S:'Figure 2. Types of Chinese-foreign marriages registered in mainland China, 1979–2010 Sources: ZRGM, Shewai hunyin dengji qingkuang 1979–1981; ZRGM, Sheji huaqiao, Gang Ao Tai tongbao, waiji huaren, waiguoren de hunyin 1982; ZRGM, Zai hunyin dengji zhong: Shewai ji huaqiao, Gang Ao Tai tongbao hunyin qingkuang 1983–1984; ZRGM, Shewai ji huaqiao, Gang Ao Tai tongbao hunyin 1987–1988; ZRGM, Shewai ji huaqiao, Gang Ao Tai tongbao hunyin dengji qingkuang 1990–1999; and ZRGM, Jiehun dengji qingkuang, jiehun dengji fuwu 2000–2011. Data for 1985 and 1986 are not available.' 'Since 2008, marriages between mainland Chinese women and men from other parts of the world(C-F) have become the most popular type of Chinese-foreign marriage.' Among all international marriages, over 80-90% of Chinese women and foreign men are married. Your argument is obviously cherry-picking,not fact.Bablos939 (talk) 10:58, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

This link [[9]] is a archived talk:page discussion interracial marriage, they are same questions and sources that were asked previously. That is not a reliable academic materials that is really original research . Almost every source will say " Some " or "Many" (never did it says only some cases or many) when refferring to historical Chinese marriages during the coolies. Sources don't say small number of cases or only some cases and remember we must not talk about only a few years but throught the century. The source for those link used for Peru, Cuba and other countries does not say small number and they were misinterpreted because when you read the full sentence and read the full book it does not says that. It is important read the whole source and understand that book source is only more relaible when it's backed up with physical descendants, government census, estimates.

Link that were posted. None of them says 'Before 2008, there were over 300,000(C-F) marriages between foreigners (other race) and Chinese.' S:'Table 1.1 Comparison of Marriages between Chinese and Foreigners (C-F),

Adding (other race) is really original research and mistinterpretations of the original source. From the link posted says this http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.915.6769&rep=rep1&type=pdf

The rise of Chinese-foreign marriage in mainland China, 1979–2010

" PRC’s Ministry of Civil Affairs indicate that the most common type of Chinese-foreign marriage registered in mainland China until the late 2000s was between a mainland Chinese woman and a man from Hong Kong, Macao or Taiwan. However, since 2008, marriages between mainland Chinese women and men from other parts of the world have become the most popular type of Chinese-foreign marriage. " <----- It doesn't say race and other parts of the world has Reffering to Singapore predominately Chinese Singaporean, there's also Malaysian Chinese, Brunei Chinese, American Chinese, Canadian Chinese, Australian, it can mean and overseas Chinese. First there needs to be more information on this which I will show.

The word other race have been added, it did not say other race. For your Chinese comparison marriages with Chinese and foreigners. Most of them clearly says from Hong Kong and Taiwan. People from Hong Kong and Taiwan can be considered foreign, different nationality but not different races. this page is for interracial marriage not same ethnic marriage. Is that it was misinterpreted when say

The other link says this

"The most common type of Chinese-foreign marriage registered in mainland China until the late 2000s was between a mainland Chinese woman and a man from Hong Kong, Macao or Taiwan. Nearly 8,000 people from Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan married mainland Chinese citizens in 1979. That figure peaked at slightly more than 48,000 in 2003. However, the number of such marriages has been declining, on average, since then. Fewer than 18,000 people from Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan married mainland Chinese citizens in 2010, which is lower than the number of marriages involving ‘foreign nationals’.

It again says foreign nationals. foreign national is not a race, it's just a different passport.

https://blogs.nottingham.ac.uk/chinapolicyinstitute/2014/02/10/chinese-foreign-marriage-in-mainland-china/

It says this "most mainland Chinese marrying this way are women; and; most marriages are cross-border, or intra-Asian, rather than international."

Data made available by the Ministry of Civil Affairs of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) on the number of Chinese-foreign marriages (涉外婚姻) registered in mainland China between 1979 and 2010 suggest three key points:

• Chinese-foreign marriage is a recent and small phenomenon
• most mainland Chinese marrying this way are women
• most marriages are cross-border, or intra-Asian, rather than international.

Most marrages are intra-Asian means of own Asian community it is not even international marriage let alone interracial marriage. There was even a debate if we should allow inter-ethnic marriage (for example a Chinese and Filipino marriage is inter-ethnic not racial)

Chinese–foreign marriages registered in mainland China are typically ‘cross-border’ rather than international. The PRC’s marriage registration regulations divide Chinese-foreign marriages into three different categories:

• marriage between PRC citizens (中国公民) residing in mainland China (内地居民) and Overseas Chinese (华侨), i.e., Chinese citizens who reside in another country
• marriage between citizens of mainland China and citizens of Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan, i.e., territories that the PRC government claims as part of China, but which have separate legal jurisdictions; and
• marriage between citizens of mainland China and foreign nationals (外国人, literally people from another country), which may include former PRC citizens who have acquired foreign citizenship (外籍华人) <---- The four Chinese letter means overseas Han Chinese born sith foreign passports.

It clearly mean foreign nationals meaning overseas Chinese born.

Vamlos (talk) 03:13, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

(1) //Link that were posted. None of them says 'Before 2008, there were over 300,000(C-F) marriages between foreigners (other race) and Chinese./// You need to stop lying to us. [[10]] Look at this table(Figure 2. Types of Chinese-foreign marriages registered in mainland China, 1979–2010) and You need to calculate the figures. [[11]] You're distorting this blog new as well. (2) ////It again says foreign nationals. foreign national is not a race, it's just a different passport.//// Sources clearly divides 'Chinese and Foreigners (C-F)', 'Chinese and Oversea Chinese (C-OC)', and 'Chinese and Compatriots from Hong Kong, Taiwan & Macau (C-HTM)'. Foreigners are obviously not of Chinese descent. You exaggerate the very few cases of (South American) foreign women. On the other hand, Chinese women's marriages are forced to cover up. Bablos939 (talk) 10:51, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

I see nothing of those interpretations. It does not says (other race), this was misinterpreted by wrongly adding the word. The source of the link that you provided to me http://rozenbergquarterly.com/the-history-and-context-of-chinese-western-intercultural-marriage-in-modern-and-contemporary-china-from-1840-to-the-21st-century/

It says this

" Table 1.1 Comparison of Marriages between Chinese and Foreigners (C-F), Chinese and Oversea Chinese (C-OC), and Chinese and Compatriots from Hong Kong, Taiwan & Macau (C-HTM). In 1979-1989 and 1978-2008 "

It also says this

" This paper reviews the history of Chinese-Western marriage in modern China from 1840 to 1949, and it reveals the history of the earliest Chinese marriages to Westerners at the beginning of China’s opening up. More Chinese men married Western wives at first ". and than says later unions of chiense wives and western husband outnnumber this. The links provided to me wshow I said to be correct. It offers a lot of evidence of early Chinese men marriage with western women.

Chinese men in South America engaged either marriage, cohabitation, sexual relationship

There's estimated 1.6 to 4.2 million mixed Chinese descentdant in Peru and 114,000 to 150,000 mixed Chinese cuban descent intermarrying with various female race of South American,,. Many pictures of them you are clearly mixed. Also there's governemnt statistic for America, Mexico, Carrbean ect showed many marriages. There's strong evidence and very common evidence, including physical descendants who claim it, goverment statistic. There were only a very few cases in the beginning of the cencus but even census do not keep track of cobahitations, sexual relationships, unrtracked relationships.

For example Korean researcher Justina Hwang, whose Ph.D. included research on the Asian community in Peru. According to also to Isabelle Lausent-Herrera. It says

"Ninety-nine percent of the Chinese in Peru at this time were men, and so many married Peruvian women and converted to Catholicism, writes researcher Isabelle Lausent-Herrera."

https://www.ozy.com/around-the-world/this-latin-american-melting-pot-will-surprise-you/86315/

Chinese women marriages are not covered up and are mentionlly especially huge amount of times, more than anything. But I have seen almost nothing on Korean women when there's so much info this include Taiwan women and other East Asian women.

Example.

For united kingdom " British Chinese women (30%) were twice as likely as their male counterparts (15%) to marry someone from a different ethnic group. In 2001, 2% of all marriages in the United Kingdom were inter-ethnic "

In Japan, " In 2003, there were 740,191 marriages in Japan, of which 28,831 involved a non-Japanese bride and 7,208 involved a non-Japanese groom. Non-Japanese women who married a Japanese man were predominantly of Chinese (10,242), Filipino (7,794), Korean (5,318), Thai (1,445) and Brazilian (296) nationality. "

" Most population of Réunion Creoles who are of mixed ancestry and make up the majority of the population. Interracial marriages between European men and Chinese men with African women, Indian women, Chinese women, Madagascar women were also common " Vamlos (talk) 04:29, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Anyone can easily calculate the marriage between Chinese women and foreign men in this paper.(Figure 2. Types of Chinese-foreign marriages registered in mainland China, 1979–2010) [[12]] Graph in this link[[[13]] is a simple calculation result. (That link itself is not an academic material.) Maybe you were looking the other way and keep saying the same thing and make me repeat the same thing.

'Citzens of HongKong,Macao and Taiwan' 'Overseas ChineseForeign Nationals' : The paper clearly classifies. 'Foreign Nationals' is not Chinese. You're turning Overseas Chinese into a foreigner. Overseas Chinese also have other passports. Why do you keep mentioning passport? Your purpose is obviously to cover up the marriage between Chinese women and foreign men.

Reliable papers conclude that it is a minority case./// Cuba 'There is anecdotal evidence that Chinese men in Cuba and Peru married or had sexual relationships with white,black,mulatto and Indian women' Alien Nation: Chinese Migration in the Americas from the Coolie Era Through ISBN 978 1 4696 1340 6 [[14]]

, Peru 'the men(Chinese) had almost no contact with local women in Peru.' The Chinese in Latin America and the Caribbean [[15]]////

But you are distorting facts with bizarre logic. Even though your logic is not strange, you are doing original research. Even if you are not doing original research, you are using materials that are not academic such as 'OZY' and 'blog'. Bablos939 (talk) 10:28, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Foreign National does not mean foreign race. It's just a foreign passport. There's a lot added misinterpretation that was added but was not even in on the paper. It does not even mention other races or even other ethnicity. It just says foreign nationals.

The paper clearly says Chinese women and foreign nationals from Hong Kong, Taiwan and overseas Chinese. It does not mention other race.` Foreign Nationals can include Malaysian Chinese, Singaporean Chinese, American Chinese, Canadian Chinese, Australian Chinese and even Hong Kong and Taiwanese not just foreign non-Chinese.

Also the paper that you used in the end doesn't tell everything. It clearly says this

"Although the PRC’s Ministry of Civil Affairs provides data on the number and types of Chinese-foreign marriages registered in mainland China between 1979 and 2010, the data is insufficient for the purposes of evaluating the demographic and social issues associated with ‘cross-border’ or international Chinese-foreign marriages registered on the mainland. The data includes information about the number of marriages involving a nonPRC national that were registered in mainland China in a given year. It also includes information about the sex and place of residency of PRC nationals registering a Chineseforeign marriage in mainland China. However, unlike in other parts of East Asia, including Hong Kong and Taiwan,7 the Ministry of Civil Affairs does not release data about the age, educational background and occupation of people registering a Chineseforeign marriage in mainland China, and it only provides information about the previous marital status of brides and grooms registering a Chinese-foreign marriage in mainland China for the years between 1987 and 1998. "

THIS CREDIBLE JOURNALL SAYS THIS https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270638011_The_rise_of_Chinese-foreign_marriage_in_mainland_China_1979-2010

"'Concluding remarks summary'"

" Of the data on Chinese-foreign marriages registered in mainland China between 1979 and 2010 suggests three key points. First, Chinese-foreign marriage is a recent and small phenomenon in mainland China. Second, Chinese-foreign marriages are gendered. The mainland Chinese marrying partners in marriages registered in mainland China are predominantly women. Finally, Chinese-foreign marriage has a spatial dimension. The majority of Chinese-foreign marriages registered in mainland China are cross-border or intra-Asian rather than international."

Acording to Chinese–foreign marriages registered in mainland China are typically ‘cross-border’ rather than international. The PRC’s marriage registration regulations divide Chinese-foreign marriages into three different categories:

• marriage between PRC citizens (中国公民) residing in mainland China (内地居民) and Overseas Chinese (华侨), i.e., Chinese citizens who reside in another country
• marriage between citizens of mainland China and citizens of Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan, i.e., territories that the PRC government claims as part of China, but which have separate legal jurisdictions; and
• marriage between citizens of mainland China and foreign nationals (外国人, literally people from another country), which may include former PRC citizens who have acquired foreign citizenship (外籍华人) <---- The four Chinese letter means overseas Han Chinese born sith foreign passpport

Anecdotal, the definition of this meaning means " evidence means (of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research"...... Also the book author Elliot Young did not claim anything that it was rare or few, he wasn't sure himself while many other book, article, credible sources confirm that it was common for Chinese males/coolies to either marry, cohabit, sexual relations, concubine, many types that doesn't include record marriages for census.

CARRY ON FROM THE SENTENCE OF THE BOOK AND IT SAYS.... "The extend of this interrmarriage is hard to determine" the book author itself says it's hard to determine meaning it's unsure of these facts.

But we now have succifent modern day and research, Latin Americans (physical descendants) who claim Chiense descent, we can be certain it was very common back than. Estimates for Peru, Cuba, Mexico Chinese descendants is significant.

THE BOOK SOURCE " The Chinese in Latin America and the Caribbean, Walton Look Lai, Chee Beng Tan " Gets it's source and information from Tusans (tusheng) and the Changing Chinese Community in Peru Isabelle Lausent-Herrera*

This sentence is incomplete (the book has a missing page ) and was repeatdely misinterpreted " Peru 'the men(Chinese) had almost no contact with local women in Peru.' The Chinese in Latin America and the Caribbean......" M

The complete entence for that is this:

" 100,000 coolies were thus brought to Peru between 1849 and 1874. Th is large group of immigrants was characterized by its masculinity, the almost total absence of women. During their contract, which ran from four to eight years, often longer depending on the goodwill of the hacendados, the men had almost no contact with the local women. " ( Almost no contact with women from four to eight years or longer (10 years) from 1849 to 1874 and Chinese had been in Peru for 170 years. And marriages and contacts became very common after the end of their slave contracts. But this was obviously not included on purpose. ) "

It clearly refers the men had almost no contact during their labour contract from either 4 years, 8 years or even longer (presumbly 9-12 years ). It does nto says that Chinese hd almost no contact with local women for 170 years.

The source and information of that book comes from here, basically the original source of infor http://ilausent.free.fr/chinos/Tusans%20(tusheng)%20and%20the%20Changing%20Chinese%20Community%20in%20Peru.pdf - Vamlos (talk) 06:51, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

response to Vamlos

FIRST of all, regardless of what Bablos939 (talk) has done in the past, I think his claim on this wiki page is true, however I will instead response to Vamlos (talk) (Personal attack removed).

Double standard: (Personal attack removed) just by simply reading Vamlos' SECOND 'point' you can see that he has a bias towards Chinese men, claiming that 'Historically there was indeed massive number of Southern Chinese coolies males that intermarried with females of Latin America' which is true, but not to the scale he later claims, he also talks down upon Korean men claiming 'Korean men historically never had any adventure or male worked as slave labours overseas and intermarried with females' this statement is incorrect, he also mentions a paragraph about Chinese women having interracial marriage, however he backs up his claim by stating 'conquerers invaders but it could really large numbers were raped and used as sexual slaves' but than also states 'Chinese were also able to conquer foreign invaders and as result marry foreign female invaders including many women of foreign regions' when mentioning foreigners conquering China he claims the women 'were raped and used as sexual slaves' but when referring to Chinese men conquering foreign countries he states 'as result marry foreign female invaders including many women of foreign regions' in Vamlos' SECOND 'point' he shows a clear bias towards Chinese men and discredits Korean men and Chinese women, Vamlos appears to show a radical belief that Chinese men are the superior (Redacted).

Some other questionable comments made by Vamlos 'Racially/Genetically Koreans are the same as Chinese.' 'As long as I'm here, there's no way I will let you ignore Korean women because that is racist. I already said when we talk it won't be just about Chinese men foreign women and vice versa but also Korean women and foreign man and others. I have no interest in you repeating the same thing but I will answer all of them.'

(Redacted) The Interracial marriage wiki page is horribly vandalized, just by simply reading it one can clearly note the strange amount of times 'Chinese men' are referred to constantly claiming they are the superior and how they always are the ones to marry outside their race however when you check the link, there always seems to be some inconsistent or strange thing about the source, which I'll go into more depth later on, but sometimes, like the 'Chinese men Manchu women', the source and link is believable, but most of the time there is something wrong with the linked source, these edits are common on this page and are very odd, it would be strange that a set of people are constantly linking sources relating to 'Chinese men' always claiming them as the superior, this is why I believe someone is vandalizing this page(Redacted).

Misinformation and cherry picking: a source is always sited and most of the time its readable, however almost all the sources are inconsistent in some way or another.

Providing multiple inconsistent sources in his statement under 'Chinese men peruvian women' in one source he states 'The number of children born of such marriages estimated by my informants to be more than 180,000. Half of that number is Lima, with the ration between Chinese mestizo and the full-blooded Chinese at 90,000 to 15,000, or six to one' but than in another source he states 'mixed Peruvian-Chinese ancestry, locally known as Tusan.7 The Tusan are thought to be quite numerous: Up to 2.5 million people, or 8 percent of Peru’s population of 31 million may have Chinese ancestry' these numbers clearly don't match, Peru has a population of around 31 million, how could so many people be related to only 180,000+ members of the Chinese community .

Cherry picking wrong sources is one of his most common offences, just to list a few examples, in this statement 'Chinese men Mexican women' he claims 'The Mexican government deported several thousand Chinese men and their Mexican-origin families' however I never found any other source claiming such high numbers and explicitly claiming men or anyone getting deported, instead realistic numbers already exist on wiki on the Chinese immigration to Mexico claiming 'According to the government of Mexico City, about 3,000 families in the city have Chinese heritage.' Also all Vamlos' claims are cherry picking wrong sources, his statement on 'Chinese men Cuban women' claiming '114,000 Cubans with mixed Chinese' can only be traced to one sourced website, no other source claims this number, same with his claims on 'Chinese men Costa Rican women' where he states 'close to 10% of the people in Costa Rica are Chinese' when in reality Costa Rica's Chinese population is less than half of one percent.

Fixation on DNA isn't an offends, however they have a noticeable clear obsession with trying to prove Chinese people have effected other people groups by proving it with DNA, however there is clear misinformation almost every time, in his 'Chinese men Muslim women ( Persian women, Sogdian women, Iranian women, Arab women, Turkic women )' he constantly links sources saying Persian women are in China and how they have come to study but hardly has any sources where they intermarriage, only a couple stating that the Li Dynasty official families liked to marry Persian women, however he than states that Persian DNA has changed overtime due to the intermarrying 'WITH GENETIC EVIDENCE Haplogroup W (mtDNA) is a maternal marker common common in west Asian females and Iranian females population. Haplogrou W is believed to have originated around 23,900 years ago in Western Asia. You can see is prevalent in Persia (not Afghanistan)' however this doesn't make much common sense considering that the only few Persian which intermarried were with Royal families and as for the Persian women who were 'studying' in China, even if they did intermarry with the local Chinese men, how would that effect the DNA of Persian people in Persia. This can also be tied into the cherry picking idea as he also stated 'Thousands of Chinese men (mostly Hakka) and Indian men married local Jamaican women. The study "Y-chromosomal diversity in Haiti and Jamaica: Contrasting levels of sex-biased gene flow" shows the paternal Chinese haplogroup O-M175 at a frequency of 3.8% in local Jamaicans ( non-Chinese Jamaicans) including the Indian H-M69 (0.6%) and L-M20 (0.6%) in local Jamaicans.[177] Among the country's most notable Afro-Asians are reggae singers Sean Paul, Tami Chynn and Diana King.' However many other source say otherwise: (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ajpa.22090)

Misinforming statements to further his idea, some sources only state Chinese people intermarrying with other groups of people and doesn't mention a explicated gender, for example he mentions Chinese men with Jamaican women and uses the source: (https://huf.us/180534), however this link only says 'The 1943 census showed 12,394 Chinese residing in Jamaica. These were divided into three categories by the census, namely "China-born" (2,818), "local-born" (4,061), and "Chinese coloured" (5,515), the latter referring to multiracial people of mixed African and Chinese descent.' nowhere does this state Chinese men explicitly.

(Personal attack removed) -- Toby Mitches (talk) 11:35, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

I fully support your opinion. He rejects reliable data on Chinese women and foreign men as a whole. On the other hand, false information about Chinese men and other women is believed to be religious. He is based on the travel journal of an unknown writer. What's more funny is that he believes the absurd remarks of the guide, whose identity in the book is unknown, are true. [[16]] Bablos939 (talk) 10:50, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

(Personal attack removed) Bablos939 (talk) 02:11, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

There is also a serious distortion in other Chinese marriage documents.[17] 'However, most Chinese men did marry Mexican women, but they retained most of their customs and cultural heritage.[33]' This is not what the source says..... [18] We need to revise the distorted documents in the wake of this incident.Bablos939 (talk) 02:52, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Dear Toby Mitches ,I know your peaceful way is right. (Personal attack removed)Bablos939 (talk) 06:20, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Bablos939, I agree with your points but, you should try to be more civil, I your understand your upset (Personal attack removed) but acting out won't help, you need to disrupt this claims, also I'll try get us some help, but please be more civil, try to respond in a more formal manner. -- Toby Mitches (talk) 15:02, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

There's too many innpropriate comments. According to these rules WP:CIVIL, WP:ASPERSIONS and WP:NPA the discussion should be civil and not accuse one another. I already made changes to my own edits but I now recieve wrongful accusations against me, claiming I have malicious intention to paint Chinese men superior when these data had all been edited since 5-6 years ago or 7-8 years ago by many different editors. Where I discard Korean men ? I have searched for their history and it's true there isn't anything you can find. I don't know why all these accusations is made against me. Accusing me of vandalizing and making false accusations and as for Bablos939 recent new comments are discriminately extremely offensive and abusive comments towards Chinese women and this is the 2nd time. If there's a report for Abuse Reporting I don't believe there's anything clear more offensive against recent comments made against Chinese women. I've made already my changes to fit with wikipedia rules. I'm not here for the wrong reasons because I know every data posted is correct. I never once rejected reliable data on Chinese women and foreign men but I can see misinterpretations. I never once denied there is more Chinese women marrying out than Chinese men but I also don't agree that you try to make Chinese women and Hong Kong men, Taiwanese men as foreign men when they are in reality ethnic Chinese. Also like the claim that there only a very few marriage or sexual relation of Chinese men in Cuba and Peru, when that's only in the begginning of few years. Please remember that Chinese coolies/migrants have lived Latin America for 170 years on the other you claimed they have no contact or no any relationship based on the beginnihg of their few years. The source for Peru for example, you included only the small part when the whole sentence reffered that Chinese only had no contact with Peruvian wome when it's only 4-8 years or longer. Chinese have made massive numbers of intermarriage starting around 1880's not when they were shipped and had almost no contact in the beginning of years.Vamlos (talk) 16:17, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

You haven't disrupted any of my claims, I agree that calling your intent malicious was a little much, but if you read that sentence you'll see why I said so, also whether or not information was written 5 or 8 years ago doesn't mean its right, also claiming your not bias because you didn't write in the wiki itself doesn't hold up, you are still supporting incorrect information whether or not you were the one that wrote it, also I see you have been trying to be more civil and you have been trying to fix your aggressive behavior against Bablos939, and I thank you for that, but it looks like you are trying to shoehorn this ideology that Chinese men are constantly marrying outside their race whilst Chinese women don't, and you do this by adding in links that prove evidence that Chinese men are marring outside their race, but you never do that for Chinese women, this has led me to believe, and I think most people would agree, that someone is Abuse Reporting this wiki page to make it appear that Chinese men are constantly marrying outside their race whilst Chinese women don't, and you look to be supporting this, also I never claimed you 'never once denied there is more Chinese women marrying out than Chinese men', nowhere in my state did I say that. -- Toby Mitches (talk) 15:02, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Toby Mitches Thank you for your wise advice. I'll focus on the discussion, not on attacking others. I think all uncertain source and text should be deleted from 'Interracial marriage'. we should normalize a lot of other contaminated documents as well. They have a lot of false information related to the 'Chinese intermarriage'. (1) For a neutral point of view, Debaters should mainly refer to academic materials from other countries that are not related to China except for reliable marriage statistics within China. (2) This document should only describe a general majority, not a minority case. and the current text is the work of a blocked user 'Buzinezz'.[[19]]Bablos939 (talk) 09:07, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Bablos939, I agree with you, we should normalize the information on this page as soon as possible, but Vamlos doesn't agree with us, so we therefore need to have a discuss with him, if we can't agree on the same points, I may report him (Personal attack removed). I am still somewhat new to wiki and am in need of help from better users, but don't worry, I'll try help normalize the information, all in good time, we just have to wait a little for now -- Toby Mitches (talk) 11:29, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't think you understand the rules. I'm also prepared to report you on these repeated threats against me. There is this ruke WP:NPANPA Wikipedia:Don't accuse someone of a personal attack for accusing of a personal attack.. I have no said anything offensive, misconduct, not have I insulted. You keep mis-using the wikipdian rules multiple to make threats on other users, the evidence are all written here. Wikipedia does not allow making repeated threats of reports without evidence and accusing anyone. You accused me of cherrypicking wrong sources, saying I'm giving multiple inconsistent sources. accusing me of being biast towards Chinese men (not caring about if I'm doing this for accuracy. You have no even point out what's innacurate, not even given a example on what is wrong but all you did is said that is inconsitent and innacurate. Also the offensive extremely offensive comemnts made by Bablos939 towards Chinese but no warnings or even claiming Abuse reporting.

False accusations "but it looks like you are trying to shoehorn this ideology that Chinese men are constantly marrying outside their race whilst Chinese women don't, and you do this by adding in links that prove evidence that Chinese men are marring outside their race, but you never do that for Chinese women, this has led me to believe, and I think most people would agree, that someone is Abuse Reporting this wiki page to make it appear that Chinese men are constantly marrying outside their race whilst Chinese women don't, and you look to be supporting this...."

Chinese women have been mentioned LARGE ARMOUNT OF TIMES in this wikipedia articles. Marriages to foreign men have been mentioned in wikipedia Macau, America, United Kingdom, Malaysia, Singapore, Reunion, Hong Kong, Manchuria and other countries. Most of them are Chinese women and foreign men. It's just you didn't read the whole wikipedia page.Vamlos (talk) 01:18, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Vamlos, your right and I am sorry, I have been uncivil at times, but so have you, and so has Bablos939, but I don't wanna fight with you anymore -- Toby Mitches (talk) 02:22, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks and me too. It's good for all of us to be civil.- Vamlos (talk) 03:08, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Toby Mitches Dear Toby Mitches,I always respect other users. but Vamlos never seems to have any intention of continuing a productive debate. He continued to receive warnings. but He distorts obvious data to cover up the marriage of Chinese women. Administrator also does not want to continue the unproductive debate. We already have an concensus. [[20]] In addition, blocked user works should be deleted. Even if the discussion continues, the wrong part of the document should be kept deleted. My idea is to immediately redirect this document to before the blocked user intervenes. [[21]] (Of course, the contributions of normal users must be maintained since then.)Bablos939 (talk) 11

31, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

That link is not concensus, that is a previous talk page now archived. The vast majority of the users disagreed with the misinterpetations and I have shown the incomplete sentences. Those users are not blocked with exception of waterfalls, and have been checked in ISP repeatedly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Rajmaan/Archive except for waterfalls, the majority users are all proven to be not socks of anyone. Vamlos (talk) 07:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Page block

This page is on my Watchlist and it is constantly blowing up and not because there is a productive discussion going on here about improvements to the article.

If this bickering continues on, the simplest solution is to give warring editors a page block so you can go elsewhere on Wikipedia and be more productive on other pages. There are over 6 million other articles that you could be improving instead of fighting over this one.

Please be civil, do not insult or belittle other editors and focus on improving the article content TOGETHER or you will find yourself unable to edit the article and talk page for at least one month. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:23, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Dear Liz , I have nothing to say. I will try to finish unproductive debate as soon as possible. Please kindly understand. thank you Bablos939 (talk) 10:39, 8 October 2020 (UTC) Striking sock comment. Generalrelative (talk) 15:17, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

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