Talk:Huorn

I seem to remember it being mentioned in the books that they were extremely fierce. Is there any truth to this? If so, I believe it should be added.

They had some awareness of their forest's situation and the attitudes of other beings, and were not happy at all. --Kizor 19:49, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

From Karo6:

Yes, the Huorns are depicted as being "queer, wild, and dangeous" and this seems to be a significant aspect of the Huorn character.

Some additional information that might be useful concerning Huorns:

Huorns are very peculiar creatures, and I'm not sure Tolkien ever systematized them fully in his own mind. They are some sort of subordinate "tree shepherds," under the general direction of the "true" Ents. They are chiefly defined in "Unfinished Tales," (index p. 446 hb version) as "trees" that can move on their own volition, and are able to speak with the Ents. In a late (about 1956, and so post LotR) addition to "The Silmarillion," (see "Of Aule and Yavanna," p. 43-46 hb version) we have the information that the Ents were originally numbered among those disembodied spirits that were sent to dwell in some animals ("kelvar" ) and some plants ("olvar" ). Apparently these were to be on the side of "good," not like the originally evil spirit that came to dwell in the Great Willow of the Old Forest. But, even though they were nominally listed among the "good," these Ent-spirits could act in justified anger against those who attacked trees: The Ents shall "be held in reverence, and their just anger shall be feared." ("The Silmarillion," hb ver. p. 46)

But whether or not the Huorns were also spirits like the Ents, only less powerful, is not made clear. I have always assumed that this was the case, that Huorns were also originally "unassigned" disembodied spirits that were later planted by Yavanna in trees, but I have no confirmation for this speculation.

I am also wondering if Huorns were a late addition to LotR, as they are not mentioned (not that I could find) in chapter Four of Book III in "The Two Towers." To my knowledge they first appear in chapter 9 "Flotsam and Jetsam," TT pp 170 ff, where no truly definitive statements are made, and we get our understanding of Huorns "second-hand" from Merry, who seems uncertain in his own understanding of what Treebeard told him regarding Huorns:

"It was then that I first had the feeling that the Forest itself was moving behind us. I thought I was dreaming an entish dream, but Pippin noticed it too. ... It was the Huorns, or so the Ents call them in 'short language'. Treebeard won't say much about them, but I think they are Ents that have become almost like trees, at least to look at. ... in the darkest Dales there are hundreds and hundreds of them, I believe. There is a great power in them, and they seem able to wrap themselves in shadow: it is difficult to see them moving. ... They still have voices, and can speak with the Ents -- that is why they are called Huorns, Treebeard says -- but they have become queer and wild. Dangerous. I should be terrified of meeting them, if there were no true Ents about to look after them." (TT, chpt. 9, hb ver. p170)

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From the early versions of TT Book III, chapters 4 ("Treebeard" ) and 9, ("Flotsam and Jetsam").

In the HOME volumes for the "History of the Lord of the Rings," part 2 "The Treason of Isengard," pp 411- 21, we have an early version of TT, chpt 4, "Treebeard." Here Treebeard says that there are no Ents in The Old Forest, but he does not tell us whether or not Huorns might be found there: "Anyway they have no treeherds there [in thev Old Forest by Buckland], no one to care for them [the trees of the Old Forest]: it is a long, long time since the Ents walked away from the banks of the Baranduin." (HLotR, part 2, p. 416)

There is also some interesting collateral information on page 416, concerning Tom Bombadil: "Tombombadil? So that is what you call him. Oh, he has got a very long name. He understands trees, right enough; but he is not an Ent. He is no herdsman. He laughs and does not interfere. He never made anything go wrong, but he never cured anything, either." (HLotR, part 2, p. 416) This quote seems to stress even more than the published LotR, the "neutral" nature of Tom Bombadil.

In the history of the Lord of the Rings, part 3 "The War of the Ring," there is an early version of "Flotsam and Jetsam," where we may see the actual "birth" of the Huorns. JRRT needed more re-inforcements to send after the Orc horde of Sauruman. Apparently he was toying with the idea of simply multiplying the number of Ents in the story and then sending an army of "true" Ents to destroy the Orcs. "Shall there be more real Ents?" p. 49. A bit later on, he seems to have decided that he had enough Ents, and started toying with the idea of having an army of trees that could walk and pursue the Orcs. Here, JRRT even had a mechanism for their locomotion: "The Ents sent a force of walking trees (with split trunks). They crept on in darkness following the victorious orcs." (HLotR, part 3 "The War of the Ring," p. 49) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Karo6 (talk • contribs) 21:19, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

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Needs a lot of work:

• Infobox;
• Their origins need to be expanded;
• Significance needs to be sorted although they are important;
• Relation to Ents, and how they differ from common trees needs to be outlined;
• Needs more (reliable) referances.

Other than that the article is fine. IT has to expanded generally. LOTRrules (talk) 23:35, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation

As an english speaker, the diphthong [uo] is very difficult and it unclear when the letter u is used as a [w] or similar.

From looking at various translations of tolkien's works here, it appears that the pronunciation is similar to /'huoɹn/, /xuoɹn/ or similar. This is from my knowledge of other languages, where Greek uses ού for ['u] and Χ as the closest approximate to [h] and other languages with the absence of [u], use [y] as a close approximate. I would say finnish should be one to look at, but I am unsure when the letter u is used for [u] and when for [w], such as Suomi, pronounced /swo../ Sorry, this was me, 2001:8003:AC39:6F00:743C:85B7:20AC:9FD5 (talk) 14:06, 23 May 2019 (UTC)