Talk:Hypercoaster

Non Inverting?

I question the reference to the characteristic of a hypercoaster to be non inverting. Nowhere else have I heard the same description, especially in that there where be a labeling error for those that do invert (Sheikra, Moonsault Scramble, Son of Beast). This would land those coasters being concerned in a void rather than a specific height classification. (Hyde244 14:58, 25 February 2007 (UTC))

Just found something, the article is correction, per an encyclopedia. [1]. But it is a confusing subject, considering SheiKra's height classification would be considered a hyper coaster. But I think that the term hypercoaster has come to be known as a ride with those certain characteristics (since their manufacturers label them that way). Possibly a 2nd table should be created with coasters that meet the height requirement but do not fall under the two other requirements. I don't fully understand it myself, but thats the way I understand it to be. (Coasterman1234 17:15, 27 February 2007 (UTC))

-Honestly, nobody understands the height classifications fully, everyone just kind of makes it up as they go. :P

Anyways, I think your onto something coasterman with the optional table, of which we can include Sheikra, Griffon, SoB, etc. Just as well, we can also just mention that there are indeed coasters that do go above 200 ft. that also contain inversions.

Of course, the more that you think about it, it does indeed make sense that hypercoasters do not invert, as that would explain why Magnum was the first hyper coaster, even though Moonsault Scrambler was built previously above 200 ft. Genius.

Alright, I'll see what I can try to work in. - Hyde244 02:14, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Technically Son of Beast has just gained hypercoaster status with the removal of it's loop. I will try and work on a second table as well. (Coasterman1234 01:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC))

I started on the second table and reworded some things but it still needs work, those are all the hypercoasters (meeting height requirements) I could find, as of today (Coasterman1234 03:03, 2 March 2007 (UTC))

This page contains several errors. First, the definition of hypercoaster as "non-looping" is far from a consensus. You could note that some have classified it in that respect but I have certainly heard looping coasters (X, the original Steel Phanton, original SoB) referred to as hypercoasters. For example: in describing Son of Beast, thrillride notes: "And what an eyeful it is: the colossal lift hill of the world's first and only hyperwoodie." http://www.thrillride.com/sonofbeast/sob.html Also, there is no reason to suggest 299 feet as the maximum height for a hypercoaster. Although 300+ coasters have gained the designation "giga-coaster," they are hypercoasters as well. Finally, the Xcelerator at Knott's is frequently referred to in local media and by coaster riders as a hyper-coaster. If Top Thrill Dragster and Kingda Ka are strata-coasters, this certainly makes sense. So your definition is wrong on all three counts. More importantly, it misses the primary disqualifying factor, which is that it must be continuous circuit, thus why no one called Superman the Escape a strata coaster in 1996. A roller coaster, surely, but not one satisfying that definition. I suggest someone fix these errors or I may do it myself later. We'll see. Manx17 (talk) 19:55, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I finally got around to changing some things on this page. I expanded the definition but kept the original one, and updated the list as well as adding coasters that should rightly be considered hypercoasters. Clearly there is some debate about the definition of hypercoaster among coaster enthusiasts[2][3][4][5][6][7], but hopefully I've created a definition that satisfies everyone. Manx17 (talk) 06:18, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Also someone should add a citation to the quote "the greatest bust of all time" in reference to SOB, if not I will delete that whole section as it adds nothing to the article. Manx17 (talk) 06:21, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Since more than one of the coasters on the list, including Top Thrill Dragster and Kingda Ka, aren't hypercoasters sensu stricto, I went in and added an extra note for coasters that don't fit the strict definition of hypercoasters. No offense to anyone; it just struck me as something that ought to be done, and a better idea than arguing about "is or isn't". Just not sure how to classify the 4D coasters, since, given the way the ride vehicles themselves move, it's hard to say whether they properly invert or not. Could anyone help? Vanshira 22:33, 17 August 2012

It was definitely something that ought to have been done, thank you for that. I think 4th dimension coasters definitely should have the extra note because regardless of what the cars do their tracks invert. Manx17 (talk) 23:24, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Megacoaster

I can't see a hypercoaster being referred to anywhere as a "Megacoaster" since that term already refers to the wooden coasters in the Golden Age that topped 100 ft. It could be pretty confusing. Anyway if there's no reference for that I'm going to erase it. Gorman 05:45, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

"Megacoaster" is usually used as a reference to any coaster from 250 ft. to 299 ft., truly more of a term coined by Intamin for their Mega coasters (Superman: Ride of Steel, Expedition GeForce, etc.). B&M too has used the title of "Seed Coaster" for their earlier hyper coasters such as Apollo's Chariot and Silver Star.

It's best to play it safe and not confuse everyone and simply not mention the optional titles, as hyper has become rather universal nowadays. (Hyde244 14:58, 25 February 2007 (UTC))

B&M calls their version of hyper coasters "mega coasters", but some of these so called "mega coasters" do not reach 200 feet. So I'm not sure if it should be included in the article since it more so refers to B&M's style (the four across lap bar trains) of coaster.

Yes I have seen hypercoasters, specifically those manufactured by B&M, referred to as hypercoasters. But as the previous commenter ^ noted, they also use that term for smaller coasters, so there's no real reason to refer to it in the article. Manx17 (talk) 19:42, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

failure to meet qualifications

By definition, a hypercoaster must either be at least 200 feet tall, or feature an initial drop of at least 200 feet. Phantom's Revenge fails on both accounts.

It is easily possible for a terrain coaster to have an initial drop of less than 200 feet and a second drop of more than 200 feet. Such a coaster would meet the qualification. Dusso Janladde 06:06, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

A hypercoaster merely needs to contain a 200+ foot drop. There's no reason why it must be the initial drop. At 228 feet, Phantom's Revenge clearly qualifies. http://rcdb.com/123.htm Manx17 (talk) 19:40, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

"one of two things"

The opening paragraph states that "...hypercoaster can mean one of two things" but then gives only one definition, albeit one with three subsections.67.154.254.115 (talk) 17:52, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

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Lists in this article

There is a lot of original research floating around in this article, and I'm keen on removing it. One of the most glaring issues are the two lists. We don't have a secondary source that has tracked this, so unless someone knows of one, there's no way to consider these lists complete or accurate. Personal investigation in no way guarantees either. Furthermore, there is the burden of keeping it updated. Traffic is pretty low in this article as well, and I doubt new additions and old removals will be updated here as often as they should be. I propose removing both. --GoneIn60 (talk) 01:06, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

I went ahead and combined the two lists, since a reliable source was never provided to explain why we should separate shuttle coasters. There's no reliable way to ensure this new list is complete, however, so perhaps a disclaimer of sorts should be added. --GoneIn60 (talk) 15:25, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

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Giga Coaster

Giga is a model of coaster made by Intamin, the fact that it is over 300 feet is irrelevant. Just because B&M builds coasters over 300 feet tall does not make them Giga coasters. Zierer builds vertical lift coaster, but we don't call them Euro-Fighters. Gerstlauer makes vertical drop coasters, but we don't call them Dive Coasters. These are all manufacturer models, made by just that manufacturer. Gigas are made by Intamin, no one else.—JlACEer (talk) 17:40, 8 April 2020 (UTC) https://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com/coasters/new00/cp_millennium/cp_mf_pr.shtml

"Coaster rides are classified by the height and design of the track. A “megacoaster” generally has a complete circuit with a lift hill or drop between 200 feet (61 m) and 299 feet (91 m) high; the drop distance is local, not the overall change in height along the circuit. The world's first megacoaster was Magnum XL-200 at Cedar Point. The term “hypercoaster” can mean a megacoaster; but alternatively refers to a shuttle coaster that may not necessarily have such a high drop, lacks inversions and is designed for speed and airtime (negative G-forces).

A “gigacoaster” has a complete circuit, and a height of between 300 feet (91 m) and 399 feet (122 m). This was a marketing term coined in 2000 by Cedar Point in conjunction with ridemaker Intamin AG of Switzerland, for their coaster Millennium Force. A second gigacoaster Steel Dragon 2000, also opened in 2000 and held the record for world's longest roller coaster.

A “stratacoaster” (also from Intamin) has a complete circuit and a height between 400 feet (120 m) and 499 feet (152 m). The first stratacoaster (Top Thrill Dragster at Cedar Point) has a height of 420 feet (130 m) and opened in 2003. The second (Kingda Ka at Six Flags Great Adventure) has a height of 456 feet (139 m) and opened in 2005. 400-plus foot coaster[sic] had been built earlier (Tower of Terror, Dreamworld Australia; Superman: The Escape, Six Flags Magic Mountain) but are not considered stratacoasters because they shuttle and the ride altitude changes by only by 328 feet." https://patents.google.com/patent/US8332146B2/en

Straight from Millennium Force press release. "Millennium Force's statistics are staggering: with a monumental 310-foot-tall first hill at a 45-degree incline, speeds of 92 mph over 6,595 feet of track and a first drop of 300 feet at an extraordinary 80-degree angle, this mega-thriller will awe riders with its dynamic world-record-breaking dimensions. Termed a "giga-coaster" for its extreme height, Millennium Force will be the first and only roller coaster in the world to break the 300-foot-tall barrier." https://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com/coasters/new00/cp_millennium/cp_mf_pr.shtml

All are B&M Hyper Coaster models, but all are considered giga coasters, not hypercoasters. I am aware of the difference in model types. This article refers to hypercoasters, not (B&M) Hyper Coasters.

"Feel The Sting on the world's tallest and fastest giga coaster - Fury 325! Riders begin their adventure on one of three 32-passenger, open-air trains to the peak height of 325 feet - following a dramatic 81-degree drop. Then, like an angry hornet chasing its target, riders race into a massive 190-foot tall barrel turn and a high-speed S-curve reaching speeds of up to 95 mph." https://www.carowinds.com/play/rides/fury-325

"Thrill-seekers will experience a new level of excitement when they visit Kings Island in 2020. Joining the world-class line-up of roller coasters at the park is Orion®, one of only seven giga coasters in the world, a class of roller coasters having a height or drop of 300-399 feet." https://www.visitkingsisland.com/play/rides/orion

Intamin and Giavanola Mega Coasters are hypercoasters:

"Hypercoaster? I’d Like to Supersize That!

This mammoth steel construction is so intense they have to come up with a whole new category for it – the hyper twisted coaster. Hypercoasters are the modern breed of oversized roller coaster that are pumped up to more than 200 feet tall. Well, the Titan easily clears that distinction, with a mind-blowing 255-foot drop, and that’s just for starters. The drop is so massive, we’d forgive you if you were wishing this was just an ordinary hypercoaster right about now. But brace yourself for the twist: never before has a hypercoaster had such a twisted, gnarly track." https://www.sixflags.com/overtexas/attractions/titan

"Sometimes the term “roller coaster” just doesn’t cover it. Goliath is so fast they call this metal monster a “hypercoaster,” and within seconds you’ll know why. Hike in through the stony ruins of an ancient civilization – a time when great mythical beasts like the Goliath were feared. You may not find it so mythical as you’re getting dragged up that impossibly tall first hill, lifting you higher and higher. About halfway up this ridiculous height, even the toughest riders realize there’s no way out except to battle the beast. When you crest the top of that first hill, wave to the legendary Twisted Colossus – way down below you." https://www.sixflags.com/magicmountain/attractions/goliath

"Welcome to the world of the hypercoaster. This all-new category of roller coaster is so intense they had to come up with a whole new category for it. Hypercoasters are the modern breed of oversized roller coaster that are pumped up to more than 200 feet tall. SUPERMAN: Ride of Steel easily clears that distinction, with a height of 205 feet and a mind-blowing 200-foot drop." https://www.sixflags.com/america/attractions/superman-ride-steel

97.100.98.116 (talk) 19:44, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

What is confusing here is trying to determine exactly what you are proposing. This article's primary topic is hypercoasters, not giga or strata coasters. We already briefly mention giga and strata in the lead, and it is receiving necessary coverage per WP:DUE. What change would you like to see specifically? --GoneIn60 (talk) 13:55, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm confused as well. You seem to have done a lot of research, but we already know what hypercoasters are, so your Six Flags links are just reaffirming what is already in this article. We also know that the Cedar Fair marketing people like to toss around the word giga, that's nothing new. The patent entry really has me confused, it seems to be pages and pages of text, and I have no idea what it is they actually patented — a device to characterize coasters? Despite the fact the there was a patent granted, I find the whole entry bordering on absurdity. It is also the only time I have ever seen gigacoaster and stratacoaster used as one word that alone makes me want to dismiss that citation as not coming from a reliable source. I also think that the hyper, giga, strata coaster terminology is already well explained on the page Roller coaster. Despite all the above entries I see no reliable evidence to support your statement that "a gigacoaster is not a hypercoaster, and a stratacoaster is not a gigacoaster."—JlACEer (talk) 16:35, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

I have removed or at least attempted to remove my post since apparently my sources continue to be unreliable. I no longer wish to participate in this discussion. Thank you. Good day.

97.100.98.116 (talk) 16:25, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

I restored your post, since it should remain after another editor has responded to it. Hopefully this doesn't discourage you from contributing on Wikipedia. There's plenty of cleanup needed in amusement park articles, so feel free to help in any way you can. If you ever have any questions, feel free to drop one of us a line at our talk page. --GoneIn60 (talk) 22:05, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Merger Proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To merge Hyper Coaster (B&M model) into Hypercoaster for reasons of context, overlap and short text. Klbrain (talk) 11:29, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

---

I propose merging Hyper Coaster (B&M model) into Hypercoaster. I think the content in the former article is coextensive with a lot of the content in the Hypercoaster article, and it would be beneficial to reincorporate the B&M-specific article into here. GWR 2019 (talk) 08:34, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

•Support. You will see from my previous comments that I never thought a separate Hyper Coaster (B&M model) article should never have been created in the first place.—JlACEer (talk) 15:34, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Support, I do also concur with the ideas listed. Content from the B&M article would be better suited in the general hypercoaster article. Adog (Talk・Cont) 18:11, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Weak support I would like to see how the B&M article contents would be incorporated into this article without giving them undue weight, as there would not be similar commentary for other hypercoaster manufacturers. --McDoobAU93 13:17, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Support – There are multiple ways to do the merge, but I don't think B&M needs its own article at this time. Concerns of WP:UNDUE can be remedied by expanding coverage for the other manufacturers. Pretty sure there's plenty out there we can add to balance this article out after the merge. --GoneIn60 (talk) 03:42, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Oppose given the undue weight argument alluded to above. Perhaps this could be avoided with the alternative target, Bolliger & Mabillard (the manufacturer of the product). Klbrain (talk) 18:54, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

That alternative could give undue weight to the hyper coaster model on the B&M page. B&M produces nine different coaster models and hyper coaster is not even B&M's most prolific design.—JlACEer (talk) 21:26, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

B&M’s hypers are a specific mode notable enough for a given page. Eg224 (talk) 17:36, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Support merge. I'm not really convinced of the argument that a B&M hyper is different than a hyper made by Intamin, Arrow Dynamics, or another company. Not only that, but the B&M Hyper article overlaps quite a bit with the main hypercoaster article - all of the coasters listed in Hyper Coaster (B&M model)#Installations are also listed in this article. Of the facts not already in the main hypercoaster article, these consist largely of trivia like It was one of the two models released in 1999. The other being the Floorless Coaster. It was made in a similar style to the TOGO, D. H. Morgan Manufacturing and Arrow Dynamics hypercoasters. Now it has become one of the more preferred models with a success rate second only to the Inverted Coaster. The only thing that is salvageable from the Hyper Coaster (B&M model) page might be the "Golden Ticket Awards" section, but even then, I'm not sure that we should put undue emphasis on B&M hypers winning GTAs. The undue weight concern could be solved by simply redirecting the B&M Hyper article to the hypercoaster article and expanding coverage about non-B&M hypers winning GTAs. – Epicgenius (talk) 18:32, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 11:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)